Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

[Atticus]

Madison Square Garden isn't that far from Times Square.

[Zads07]

In the meantime, go check out Detroit City FC at Keyworth. Season opens tonight, heck of an atmosphere and competitive soccer

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Casscorridor, my support for putting an MLS stadium at the Fail Jaili is not to imply that a stadium couldn't work well in another location. There are other places that could combine a good stadium with a neighborhood that would benefit from and make for an inviting place to spend a game and the time before and after. But I support the specific idea of putting a soccer stadium [[and the associated towers and retail) at Fail Jail site because there are 2 options for that site: the jail or the stadium. I think the stadium project is much more attractive for a variety of reasons. It's better looking, will generate far more foot traffic, it will directly pay taxes, and it will complement the rest of the development downtown already going on. Additionally, it will almost certainly save the county money. The county would be hard-pressed to finish the jail for [[and other needed building upgrades, too), for $300M. Under the Gilbert plan, all cost over-runs would be covered by the businessmen, not the taxpayers.

If the Fail Jail site doesn't come to fruition [[tragedy!), I think the stadium will eventually land elsewhere. But it won't have the added bonus of removing a giant, ugly, very expensive monument to government incompetence, corruption & memorial to those living a life of crime.

[MrMichigan]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...art_river_home

Just give the site to Gilbert already...

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

If the would-be construction contractor keeps needing extensions, why would anyone think that their cost & time estimates would be accurate? Choosing that plan at this point is foolhardy on several levels. I appreciate Warren Evans doing his due diligence and investigating both routes to a new county jail, but there is a clear winner in the "what is the best plan for the Fail Jail site" sweepstakes.

[emu steve]

If the would-be construction contractor keeps needing extensions, why would anyone think that their cost & time estimates would be accurate? Choosing that plan at this point is foolhardy on several levels. I appreciate Warren Evans doing his due diligence and investigating both routes to a new county jail, but there is a clear winner in the "what is the best plan for the Fail Jail site" sweepstakes.

I agree that it hardly instills confidence in the construction contractor and really raises the questions of possible cost overruns.

I would not be surprised if the WC exec opts for the 'safer' offer from Gilbert as that doesn't seem to have the possible 'bad surprises.'

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Interesting article in Crain's explains one of the motivations behind the county dragging its feet: there is a potential large financial penalty from the IRS regarding past issued bonds.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...eal-handcuffed

They are awaiting word on what the penalties would be before making a decision. I was vaguely aware of this, but not that it could be a $50M-$170M liability for taxpayers. I hope the IRS makes a relatively favorable determination, and soon.

Final partisan note: government money- even given to other governments- always, always, ALWAYS has unpleasant and constraining strings attached.

[emu steve]

Yes, it does... [[have strings).

As crazy as this case is, the subsidy on the bonds came from a specific program [[law) which had specific guidelines which the jail program met. Of course, the deal was made when the economy was in the toilet and any help was most welcome. The law was trying to encourage anything which would help the economy recovery in this case by making it easier to build a very large project.

It is easy to make the case for a 'new' deal: The present deal is a financial disaster for the county, the location could be used for better commercial purposes, etc...

Yet, as much as I [[and many here) would love the jail NOT to be built at it present site, this could be considered a 'bait and switch' deal.

It's hard to essentially tear up a deal and pretend it never happened. Let's hope the IRS accepts the county's 'plea deal', yes we are going back on our word and what will be our penalty?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Yeah, emusteve, Wayne County under the terrific Robert Ficano took fed money on the stipulation that it be used for a certain project at a certain place under certain conditions. I hope the IRS just sees that it would be worse to pour more bad money into the bad plan than it would be to just say, "Okay, everybody, lets all just cut our losses." If I'm reading it correctly, the Crain's article says that if Fail Jail were to be completed, it would be eligible for the remainder of the federal grant. So, it would seemingly be in the federal government's best interests to abandon it as well, and save that money. I really don't like the fact that IRS bureaucrats in Washington will play a major role in what happens with a major plot of land & development spot in Detroit, the county's criminal justice needs, and Detroit's attempt to lure a major sports franchise.

[casscorridor]

I really don't like the fact that IRS bureaucrats in Washington will play a major role in what happens with a major plot of land & development spot in Detroit, the county's criminal justice needs, and Detroit's attempt to lure a major sports franchise.

