Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

[swingline]

The Crew are getting moved to Austin, which is a sore subject in the MLS right now.

The Crew's move to Austin isn't a done deal yet. I think that they're still working out stadium issues.

[masterblaster]

The Crew's move to Austin isn't a done deal yet. I think that they're still working out stadium issues.

I wonder if MLS is delaying the confirmation of Cincinnati until the Columbus Crew situation is resolved.

Maybe MLS is trying to avoid the following scenario:
The Crew stays in Columbus, and Cincinnati get awards the expansion team. Thus Ohio has 2 MLS teams, while Michigan with its 9.9 million population still won't have one team.


If the Crew moves to Austin, then the MLS will award the expansion team to Cincinnati, no problem.

If the Crew stay in Columbus, maybe they award the new team to Detroit or Sacramento.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

MasterBlaster, it seems that by their actions MLS has indicated that their preference for the next bid is Cincinnati. You might be right that they want neither 2 nor 0 clubs in Ohio, although I think a club in Austin is a no-brainer regardless of a move [[it's affluence and demographics make it a very natural fit for MLS). As it is, I don't see why they don't just award it to Detroit, and give it to Cincinnati next time [[1-2 years later) when and if the logistics are worked out. Detroit is a super-solid bid, even if it lacks the "sex appeal" of new stadium or opening where there are not 4 other major franchises in town.

[emu steve]

This may sound like a stretch, but I believe a new spring football league will be starting in 2019.

If so, they could be a candidate to be a tenant at a new soccer stadium if Detroit gets a franchise.

These franchises might be better located in soccer stadiums than huge NFL stadiums although they seem to be looking at NFL stadiums.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allian...rican_Football

My only question is who wants to watch FB outdoors in February in most of the country.

[emu steve]

These tables why I think it is a strong imperative for Detroit to go MLS.

As one can see from the data, MLS is one sport which attracts younger audiences as do some others like NBA.

Golf is like a sport for those awaiting their Medicare card in the mail... MLB is attracting older and older audiences also [[not good for the sport).

Horse racing is another and is a dying sport except for the Triple Crown.

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...ip-trends.aspx

Very possible in 25 years MLB will be in decline and MLS in a growth phase.

[EastsideAl]

This may sound like a stretch, but I believe a new spring football league will be starting in 2019.

If so, they could be a candidate to be a tenant at a new soccer stadium if Detroit gets a franchise.

These franchises might be better located in soccer stadiums than huge NFL stadiums although they seem to be looking at NFL stadiums.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allian...rican_Football

My only question is who wants to watch FB outdoors in February in most of the country.

I think the operators of that league are looking back at the relative success of the USFL in the '80s as spring league. As I remember, the USFL seasons started in early March and ran to the end of June, with playoffs in July and a lot of franchises in the south or in domed stadiums. Attendance climbed throughout the league's history and TV ratings were pretty decent, outdrawing most other sports in the same time periods. In fact, the USFL might still be around today if it wasn't for Donald Trump and Eddie Einhorn pushing them to go head-to-head with the NFL in the fall and to spend a ton of money suing them, which turned into a disaster.

Having said that though, football is now in a slow decline and is not as popular as it was in the mid '80s. And the NFL now has contracts with all of the major networks. So it seems like an idea whose time is very likely to have passed.

[emu steve]

I think the operators of that league are looking back at the relative success of the USFL in the '80s as spring league. As I remember, the USFL seasons started in early March and ran to the end of June, with playoffs in July and a lot of franchises in the south or in domed stadiums. Attendance climbed throughout the league's history and TV ratings were pretty decent, outdrawing most other sports in the same time periods. In fact, the USFL might still be around today if it wasn't for Donald Trump and Eddie Einhorn pushing them to go head-to-head with the NFL in the fall and to spend a ton of money suing them, which turned into a disaster.

Having said that though, football is now in a slow decline and is not as popular as it was in the mid '80s. And the NFL now has contracts with all of the major networks. So it seems like an idea whose time is very likely to have passed.

You and I, Al, share similar recollections.

Without those who a). Inflated salaries beyond common sense. b). yeah, trying to become a fall league.

This would be a good test of FB vs. MLB. Could share soccer stadiums and shoot for say 20K attendance and limited budgets.

With better management the USFL might have succeeded. The quality of play was pretty good and some folks prefer FB to baseball.

And I'd like to see more jobs for college FB players. Maybe the league could become a de facto farm system with the NFL buying contracts of the better players.

[EGrant]

EMU Steve's point is one of the biggest reasons I think we need to go for the MLS now, despite an ownership/stadium situation that might not be completely ideal. And yes, the MLS is not the perfect league [[I'd prefer pro/rel, but that's a different topic), but it's the best we have and it is growing really fast in certain markets [[Atlanta, Orlando, LA, Portland, NYC)

I'd hate to miss out on what I think is a sport poised to become a major player down the road, especially with the decline of football and various struggles of baseball and hockey just because we're waiting for DCFC to grow or a "better" billionaire owner to come in with a different MLS Detroit bid.

