DNR belle isle reports

[corktownyuppie]

When we give LawKeepers too much power, that balance most surely tips...too far.

If there is one place where one can argue that lawkeepers do not have enough power, it's Detroit.

I'm generally sympathetic to the Jean Valjean arguments. And when despicable things happen, such as the GPP Police incident with the developmentally disabled man or the DNR grafitti afficianado come to light, I'm the first to raise holy hell.

But to say that these victims of heavy-handed DNR enforcement should be eliminated from Belle Isle is the biggest understatement in the debate so far. Not only should they not be on Belle Isle, they shouldn't even be allowed out in public.

There's a lot that is broken in Detroit. It's a battlefield in every sense of the word. But you can't send medics out there unless they're safe, so the first thing you need to do is establish some standards for behavior.

There is a time and place to argue for the rights of the underprivileged and marginalized. And there's no shortage of those times and places in Detroit...whether it be schools failing kids, buses failing residents, etc.

But this isn't that time. You don't whistle your way out the door, trip over the sidewalk, and accidentally have your driver's license suspended 18 times.

The kicker is that I don't even have a problem with him being on Belle Isle! Just tell him to hitch a ride with a friend, take his bike, or drive illegally down Jefferson, park on Mt. Elliot, and walk onto the park.

[Gannon]

I really think not allowing open alcohol containers...or any alcohol...is a huge mistake, and the breaking point for this whole deal.

I'd like to study how many State Parks were created out of wilderness, or unused property...and how many were take-overs like this? Surely this is virginal ground for the DNR...

[Eber Brock Ward]

During Pingree's time, he and Robert Oakman met up often to drink beers into the sunset. You can bet your bottom dollar they drove themselves home.

Unlikely. Charles Brady King didn't take the first car onto the streets of Detroit until March 6, 1986. Pingree began his term as governor less than a year later and was forced to resign as mayor not long after that.

Just calm down, homie. We're a LONG way from all that you're worried about, and we need a lot more enforcement to even just approach normalcy.

It will be interesting to see if this leads to a culture clash as Gannon hints at causing park usage to decline or if the reaction will be 'it's about time' and island population will swell with the perceived security.

I think they'll largely offset. Lots of new users will come on board, but lots of unsavory types will go somewhere else where they can break the laws with impunity.

[compn]

a lot of the state park rules seem to be creating a day-care environment. the problem is adults want to have adult fun sometimes and yet are being treated as if they were children.

why is the park closed at sunset? cant have any fun after sunset?

complaints about littering?
littering is a max $500 ticket in michigan.
are there any littering tickets in the belle isle reports? i dont see any. why not?

also, i'm betting a large population of people does not know who is running the park or any park hour information. is there a sign now that says park closed at dusk ?

[Dan Wesson]

The worst would be a return of that ugly 'race riot spirit' that spawned that fight on the bridge back in '43. I strongly feel that the troubles in this town are spiritually based...and this one is unfortunately overdue to return.

I don't WANT to see it, I am only commenting on the trend I feel developing.

I see the same thing in all the comment sections of news sites that carry crime storys that involve "Detroiters".

The verbal response to lawlessness is escalating in anger and disgust. If it gets worse... it could be open season.

[Gannon]

I see the same thing in all the comment sections of news sites that carry crime storys that involve "Detroiters".

The verbal response to lawlessness is escalating in anger and disgust. If it gets worse... it could be open season.

Add to that the entrenched lawlessness at the street level...that is what I'm talking about. Increasing polarization...everyone on all sides feeling righteous.

[Gannon]

Unlikely. Charles Brady King didn't take the first car onto the streets of Detroit until March 6, 1986. Pingree began his term as governor less than a year later and was forced to resign as mayor not long after that.

Just calm down, homie. We're a LONG way from all that you're worried about, and we need a lot more enforcement to even just approach normalcy.



I think they'll largely offset. Lots of new users will come on board, but lots of unsavory types will go somewhere else where they can break the laws with impunity.

I just remember reading an anecdote in a Robert Oakman history, a fellow near and dear to my native experience...since my formative years were in the middle of the Aviation Subdivision. Wish I could find it.


Thanks for being a voice of reason. Wish I could be as hopeful...but I'm chewing on those verbal morsels of yours...

[Gannon]

a lot of the state park rules seem to be creating a day-care environment. the problem is adults want to have adult fun sometimes and yet are being treated as if they were children.

why is the park closed at sunset? cant have any fun after sunset?

complaints about littering?
littering is a max $500 ticket in michigan.
are there any littering tickets in the belle isle reports? i dont see any. why not?

also, i'm betting a large population of people does not know who is running the park or any park hour information. is there a sign now that says park closed at dusk ?