I don't think the "bureaucrats" in Washington are deciding. If you're looking for someone to blame if the project doesn't go forward, pin it on the mismanagement of Wayne County.

[emu steve]

I don't think the "bureaucrats" in Washington are deciding. If you're looking for someone to blame if the project doesn't go forward, pin it on the mismanagement of Wayne County.

I agree with you.

SOMEONE has to represent the IRS [[federal government) in this matter [['Nature abhors a vacuum").

Think of it as a contract between two parties, the federal government and Wayne County.

Each party needs to ensure that the contract if fulfilled as agreed upon, OR re-negotiate the contract with equity for both sides.

The IRS can't simply be silent and let this go away.

Having said that, I have NO idea how or what Wayne County says or offers to the federal government for mismanaging their end of the contract.

Maybe, the feds come up with a penalty which is say 1/2 of the monies in question????

Kind of a 'plea deal' of sorts. Maybe the price of the 'plea deal' could be worked into the new offer for that fail jail site.

[emu steve]

With all of the development to be announced today along Temple [[and elsewhere) does anyone feel that if fail jail site falls through that Gilbert-Gores might look at land around 3rd/Temple?

That area will be getting a lot, lot better in the years ahead and esp. when Cass Park is cleaned up.

Getting Temple between Cass and 640 Temple renovated is key to revitalizing that area and make it desirable for a soccer stadium.

I think everyone would love to know what is in store for those two blocks of surface parking between Cass and 2nd at Temple/Ledyard. Those are valuable blocks.

[ekleezy]

With all of the development to be announced today along Temple [[and elsewhere) does anyone feel that if fail jail site falls through that Gilbert-Gores might look at land around 3rd/Temple?

That area will be getting a lot, lot better in the years ahead and esp. when Cass Park is cleaned up.

Getting Temple between Cass and 640 Temple renovated is key to revitalizing that area and make it desirable for a soccer stadium.

I think everyone would love to know what is in store for those two blocks of surface parking between Cass and 2nd at Temple/Ledyard. Those are valuable blocks.

I hope there's no desire to build a soccer stadium around 3rd and Temple. It's still a residential area and just a block away from Cass Tech. I think more residential or green space would be much better. Also, the billionaires and city gov brag about how adding a soccer stadium would make downtown Detroit the densest sports district. Temple and 3rd would just be ridiculously close to LCA though.

[emu steve]

I hope there's no desire to build a soccer stadium around 3rd and Temple. It's still a residential area and just a block away from Cass Tech. I think more residential or green space would be much better. Also, the billionaires and city gov brag about how adding a soccer stadium would make downtown Detroit the densest sports district. Temple and 3rd would just be ridiculously close to LCA though.

I read and respect your comment. I see the area as more residential/commercial than prime for something like a soccer stadium. I believe the District Detroit plans are residential.

My problem is that by time residential moves westward to that area we might be talking say 15 years. Everyone willing to play the 'long game'?

There are so many existing redevelopment opportunities between 75 and say Mack that new construction isn't coming near the that area for a very long time [[I"d think).

E.g., didn't I read about 40 Davenport St. recently?

Rehabs are a lot cheaper than new construction.

[emu steve]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article..._medium=social

Curious what this all means???

BTW, Re: my post above, I agree that residential [[e.g., townhomes) or green space is best usage of that land by 3rd and Temple.

If it is green space it could later be converted to residential, if conditions warrant.

[EGrant]

I don't think the Crain's article said anything particularly new, other than the relationship between DCFC owners and Gilbert/Gores appears to be better than what we thought, or what some angry Twitter accounts will tell you.

If there is a chance G/G would invest in the club, the owners at least are listening, as any smart businessperson would. Personally, I'd love to see DCFC become the MLS team, with the current ownership retaining a lot of the control overt their brand.

[emu steve]

I don't think the Crain's article said anything particularly new, other than the relationship between DCFC owners and Gilbert/Gores appears to be better than what we thought, or what some angry Twitter accounts will tell you.

If there is a chance G/G would invest in the club, the owners at least are listening, as any smart businessperson would. Personally, I'd love to see DCFC become the MLS team, with the current ownership retaining a lot of the control overt their brand.

Interesting.

I have no way of knowing how a G/G MLS and DCFC relationship would work out, but as of now only DCFC has direct experience running a soccer team.

And yes, why shouldn't G/G offer some financial help and become minority partners?

