Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

[emu steve]

^^^This is really what the last minute change boils down to.

Gilbert / Gores aren't stupid [[at least I don't think they are). Ford Field meets almost none of the requirements and/or preferences that the MLS has for Soccer Stadiums. That's why it wasn't seriously considered as an option before.

This is basically a "hail mary!" by them in light of pressure from Don Garber to hurry up so that selections can be made.

You can thank Wayne County if Detroit isn't selected for a MLS franchise.

Agree 100% with 313WX.

It is "S*it or get off the can" for Detroit's bid. Detroit's bid is 'constipated' because no decision has been made by Wayne County.

To cause the bid 'to move' it was necessary for Detroit's owners to indicate a playing site.

As I indicated earlier, I really think it would be a temporary site. Kind of like: Ford Field 2020 - TBD. New stadium: TBD.

The 'downside' for MLS is that they are being asked to approve a bid where the long term location of a stadium is not known.

In fairness to all involved, the holdup as indicated is with Wayne County, not Gores-Gilbert-Ford.

Fords are trying to save this bid. W/out their help, the bid would probably need to be withdrawn.

[swingline]

The ESPN soccer writer thinks that the switch to Ford Field has hurt the Detroit bid. He has Sacramento, Nashville and Cincinnati in front of Detroit. http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-s...-and-favorites

[Atticus]

The ESPN soccer writer thinks that the switch to Ford Field has hurt the Detroit bid. He has Sacramento, Nashville and Cincinnati in front of Detroit. http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-s...-and-favorites

He is probably right. Especially if those three cities all have taxpayers willing to subsidize a portion of the cost of their respective stadiums.

To me, that is the other part of the Detroit story. Simply put, I don't see how they would have gotten taxpayer funding to cover a portion of the Detroit MLS stadium. I don't the political will is there to do that. And if that is the case, Gilbert and Gores would have been on the hook for 100% of the stadium construction cost.

And if Gilbert and Gores had to pay for 100% of the stadium, I just don't know if the numbers add up to profitability [[or even breaking even) from the business side.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I think the espn guy is right, since a [[presumably) permanent presence at Ford Field would not include the league preference for a soccer-specific stadium. That would presumably put Detroit out of the first round. However, I would not say all is lost. First, MLS definitely would want to be in Detroit, as the largest DMA without an MLS team, a rich soccer environment here, and loads of potential corporate sponsors in the Detroit area. Detroit wants an MLS franchise, but make no mistake, MLS wants Detroit, too. That is not altered by the change of venue. Also, with a permanent home identified and ready for play, there would be nothing temporary about picking Detroit. As other cities in MLS have shown, it can take years [[or more than a decade) to actually get the stadium approved, financed and built. See NYCFC, Miami team, and DC United as examples. So while the other cities seem "ahead" of Detroit on a stadium, in reality they might also play at a non-preferred venue for years and years. Detroit had, in my opinion, a perfect bid with a soccer stadium. Now we merely have a good bid.

If we still get a franchise [[now or in 2 years), and if Gilbert-Gores does get and redevelop the jail site, I think the venue switch is actually better than the soccer stadium plan for the city. Here's to hoping!

[emu steve]

I think the espn guy is right, since a [[presumably) permanent presence at Ford Field would not include the league preference for a soccer-specific stadium. That would presumably put Detroit out of the first round. However, I would not say all is lost. First, MLS definitely would want to be in Detroit, as the largest DMA without an MLS team, a rich soccer environment here, and loads of potential corporate sponsors in the Detroit area. Detroit wants an MLS franchise, but make no mistake, MLS wants Detroit, too. That is not altered by the change of venue. Also, with a permanent home identified and ready for play, there would be nothing temporary about picking Detroit. As other cities in MLS have shown, it can take years [[or more than a decade) to actually get the stadium approved, financed and built. See NYCFC, Miami team, and DC United as examples. So while the other cities seem "ahead" of Detroit on a stadium, in reality they might also play at a non-preferred venue for years and years. Detroit had, in my opinion, a perfect bid with a soccer stadium. Now we merely have a good bid.

