Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

[Bham1982]

Actually, every single one of those cities made the shortlist for either the U.S. Army Futures Command or Amazon HQ2 [[and they also have MLS teams).

Who cares? None were selected. None of these cities are getting either prize.

Amazon HQ2 is a farce anyways, with predetermined "winner". It's just Amazon trying to force Seattle's hand on taxation and development. There is no HQ2.

Metro Detroit can't even manage that, which is a disgrace as the judging from the reaction in the Free Press, can't feel good.

Your definition of "disgrace" is apparently "not winning some fake competition". None of these cities are winning anything, so all these cities are a "disgrace", or none are.

[313WX]

Amazon HQ2 is a farce anyways, with predetermined "winner".

Ok, thanks for letting us know Mr. Bezos!

[Bham1982]

Ok, thanks for letting us know Mr. Bezos!

It's pretty well-known that HQ2, at least as promoted, doesn't exist. There is no precedent or logic to having dual HQ. Doesn't mean people won't be fooled. Of course some city will be "announced" and there will be some jobs created, but it has nothing to do with an HQ2 and was long-since decided. "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public".

The gangsters and con artists "leading" this nation, the fact that cities are desperately whoring themselves over a "HQ2" that most analysts say doesn't even exist, are pretty good Exhibits A and B. Most people are easily fooled, and politicians will never shy away from self-serving civic promotion.

[313WX]

There is no precedent...to having dual HQ.

There was no precedent to a major city filing for Chapter 9 bankruptcy either, yet it still happened.

[Zads07]

Detroit was a front runner before the bid committee changed to Ford Field.

I think it's very telling that there was no comment from the Detroit MLS bid today on not getting it. I think the switch to Ford Field was all about getting the land from Wayne County to redevelop, not into a soccer stadium, but for whatever Gilbert wants.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/2...medium=twitter

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/2...medium=twitter

Detroit was a front runner before the bid committee changed to Ford Field.

I think it's very telling that there was no comment from the Detroit MLS bid today on not getting it. I think the switch to Ford Field was all about getting the land from Wayne County to redevelop, not into a soccer stadium, but for whatever Gilbert wants.

Zads I think you are way off here. Wayne County is THRILLED with the plans for the new jail and getting rid of the Fail Jail project. It will be a net plus for taxpayers, give the county significantly larger and better jail and associated criminal justice facilities, limit the county's financial risk, better position both the city and county for downtown economic growth, and wipe away the largest Wayne County incompetence symbol ever semi-built in one fell swoop. The county would have readily and responsibly agreed to Gilbert's terms even had MLS never been in the picture. The "bait and switch" conspiracy is felled by the fact that the bait [[a soccer stadium) was publicly and officially rejected by the Gilbert team as the cornerstone of the Fail Jail redevelopment before the various government agencies made their decisions.

I do agree that Detroit's bid was made less competitive by the switch. That seems obvious. MLS has been clear that they prefer soccer-specific facilities. But that fact does not mean that Fail Jail's best use would be as a stadium, or that there aren't other factors involved in picking Cincinnati. When Gilbert & Gores first proposed a soccer-centric development plan for the jail site, it was a pairing of their desire to bring MLS to Detroit with getting a chance to rid Detroit of what would be a rather ugly and unwelcoming project on a large parcel of downtown property. But as Detroit's boom has only accelerated downtown, they came to the obvious conclusion that a larger and more profitable project could be built there. Residential, office and hotel development on a larger scale would both make them a lot more money, and generate a lot more economic activity than the stadium project would. If Detroit still had no one interested in productively using large downtown land parcels, putting a stadium at the jail site would be a no-brainer. But, happily, that is not the case.

While the stadium issue certainly impaired our bid, it was not the only factor involved. I think Cincinnati clearly had the edge in the fan support department. Their minor league soccer team's attendance exceeds the MLS average by several thousand. Also- and I think this is a real factor- MLS has said it intends to raise the "entry" fee for acquiring a franchise for the next round. It was $150M. It will now likely be $200M or more. Detroit's ownership group has a personal net worth of over $10B [[plus deeper attached corporate coffers); Cincinnati's owner is worth about 1/10th of that. In other words, $150M might be the highest Cincinnati could have paid. Gilbert-Gores-Ford could write a check for twice that tomorrow.

Going forward, I still think that Ford Field is the best foot forward for Detroit for hosting soccer in the city. Putting aside the financials of building a stadium, I am moved by 2 factors. First, I doubt sincerely that there is another realistically viable site in the vicinity of downtown that would have the size needed to build a stadium. And having the team be downtown is the element that makes it worth everyone's time in the first place. Secondly, the 2 teams with the [[by far) highest MLS attendance play in large NFL stadiums [[Atlanta and Seattle). While I am not saying Detroit would average 50,000 fans a game, I think we could certainly bring in more fans than the 20-25,000 that a Detroit soccer-only stadium would bring in. I hope that the Detroit bid can convince them of that for the next round.