[emu steve]

EMU Steve's point is one of the biggest reasons I think we need to go for the MLS now, despite an ownership/stadium situation that might not be completely ideal. And yes, the MLS is not the perfect league [[I'd prefer pro/rel, but that's a different topic), but it's the best we have and it is growing really fast in certain markets [[Atlanta, Orlando, LA, Portland, NYC)

I'd hate to miss out on what I think is a sport poised to become a major player down the road, especially with the decline of football and various struggles of baseball and hockey just because we're waiting for DCFC to grow or a "better" billionaire owner to come in with a different MLS Detroit bid.

Thanks.

The rule of thumb on franchises is that you can buy in now or wait and the cost goes up very, very steeply over time.

I think the history of MLS franchises already shows this steep franchise fee inflation.

Later if Detroit needs to get a franchise to RELOCATE to Detroit, the selling owners and MLS will probably take the new owners or city or both to the cleaners [[and not to get clean jerseys).

[Zads07]

It appears Detroit will not be getting an MLS team.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...market-leaving

I can't say I'm surprised. I think the addition of Ford Field killed the bid, based on the MLS wanting a soccer-specific stadium. Personally, I would've preferred Ford Field to a soccer specific stadium, but this just means more success for Detroit City FC, which has three international friendlies this season.

I'd recommend going out to check out a game there to get your soccer fix. They want to grow as a club and go from the NPSL to a higher league.

[Colombian Dan]

Well some of us did try hard to explain "football" here in Detroit... America de Cali was represented......

[mtburb]

It appears Detroit will not be getting an MLS team.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...market-leaving

I can't say I'm surprised. I think the addition of Ford Field killed the bid, based on the MLS wanting a soccer-specific stadium. Personally, I would've preferred Ford Field to a soccer specific stadium, but this just means more success for Detroit City FC, which has three international friendlies this season.

I'd recommend going out to check out a game there to get your soccer fix. They want to grow as a club and go from the NPSL to a higher league.

I expect many of the same reasons why Detroit will not get Amazon HQ2 nor Foxconn [[among them infrequent transit frequencies in most areas) also played into Detroit not getting an MLS team.

[swingline]

It appears Detroit will not be getting an MLS team.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...market-leaving

I can't say I'm surprised. I think the addition of Ford Field killed the bid, based on the MLS wanting a soccer-specific stadium. Personally, I would've preferred Ford Field to a soccer specific stadium, but this just means more success for Detroit City FC, which has three international friendlies this season.

I'd recommend going out to check out a game there to get your soccer fix. They want to grow as a club and go from the NPSL to a higher league.

It will be interesting to see if the MLS preference for soccer specific stadiums evolves over the next couple of years. If not, and if Gores/Gilbert does not come up with an alternative to Ford Field, 4 million population Detroit region will stick out like a sore thumb as an MLS-less market. There is about an 18 month window to figure this out. The last two expansion markets [[perhaps the last two ever) will probably be awarded by the end of the 2019 season. There will be at least a half-dozen serious contenders for those spots. Lots of work to be done before then.

DCFC will benefit in the short term but that club has decisions to make as well. The current level of support will be difficult to sustain if the club remains in a Division 4 league. At some point in the not too distant future, the quality of play will begin to matter to more of the fans. DCFC’s quality did not compare favorably at all in recent matches with FC Cincinnati [[USL/Division 2) and FC St. Pauli [[Bundesliga 2). The match experience alone will not be enough to draw 6000/game indefinitely. With a few upgrades, Keyworth Stadium is probably adequate for USSF Division 2 standards. If DCFC found a co-owner that satisfies the net worth standard for Division 2, they would probably be a slam dunk for a USL franchise. Hope they don’t go the competing NASL/NISA route. Those leagues are a house of cards

[Gistok]

Perhaps this says it best... the problem may not be Detroit... but MLS...

"Having an open-air stadium in LA is quite different than having it in Detroit. While I respect the desire for an open-air facility, the only way this would work in Detroit, given the timing of the season, is a retractable roof. While neat in concept, wholly unnecessary when you already have a world class facility in Ford Field that will never have a game postponed for weather. Detroit is one of a very few markets that successfully draws fans for all 4 major sports and has shown an ability through various popular local soccer clubs, as well as premier events, to draw fans for soccer. Looking past this is pure arrogance on the part of a league that hasn't earned the right to be arrogant."

[Bham1982]

Looking past this is pure arrogance on the part of a league that hasn't earned the right to be arrogant."

Pretty sure that Detroit isn't the only city on earth with inclement weather. All the European leagues, even much colder Russia, play through the dead of winter.

And the MLS schedule basically mirrors that of MLB, but with much shorter matches. Unless you think the Tigers need to play indoors, no reason a short 90-minute match can't be played outdoors.