If we still get a franchise [[now or in 2 years), and if Gilbert-Gores does get and redevelop the jail site, I think the venue switch is actually better than the soccer stadium plan for the city. Here's to hoping!

My current feeling:

MLS will pass on Detroit for 2020 and will consider it in the 2022 round which gives the Gilbert-Gores-Ford group the opportunity to come up with a new site.

As indicated above, this is not a loss for Detroit in that the jail site will have more traditional development and not mix a stadium with other development.

I also see kind of a 'hold' on searching for a new site until Detroit learns in December if it is still in the running for HQ2.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

My current feeling:

MLS will pass on Detroit for 2020 and will consider it in the 2022 round which gives the Gilbert-Gores-Ford group the opportunity to come up with a new site.

As indicated above, this is not a loss for Detroit in that the jail site will have more traditional development and not mix a stadium with other development.

I also see kind of a 'hold' on searching for a new site until Detroit learns in December if it is still in the running for HQ2.

I doubt that the GilbertGoresFord team would seek out a different location for a stadium. The cost & effort for the stadium are really only justified if it is downtown. While it could certainly be built cheaper elsewhere, what would be the point? The developers have not indicated a big desire to take on projects outside of downtown. And they want to use a stadium to feed foot traffic and drive property values in the greater downtown/midtown area. I can't think of another spot in downtown-midtown that could realistically work. Few parcels large enough without something else already there or underway. Also, I don't think the Fords would bother joining up if they weren't going to be housing the team. I think Detroit's MLS future no longer involves a new stadium. Not a huge loss [[although there are certainly some events Detroit won't host without it), as long as it doesn't cost us the franchise. Sadly, if we aren't awarded a franchise for either year, we'll never get told for sure if we would have had one had we had a stadium. As I posted earlier, though, I think the case for MLS locating in Detroit is still a strong one.

FWIW, I must reiterate my thought that Detroit will not be getting HQ2. Not a knock on us, but we are not likely the preferred city, even assuming Jeff Bezos didn't already know where he wants to land. Which, I must say, he certainly does. They are just milking out all the tax incentives and bribes they can from whichever city it is they want to locate it. That's good business, but not an open competition.

[Atticus]

I doubt that the GilbertGoresFord team would seek out a different location for a stadium. The cost & effort for the stadium are really only justified if it is downtown. While it could certainly be built cheaper elsewhere, what would be the point? The developers have not indicated a big desire to take on projects outside of downtown. And they want to use a stadium to feed foot traffic and drive property values in the greater downtown/midtown area. I can't think of another spot in downtown-midtown that could realistically work. Few parcels large enough without something else already there or underway. Also, I don't think the Fords would bother joining up if they weren't going to be housing the team. I think Detroit's MLS future no longer involves a new stadium. Not a huge loss [[although there are certainly some events Detroit won't host without it), as long as it doesn't cost us the franchise. Sadly, if we aren't awarded a franchise for either year, we'll never get told for sure if we would have had one had we had a stadium. As I posted earlier, though, I think the case for MLS locating in Detroit is still a strong one.

FWIW, I must reiterate my thought that Detroit will not be getting HQ2. Not a knock on us, but we are not likely the preferred city, even assuming Jeff Bezos didn't already know where he wants to land. Which, I must say, he certainly does. They are just milking out all the tax incentives and bribes they can from whichever city it is they want to locate it. That's good business, but not an open competition.

I agree with most of this. As for Amazon, I just don’t see it here. Just about every major city put in a bid, with many thowing Amazon everything but the kitchen sink in terms of tax packages and incentives. Detroit would have an uphill battle winning the HQ2 on a level playing field, let alone competing against markets giving Amazon tons of money.

As for MLS, they’d be foolish not to take Sacramento and Nashville given how much taxpayers in those cities are willing to spend to get a soccer specific stadium. No question Detroit is the most desirable market, but Ford Field is not going to get Detroit one of the first two spots. It will be interesting to see if Detroit will get one of the last two spots, or if some additional markets eventually agree to tax payer funded stadiums as well.