[swingline]

Yesterday's DCFC vs Frosinone Calcio international friendly result starkly exposed the level of soccer that the vocal anti-MLS/Gilbert/Gores crowd wants to impose on Detroit for the indefinite future. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...tch/877012002/ The Italian side played relentlessly aggressive soccer both offensively and while defending. They scored almost at will. [[10-0 final score) A very skilled team. Yet Frosinone is only good enough to have spent the past few decades laboring in the second and third divisions of Italian soccer. They won a playoff this year to get promoted to Serie A for only the second time in club history. [[The first time they lasted one season before getting relegated.) DCFC played with energy for most of the game but never really threatened to score and struggled to get over midfield in the second half. They were clearly overmatched especially in terms of speed and ball skills. The benefits that accrue from a community-centered, grass roots club like DCFC are important but they don't outweigh the need for the 14th largest metropolitan area in the country to join the ranks of actual professional soccer.

[dtowncitylover]

Yesterday's DCFC vs Frosinone Calcio international friendly result starkly exposed the level of soccer that the vocal anti-MLS/Gilbert/Gores crowd wants to impose on Detroit for the indefinite future. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...tch/877012002/ The Italian side played relentlessly aggressive soccer both offensively and while defending. They scored almost at will. [[10-0 final score) A very skilled team. Yet Frosinone is only good enough to have spent the past few decades laboring in the second and third divisions of Italian soccer. They won a playoff this year to get promoted to Serie A for only the second time in club history. [[The first time they lasted one season before getting relegated.) DCFC played with energy for most of the game but never really threatened to score and struggled to get over midfield in the second half. They were clearly overmatched especially in terms of speed and ball skills. The benefits that accrue from a community-centered, grass roots club like DCFC are important but they don't outweigh the need for the 14th largest metropolitan area in the country to join the ranks of actual professional soccer.

Are you saying we need an MLS team because our highest-level team got slobbered against an extremely professional Italian team that has worked just as hard as we are working now to get where they are?

I'm not pro or anti-MLS, but that's a silly reason to absolutely need an MLS team.

While it might be nice to have for our image, I'm still not convinced we need an MLS team.

[Zads07]

Yesterday's DCFC vs Frosinone Calcio international friendly result starkly exposed the level of soccer that the vocal anti-MLS/Gilbert/Gores crowd wants to impose on Detroit for the indefinite future. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...tch/877012002/ The Italian side played relentlessly aggressive soccer both offensively and while defending. They scored almost at will. [[10-0 final score) A very skilled team. Yet Frosinone is only good enough to have spent the past few decades laboring in the second and third divisions of Italian soccer. They won a playoff this year to get promoted to Serie A for only the second time in club history. [[The first time they lasted one season before getting relegated.) DCFC played with energy for most of the game but never really threatened to score and struggled to get over midfield in the second half. They were clearly overmatched especially in terms of speed and ball skills. The benefits that accrue from a community-centered, grass roots club like DCFC are important but they don't outweigh the need for the 14th largest metropolitan area in the country to join the ranks of actual professional soccer.

I unfortunately wasn't able to attend last night's match.

Couple of facts: It was the largest attended game in DCFC history. A Series A team played a 4th-tier club in the United States.

Opinion: It was never about winning the game, rather celebrating the game itself. The fact a 4th-tier division US team was able to play a Series A Italian team and draw nearly 8,000 is absolutely incredible.

It also says a lot about what DCFC is doing for soccer in Metro Detroit. If Gilbert and Gores want MLS in Detroit, they better look to DCFC. If they don't, I can imagine it being a very big misstep because of the following.

[dtowncitylover]

I unfortunately wasn't able to attend last night's match.

It was my first! It was rainy at the start but stayed clear through 90% of the game. Good crowd and while it was awful to watch us get creamed, it was very enjoyable.

[DetroitSoldier]

I am a huge supporter of Eintracht Frankfurt, the German Cup champions, with much larger name recognition and history than Frosinone Calcio. Frankfurt just completed a two match US tour. MLS teams in Salt Lake and Philadelphia failed to draw more than 13,000 for each match and the stands looked even more empty than that.

My point is that while it might be nice to see European clubs come to America and show their game and build their brand, it doesn't matter if it is first tier MLS or 4th tier NPSL that they play against...people will show up only if they want to. MLS fans tend to be lazy [[I am a prior MLS season ticket holder, I know). Lower division supporters tend to be more involved because there is a much closer relationship between the front office and the supporters. More than 7,800 in the stands for a 4th tier club, depleted by NCAA players having returned to their schools...throw out the final score, the attendance number speaks for itself as to the popularity of the club. Detroit City continues to prove that they are 4th tier in league only, but first tier in the quality of the organization.