[DetroitSoldier]

For me it is a cultural issue. I've been an MLS season ticket holder in the past. I dont want Detroit anywhere near that for a variety of reasons. This discussion is focused more on $$ and development, so I wont get into the details. But my friends in Seattle loved their club a lot more before they had MLS to mistreat them. Building up a club like Detroit City FC will provide more value long term to the community than some billionaires fronting an MLS franchise would. Look at what they are doing with the old City Arena, Keyworth Stadium, and the Detroit Futbol League...and that is with limited resources and only a few years of work. Imagine if the entire city rallied behind them. It's more than just an amateur summer team. It's a culture that identifies with the people of the city.

[Towne Cluber]

It's a culture that identifies with the people of the city.

Is it? Again, please stop citing your friends in Seattle not liking it as a reason that Detroit shouldn't have it. Detroit isn't Seattle and neither you nor your friends speak for this city.

[masterblaster]

I think the operators of that league are looking back at the relative success of the USFL in the '80s as spring league. As I remember, the USFL seasons started in early March and ran to the end of June, with playoffs in July and a lot of franchises in the south or in domed stadiums. Attendance climbed throughout the league's history and TV ratings were pretty decent, outdrawing most other sports in the same time periods. In fact, the USFL might still be around today if it wasn't for Donald Trump and Eddie Einhorn pushing them to go head-to-head with the NFL in the fall and to spend a ton of money suing them, which turned into a disaster.

Having said that though, football is now in a slow decline and is not as popular as it was in the mid '80s. And the NFL now has contracts with all of the major networks. So it seems like an idea whose time is very likely to have passed.

What about luring a CFL team? The league has 9 teams, Detroit would make it an even ten.

How about a soccer stadium and a new horseracing venue at the Michigan State Fairgrounds

[DetroitSoldier]

Is it? Again, please stop citing your friends in Seattle not liking it as a reason that Detroit shouldn't have it. Detroit isn't Seattle and neither you nor your friends speak for this city.

You must have missed the part where I said I was one of those guys. And as a resident of Detriut for a very long time I believe I do speak for this city, if just my individual experience of it. But thank you for your condescending assumptions on an open forum.

[313WX]

So just in the past few months, Detroit [[a 4-5+ million metro) has been rejected by:

1. The U.S. Army

2. Amazon

3. MLS

Every other major city [[and several mid-size cities) was at least selected or shortlisted by one of those 3. I imagine that's gotta sting.

[Towne Cluber]

You must have missed the part where I said I was one of those guys. And as a resident of Detriut for a very long time I believe I do speak for this city, if just my individual experience of it. But thank you for your condescending assumptions on an open forum.

Likewise, thank you for continuing to condescendingly advocate against things for Detroit based on trivial matters like your dislike of billionaires and the whims of your Seattle friends.

[Bham1982]

So just in the past few months, Detroit [[a 4-5+ million metro) has been rejected by:

1. The U.S. Army

2. Amazon

3. MLS

Every other major city [[and several mid-size cities) was at least selected or shortlisted by one of those 3. I imagine that's gotta sting.

Why would it "sting"? Detroit wasn't expected to get any of these, and MLS is a nothingburger. The other two would be nice but of the 20,000 municipalities in the U.S. why would Detroit be selected?

[313WX]

Why would it "sting"?

The fact that Metro Detroit is so fucked that it can't even out-punch mid-size metros and it's the only major metro area that major companies / organizations will not consider for major relocations / expansions.

It means you have serious issues when you're not even competitive with Newark, Indianapolis or Nashville of all places.

Even the Free Press [[normally amongst the loudest "Southeast Michigan" cheerleaders) admits that much...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.fre.../amp/618924002

"Now, barring the success of a long-shot appeal by Sen. Gary Peters, southeast Michigan is poised to sustain another blow to its self-esteem, and another setback in its quest for recognition as a leader in technological innovation."

[Bham1982]

The fact that Metro Detroit is so fucked that it can't even out-punch mid-size metros and it's the only major metro area that major companies / organizations will not consider for major relocations / expansions.

Again, there are 20,000 municipalities in the U.S. Why would anyone care if Detroit weren't selected for two incredibly longshot expansions? 19,998 municipalities are in the exact same boat. Poor LA, SF, Seattle, Boston, etc.

It means you have serious issues when you're not even competitive with Newark, Indianapolis or Nashville of all places.

None of these cities [[at least as of now) are getting these things either, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Newark is like 1 billion times more desirable than Detroit. You realize it's in the NYC metro [[wealthiest on the planet) and 8 miles from Manhattan, right?

Nashville is a super-fast growing Sunbelt boomtown.

Indy is a boring mid-sized farm country metro that makes Detroit look sophisticated.

And just because a company goes to City A instead of City B doesn't mean that City A is "better". JC Penney used to be in Manhattan and now is in exurban Dallas. That doesn't mean Weedpatch, Texas is "better".

[313WX]

Poor LA, SF, Seattle, Boston, etc.

Actually, every single one of those cities made the shortlist for either the U.S. Army Futures Command or Amazon HQ2 [[and they also have MLS teams).

Metro Detroit can't even manage that, which is a disgrace and the judging from the reaction in the Free Press article, can't feel good, especially if you're a person who actually wants the region to land national economic developments in order to grow [[the region's population is still lower than its 1970 peak) and become more competitive.