[Gistok]

Here's my take on the Fail-Jail site if MLS goes to Ford Field. If [[as is likely) Detroit is not chosen for Amazon HQ2, then I think Gilbert may opt to build a new Greektown [[Jack) Casino.

Right now Greektown Casino is the smallest of the 3 casinos in revenue... MGM has 41%, MotorCity has 33% and Greektown has 24% of the Detroit Casino pie. I could see Gilbert wanting a new casino. Greektown proper was not a good place for building out a casino, and the revenues bear that out.

I think that a new casino going on the Fail-Jail site still leaves room for other developments... and the casino could be built adjacent to the existing hotel and parking structure. What to do with the existing casino, if they moved to a more impressive building? Don't know... but Gilbert has had plenty of ideas and plans to tie in the area from Campus Martius to Greektown.

How woud Gores fit into this plan? Not really sure. But the idea of more office space away from the Campus Martius core of the city is a bit troubling... especially if the Hudson and Monroe blocks get more office space. Not saying it can't be done... but growing office space faster than demand could be troubling to the downtown office market.

I'm not saying that a new casino site is a plan... just a possibility.

[emu steve]

Gistok, I would agree that it should be considered a possibility.

Long before I joined this forum I really hoped that the 3rd casino would go to the jail site.

My logic then is the same as it is today: Something big, impressive needs to be there as a 'gateway' to the downtown from the east.

And a jail sends the wrong message...

[hybridy]

Long before I joined this forum I really hoped that the 3rd casino would go to the jail site.

same level of street activity with both though. mixed use always a better idea

[Zads07]

I for one am glad Detroit has dropped in the predictions. It's absolutely ridiculous the MLS wants a soccer specific stadium if the infrastructure is already there in cities that are bidding.

[K-slice]

I for one am glad Detroit has dropped in the predictions. It's absolutely ridiculous the MLS wants a soccer specific stadium if the infrastructure is already there in cities that are bidding.

Agreed. MLS's interests are arbitrary and do not take into account what may or may not be best for the individual city. Another stadium to sit empty 99% of the time in the CBD is certainly not in the best interest of Detroit.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I think MLS's goal with the soccer specific stadium requirement/preference is for a few reasons. First, getting local groups with the financial, political and administrative wherewithall to get a large, pro soccer stadium built helps weed out the unserious and unprepared franchisees. Second, the substantial commitment of money [[hundreds of millions) makes said franchisee in it for the long haul. And lastly, maybe most importantly, as MLS tries to make the Fifth Sport big on the level of the Big Four Sports, piggybacking onto someone else's home turf seems like less than a ringing endorsement of soccer as a core American pastime.

Gistok, I had never thought of a casino going to the Fail Jail site. Interesting idea. It would cast a little bit of light on the seemingly abrupt decision a year or so ago to scrap the substantial reno/upgrade of the existing Greektown casino. And the current casino site would not lay dormant. In fact, a new Trapper's Alley shopping center could actually work there now, since there are people downtown now, as opposed to when it opened back in the 80s. Also note: I think, regardless of what [[if anything) happens to Greektown/Jack Casino, I fully expect each of Detroit's casinos to build adjoining hotels, possibly with distinctive branding. Since Greektown Casino is nice but not luxurious in any way, I can see them adding a 200-room hotel with higher end amenities and spa, which they do not currently have. MGM Grand could launch a more economical property. Many possibilities for each. They are doing gangbusters business [[tons of dates are blacked out every month). They would be foolish not to expand, both to make money directly off of the hotels and to feed the casinos, restaurants, clubs and retailers therein.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Mikey's new bold prediction:

DETROIT WILL BE AWARDED AN MLS FRANCHISE THIS DECEMBER
First off, read this article.

https://www.thebluetestament.com/201...power-rankings

This article does not actually think Detroit will be awarded in this round [[it lists Detroit as fifth in the competing cities, fourth if you don't count Miami which was sort of already awarded a franchise, but has been unable to finalize stadium and other details), although it identifies Detroit as a real dark house. But there are some nuggets of information, combined with the recent inclusion of the Fords and the switch to Ford Field which lead me to think Detroit will actually get the nod, and in this round. Here's why...