Absolutely on all accounts.

The original Detroit park rules are posted in a few places around the island, though, and I'm pretty sure they have times posted. The sign on the Canadian side got hit by someone during the Winter, though. Half-knocked down. There is irony somewhere with that...or commentary. Or both.

cheers!

[Eber Brock Ward]

Yeah, Gannon, I think the last thing we want is a state of being where you can't even spit on the ground without getting a ticket.

But at the end of the day, there's "allowing people to be free spirits" and "outright lawlessness." I think most people are cool with the former but can't stand the latter, and for as many free spirits like you as there are that cause no harm [[and maybe even improve things!), there are many more that are true criminals and a real danger that we have to clear out first.

[Gannon]

I cannot disagree with most of that...but it is where we draw the line, and how the terms are defined.

For every visit I've made to the island, which over decades has been groomed away from Friday and Saturday nights, all I've encountered have been those making the place better. Waves and smiles in the morning from everyone, including those Detroit Cops who started walking the perimeter last year.

The magnet for the MOST free-spirited folk is Freak Beach, I am very curious what will happen back there this year. I would much rather the State allow a few of the regulars to get lifeguard training than play 'chase-away' all Summer.

There are ways to make this work, I just don't see the administration headed in that direction at all. It was a mistake for the State to take over an established City park. A huge mistake to lose local control.

Duggan's team would very likely have brought things back in line, as far as the extreme lawbreakers on the island...without all of this heavy-handed bullshit.

[Gannon]

btw, if anyone is lusting after some of that wood that was cut down, there are permits available for gleaning off the stack before they clear it away.

Taking down sick trees...finding that cadaver by the old golf course...there HAVE been a few positives with this take-over. Lotsa white dudes in white vans got work, too. So far, I've NOT seen a single LEO of color, now that I think of it.

Not a one.


h-m-m-m-n-n-n

[gnome]

John, as a new father I would think you would want a safe and healthy environment for your little one.

Congratulations again, by the way. When is the briss?

[Gannon]

It is now April 2nd, Gnomeister!

[noise]

If I cannot have business meetings in a pleasant setting with an adult beverage, then it is not the traditional park.

Good riddance to this, as far as I'm concerned.

[Detroitnerd]

And find a little nook at Pier Park or Neff Park and have sex in your car.

I wondered why you were sitting in your car all alone over there ...

[JDKeepsmiling]

The best one by far:

On a Belle Isle patrol after the recent snow storm, COs Ken Kovach and Bob Hobkirk spent most of the shift assisting disabled motorists. One subject who kept getting stuck after the pair would push him out finally was able to get off the island. The following day, he left a fruit basket on the island to show his appreciation for the officers’ hard

work.

[townonenorth]

During Pingree's time, he and Robert Oakman met up often to drink beers into the sunset. You can bet your bottom dollar they drove themselves home.

I brought them up because I keep hearing how folks want to get back to the 'old' Belle Isle. If I cannot have business meetings in a pleasant setting with an adult beverage, then it is not the traditional park.

H-m-m-n-n, I sense a bit of ASSumption in your post...where do you get that I'm trying to break any laws? I'm merely trying to keep the law as servant of the people, not the other way around. When we give LawKeepers too much power, that balance most surely tips...too far.

[[.08 or even .1 BAC is too far, IMHO, but that's what happens when you let insurance companies write the laws)

When it does, there are always back-lashes...always. What do you think foments revolution?!


Cheers from Sunny GPP...and puh-LEASE...I don't smoke 'doobs'. And I don't have to go to a park to enjoy myself.

Citation on that first quote, please. I'd need a contemporary account of this actually happening to believe it, sadly.

The fact that you seem to be unable to have "business meetings" at the park without an "adult beverage" troubles me. You should look into that.

I've read a lot of your posts, and most of them involve breaking some sort of law. Granted the laws that are being broken may be unjustified at times, but that's for another thread. The problem here lies within your expectations and the fact that Detroit is finally becoming a real CITY again, versus a playground for lawbreakers. I'd invite your "business ASSociates" to come to your home and sit in the backyard and swill beer, versus drinking and driving on the streets of Detroit and GPP endangering others.