[Zads07]

New proposal from Gilbert on consolidating the jail site. This one seems like a better option than the first one they put forth.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...l-construction

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

The new proposal is better on a number of fronts, but also pricier. However, the increase in price is both merited and looks good compared to the jail contractor proposal. The Gilbert-Gores proposal makes a larger jail than finishing the current [[somewhat scaled down) project. It also provides new, modern facilities for the courts, juvenile detention, etc, as opposed to the slight renovations in the Walsh proposal. And it caps the county's costs, assuming all responsibility for any overruns. But the best part is that a Gilbert-Gores win at the fail jail site will lead to new, long-term taxpaying businesses, residents, employees and visitors, while keeping all criminal justice-related jobs also in the city. It also scraps the controversial "savings dividend" of the original proposal. This is a GREAT plan, and I pray they approve it. At least the Evans has said they hope to make a tentative decision by the end of July.

[southen]

It is much better but they may have already shot themselves in the foot with the first proposal. Their cap on money is good, but it may need to come down closer to the Walsh proposal in order to for Evans' hand.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

It is much better but they may have already shot themselves in the foot with the first proposal. Their cap on money is good, but it may need to come down closer to the Walsh proposal in order to for Evans' hand.

I don't think that the proposal necessarily needs to come down in cost in order to beat the Walsh proposal. The G-G plan is definitely going to provide a notably larger jail, and all new criminal justice facilities for a little more money. Considering that any Fail Jail scenario now involves a smaller jail than originally intended by the Ficano mob, getting more beds seems like a bonus, and brand new courts, admin offices & juvenile center are icing on the cake. The Gilbert plan has 3 main advantages, although it is more expensive:

1) Complete taxpayer protection. Highest possible taxpayer burden known at the outset.
2) More, larger & brand new facilities.
3) Allows for a new, large taxpaying enterprise to attach to a rapidly growing downtown. And it's not just Detroit's downtown, it is Wayne County's downtown.

In order for Evans to select the Walsh plan, he would need to accept the following things:

1) Finishing Fail Jail might save taxpayers several million dollars. Or it might not. Won't know until it's done.
2) Jail expansion sooner rather than later is on the horizon, because they opted for a smaller jail. Similarly, court, juvenile & administrative offices will need sooner and larger renovations/expansions.
3) A jail on the edge of a booming downtown isn't a detriment to business; and a pro soccer stadium with 3 high rises bringing residents, workers, hotel guests & game crowds doesn't have enough merit to alter plans.

We'll see. I think Evans did the right thing by keeping options open, studying the possibilities & making all parties come to the table with best and final offers. But the Gilbert-Gores proposal is such a terrific one, which presents a very rare opportunity for a do-over on an expensive bit of government incompetence, that I can't imagine not saying yes.

[Lowell]

Interesting note that Gilbert/Gores have domain squatted the potential name Detroit City Soccer Club -- very close to Detroit City Football Club.

IMO they should go for Detroit United Football/or Soccer Club. United has a very positive tone and then we could have two clubs as Manchester England famously has with Manchester United and Manchester City.

But who's asking me?

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ould-be-called

[southen]

I still think they are going to end up purchasing DCFC and taking that brand to MLS. I know the owners are hesitant now but there will be enough money and an ownership stake offered to them and they will jump at it. The trick will be doing it in a way that brings the fan base along as well.

[EGrant]

I still think they are going to end up purchasing DCFC and taking that brand to MLS. I know the owners are hesitant now but there will be enough money and an ownership stake offered to them and they will jump at it. The trick will be doing it in a way that brings the fan base along as well.

I agree. While they certainly could lose some of the really die hard fans of the club if DCFC goes to the MLS, I think there are plenty of people that will remain loyal to the team. I love DCFC, and I know a lot of people like me that want to see them move up in some way, they just don't want to be too vocal about it because of the backlash. Also, it's just more fun to be pissed off at the big bad billionaire that they've turned into a horrible villain. Makes for more dramatic tweets and tifos.

I also think this DCSC thing is just covering the bases. I'd imagine there are other names they reserved as well. It would be a pretty crappy name if that ended up being it, but who knows.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I still favor calling a would-be MLS team Arsenal Detroit, referencing both the famed European soccer club and Detroit's role as the "arsenal of democracy" in WW2. I have a hunch the Gilbert crowd owns tons of domain names even tangentially related to any venture they might even consider going into.