Sacramento has, by all accounts, more or less secured one of the two franchises up in this round. Among many other reasons, their soccer stadium is already underway [[boy, would it suck for them if they don't get it!). But no other teams have a stadium actually under construction. Some, including Nashville, have advanced plans, but are at least 2 years out from being ready to play. Detroit has an advantage there: our permanent park is ready and able to host tomorrow. In fact, the article states a Detroit team could start play in 2019. If, as the article suggests, Nashville and Cincinnati were to get the following round's 2 slots, they would have a chance to have a completed park for when they were to begin play in 2022. No urgent push by MLS to get them to start play in 2020. A ready, acceptable stadium for a preferred market [[we are the largest market vying for a franchise) is a ahead of a considerably smaller market with a terrific blueprint for a soccer specific stadium. MLS will go for the sure thing first, I think.

This next reason is really the big one, I think. 2 of Detroit's 3 billionaire would-be MLS owners are firms [[or individuals attached to firms) which spend a great deal of money on sports sponsorship and advertising. Quicken Loans and Ford, I would suspect, buy more TV ads than any other corporate entity tied to MLS ownership. Further integrating the league with big business money will make broadcast rights significantly more valuable, which will benefit all the owners and other stakeholders in MLS. MLS wants to be a big league, and big leagues need big revenue. And, I will write yet again, we are the largest market in contention. We have lots of corporate citizens who might sponsor our team, or partner with MLS on league-wide sponsorships.

Lastly, I think MLS harbors secret hopes that Detroit can become a real soccer mecca. Like Seattle, we can use the NFL stadium to bring in a bigger crowd than average MLS stadium would allow. I would expect a push by the Fords and the Pistons to push ticket packages on their own season ticket holders, probably at a discount. Also, like Atlanta United just yesterday announcing the establishment of a real, European-style soccer academy, Gilbert & Co have expressed a desire to invest in soccer in the community. I think they could sponsor DCFC becoming an affiliated USL team, with several different amateur teams and clinics operating under the Detroit MLS franchise umbrella. I would expect they would also, as part of the bid commitment, invest in soccer fields, equipment and training for youth soccer in the city.

MLS owners meet December 14. The article I linked to expects an announcement on December 19th or 20th. I think we are up for good news.

[Downriviera]

Chicago Fire played at Soldier Field before their own stadium was built so it has been done before.

[dtowncitylover]

I just received a push notification from the Free Press that we've been named a finalist city.

[Lowell]

Yep, me too, via Crains:

Detroit has been named one of four finalist cities for two Major League Soccer expansion teams.

The team behind the Detroit bid, Dan Gilbert and Tom Gores, are scheduled to make formal presentations to MLS Commissioner Don Garber on Dec. 6 in New York, according to a Wednesday post on MLSsoccer.com.

Winning cities are expected to be announced before the end of the year.

The other competing cities are Cincinnati, Nashville and Sacramento. The finalists are among 12 markets that submitted bids in January for expansion teams.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...expansion-team

Being the largest Metro among the contenders, plus a border city, one would think give us an inside track.

[mtburb]

I just received a push notification from the Free Press that we've been named a finalist city.

What with Ford Field now being the home stadium since the soccer-specific stadium plans have been scrapped, I'm all-out surprised by this.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I think we will get a franchise next month. The fact that we're a finalist indicates to me that the overall excellence of our bid plus all the money that Ford and Quicken could [[potentially) direct to advertising and sponsorship outweigh not playing in a soccer-specific stadium. There is no risk or downside to MLS in awarding Detroit an MLS franchise. No stadium issue. No doubts on community support. Big market. Big money.

[SammyS]

So the lack of a dedicated sports stadium had little to no effect on the bid [[may have helped?)