I'd venture to say that a significant amount of Detroiters don't believe in your philosophy. Most may just want a city that allows you to go to Belle Isle without dealing with drunks and addicts, and with a reasonable expectation of getting home in one piece without being broadsided by a drunk, addict, or just a generic drug addled driver.

The park rules haven't changed. The enforcement has. Read here:

Park Rules

What are the park rules?

To ensure a smooth and seamless transition to Belle Isle as a state park, the DNR has adopted the current island park rules, which are similar to other state park rules and regulations. Assessment of the park's rules and procedures will occur throughout 2014 to better understand the island's use and determine the best means for providing a clean and safe environment, while meeting the needs of visitors.
What are park hours?

Park hours remain unchanged; 6 a.m. to 10 p.m.
State park staff, including a park supervisor, rangers and support staff, will offer a heightened customer-service presence on the island during these hours of operation.
Patrons attending special events that commence after 10 p.m. are asked to immediately leave the island at the conclusion of the event.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7...5---,00.html#5

And, there's always this gem:

When it does, there are always back-lashes...always. What do you think foments revolution?!

I'd have to hand it to you, you always play the "dumb ass" card when it comes to shit like this. First, it was the EFM that would rile the masses into revolt. Next, this, which in the larger scheme of things seems to just bother a select few that have SOMEHOW had their rights trampled on. Yet, elsewhere in the city, the lights are coming on, crime is beginning to be deterred through raids and other means, and you want a revolution because you can't drink and smoke a joint in a public park. Priceless.

[noise]

Bravo, townonenorth.

[corktownyuppie]

Went to Belle Isle today, for first time since DNR operations.

[[1) Agree that the police presence is, intense. Border patrol cop followed me as I did 19 mph halfway around the island and then continued on after me. Not my favorite thing, I'll admit. But I played by the rules and he left me alone.

[[2) I saw an attractive, white woman in her 20s-30s pulled over by both DNR and MSP. She stood out -- in the rain -- while police did a thorough search of her car. I don't know what she did to deserve the stop, nor what probable cause prompted the search. But there's no question that police are not giving anyone any free rides.

I hope that they loosen up...just a little bit. But given the choice between being too stern vs. being too easy, I'll take too stern. They are definitely no-nonsense, and I'm cool with that.

[SWMAP]

Was everyone followed? Were many cars being searched?Are MOST people allowed to move freely, or not?When Gannon described the "trashed" Strand the other day, I inferred little official oversight of Park-goers.

[corktownyuppie]

In fairness to people coming to the park this year with the new changes in operations, I wouldn't object to having MSP greeting everyone at the entrance and just printing a short one-page summary of the rules along with some of the examples of how you end up getting in trouble.

In my mind, the purpose of the enforcement is not to truck people off to jail. It's also not to change who comes onto the island. It's to change how people behave when they come on.

Because seriously????

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...4_452598_7.pdf

While working a shift on Belle Isle, CO Brandon Kieft investigated a vehicle that was stopped in the middle on the roadway. The driver stopped in the roadway so his passenger could step out and urinate. The vehicle was stopped for impeding traffic and the driver was in possession of numerous open containers of alcohol. CO Damon Owens assisted on this stop as well. Enforcement action was taken.

[compn]

to be fair, most bathrooms in parks, even in royal oak and troy, arent open yet.
they remove the garbage cans in winter, so theres piles of dog poo bags too.

i know public urination is the most dastardly crime ever, but when ya gotta go, you gotta go.

[SWMAP]

Public urination IS a filthy thing. It is inconceivable that you would excuse it. I cannot think of a circumstance that would make it necessary to just "step out" and urinate in a public place.
Bit, I am reminded that there has been a great concern that the special Belle Isle "culture" that has evolved over the past few decades be indulged.
I think Sam Riddle was right - the ONLY difference between Detroit and third world countries is that we don't have goats in our streets.

[corktownyuppie]

i know public urination is the most dastardly crime ever, but when ya gotta go, you gotta go.

It's not about how serious the crime is. We're trying to change the culture of Belle Isle into a family friendly place that is safe and clean.

I was golfing at Chandler Park once when I had to pee. I still made the effort to walk over to the side and try to be as discreet as possible.

Stopping your car in the middle of the street and then just taking a whizz? Couldn't even pull over to the shoulder and walk be hind a tree? Cmon.

[Cliffy]

Glad the DNR and State Police are not playing games and are being intense. The whole city needs to be policed like that. Tired of people sticking up for stoners and drunks and all the other losers. How about the people that want to go to the park and feel safe and enjoy nature and the river.