This therefor opens the failed jail site for something of more value to the city. High rise residential/office/retail combo maybe? The big boys may have known/planned this all along. That's why they are there and I'm just here typing on a blog......

[BankruptcyGuy]

What with Ford Field now being the home stadium since the soccer-specific stadium plans have been scrapped, I'm all-out surprised by this.

I believe both the House and Senate tax plans eliminate tax deduction for stadium bonds. I wonder if that is helping the MLS come off the dedicated stadium requirement. Plus, Detroit has no stadium delivery risk. IMO, would be a good utilization of a resource used for 8 football games a year.

[K-slice]

It will be great to see Ford Field more utilized, and the jail site to have something better than another stadium, once they award Detroit our team!

[401don]

While you couldn't pay me to watch soccer [[Toronto, the defending champion, didn't score a goal in their playoff game last week but still advanced. Nor did they score a goal in the championship game last year, another nil-nil match, yippee!) I do think, just like baseball, fans deserve to see the game played outdoors on real grass. That's what creates the atmosphere and it gives European fans another reason to snub their noses at MLS.

[EGrant]

While you couldn't pay me to watch soccer [[Toronto, the defending champion, didn't score a goal in their playoff game last week but still advanced. Nor did they score a goal in the championship game last year, another nil-nil match, yippee!) I do think, just like baseball, fans deserve to see the game played outdoors on real grass. That's what creates the atmosphere and it gives European fans another reason to snub their noses at MLS.

The MLS playoff format and season schedule needs to be completely overhauled. Ideally, they should try to somewhat matchup with the rest of the world's schedule, which would mean more cold-weather games. And I think the atmosphere depends on the team and fan support. Atlanta United plays indoors and had some awesome crowds, while there have been some dead crowds at outdoor, soccer specific stadiums

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I want to further explain why the Detroit bid's financials and corporate associations make it the city with the most to offer MLS. First, as a league that still loses money [[albeit with a much higher cash flow than years ago), deep pocketed owners are a must, both to absorb losses and to finance initiatives of all kinds to grow the business. The current round of 4 bidding cities are all well financed, but none come close to having the wherewithall of the Detroit bid [[even before Martha Firestone Ford joined the bid). In fact, we'd be the club with the second or third richest ownership group in MLS overall. And now that we're not building a stadium, there are no financial [[or construction) hiccups related to that to get in the way. The last thing MLS would want is financial difficulties among new clubs. No risk of that with the Detroit bid. Linked below is a Freep article from today summarizing the current strength of the ownership group:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...ket/108149670/

But the real kicker, I think, is related to corporate money for sponsorships and TV advertising [[and thus broadcast rights revenue). Detroit is a real two-fer for MLS here. First, awarding our city an MLS club would bring the largest media market in contention on board with the league. Undoubtedly, MLS broadcast ratings are higher when a city has their own team, for both local and national broadcasts. Higher ratings leads to higher prices being charged by MLS to broadcast their games. National TV rights expire in 2022, meaning negotiations for those rights will occur in 2020 or 2021. MLS would be in a much better position to charge more money if they were in an additional 2 larger markets. Detroit fills the bill. Add to that the fact that both Ford and Quicken Loans are major national advertisers in sports, and it seems as if it would be very enticing to MLS to bring them on board to help grow the league.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_...5.E2.80.932022

I can also see in the future:
MLS All-Star Game brought to you by Quicken Loans
and
Ford Escape: Official SUV of Major League Soccer

MLS is a business. Picking Detroit in the first round is the better business decision for MLS:
1) Owners who are well-known entrepreneurs worth a massive amount of money, who own between them 3 major sports franchises
2) Large, soccer-friendly market
3) Ready to go, all paid-for facility smack in the middle of a thriving downtown
4) The ability to bring in much more corporate sponsorship both directly and indirectly to MLS
5) Significant enhancement to MLS's value in the single-business unit structure

MLS is lucky in that all four finalists are genuinely good choices. But the owners who will decide the first round winners are all businessmen and women, who would like to eventually see a profit for their investment. Picking Detroit is a step in that direction for Major League Soccer.