Interestingly, Eintracht Frznkfurt is in the process of building a soccer academy in Washington Township. I would love to see them come to Keyworth next year!

[swingline]

I enjoyed the game as well. Great crowd. DCFC gamedays are always a fun experience. The fact that DCFC wasn't competitive was not an issue. It wasn't about wins and losses and no realistic person expected a close game. But what the game illustrated first-hand is the quality of soccer that Detroit will forego if the anti MLS crowd ever gains significant traction and becomes a real obstacle to the award of a franchise. [[The stadium issue as an obstacle is a separate matter.) MLS teams would not be competitive in Serie A but most would do reasonably well in Serie B or Serie C. There is a vast gulf between MLS quality and 4th Division quality. Detroit shouldn't settle for the latter.

[gumby]

It also says a lot about what DCFC is doing for soccer in Metro Detroit. If Gilbert and Gores want MLS in Detroit, they better look to DCFC. If they don't, I can imagine it being a very big misstep because of the following.

I am still not sure why Gilbert and Gores would need to try and form a relationship with the Northern Guard supporters. They have already made their minds up on the MLS deal. They have vulgar songs about Gilbert, Gores and Garber [[https://boysinrouge.com/chants-songs/) and are unwilling to consider the possibility of a MLS team because of some perceived slight. When it comes down to it, you are saying they need to cower to the whims of a couple thousand fans in a metropolitan area of several million.

[EGrant]

Opinion: It was never about winning the game, rather celebrating the game itself. The fact a 4th-tier division US team was able to play a Series A Italian team and draw nearly 8,000 is absolutely incredible.

You make a great point, I think there is a big market for people that do care about "winning the game" when it comes to supporting a club. I admire the passion of the diehard DCFC fans, but it seems like the actual gameplay is just a small portion of the experience, which is mostly focused on the marching, the chants, the smoke, the sense of community, etc. Things besides the actual gameplay. I don't say that to put down the DCFC fans because they have accomplished a ton of positive things at games and in the community. But I do think there is an untapped market for people who want to see the MLS [[flaws and all) in Detroit.

[Zads07]

You make a great point, I think there is a big market for people that do care about "winning the game" when it comes to supporting a club. I admire the passion of the diehard DCFC fans, but it seems like the actual gameplay is just a small portion of the experience, which is mostly focused on the marching, the chants, the smoke, the sense of community, etc. Things besides the actual gameplay. I don't say that to put down the DCFC fans because they have accomplished a ton of positive things at games and in the community. But I do think there is an untapped market for people who want to see the MLS [[flaws and all) in Detroit.

My point was about the specific exhibition game between the two teams last night. Whoever won that game just added a cherry on top to a sundae of a fantastic event and celebration of soccer. It's not an opinion on winning every game or seeing competitive soccer.

[stasu1213]

I wonder if the stadium will be a multipurpose stadium or just a soccer stadium

[ABetterDetroit]

ESPN put some points out there for the D being the next choice for
MLS expansion yesterday.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...look-expansion

[Bham1982]

I am a huge supporter of Eintracht Frankfurt, the German Cup champions, with much larger name recognition and history than Frosinone Calcio.

Eintracht is a minor German football club that until recently weren't even in the first division. It's like the Mud Hens playing in Europe and expecting excitement.

Why would they draw big crowds for foreign exhibitions, which are star-driven, big club affairs? Barca or Man U or Bayern will obviously draw huge crowds anywhere.

[DetroitSoldier]

Eintracht is a minor German football club that until recently weren't even in the first division. It's like the Mud Hens playing in Europe and expecting excitement.

Why would they draw big crowds for foreign exhibitions, which are star-driven, big club affairs? Barca or Man U or Bayern will obviously draw huge crowds anywhere.

I am obviously not comparing Frankfurt to the likes of Barca, Bayern, Man United etc. But they are one of the most well supported clubs in Germany, a nation with 30 divisions...thats not very "minor." And your argument about recent ascension into the top flight only helps my point that division status is lost on Americans trying to push MLS and a broken USSF pyramid. My whole point though, was that fans should come out to support their club regardless of the opponent. It is what separates clubs from teams. Fans watch teams but supporters are invested in their club regardless of the opponent.

DCFC brought out 7,000+ for a match against TFC Windsor. That is freaking TFC Windsor! Who?? Then they brought out 7,000+ for a matchup against a [[now) Serie A club.

MLS fans show up for a matchup they like, or at their convenience. I have sat in the stands in Seattle for friendlies that hardly had 15,000 then suddenly 67,000 show up for a game against Portland. It's all plastic.

DCFC drawing 7,000+ against TFC Windsor speaks volumes compared to comparatively lousy attendance for MLS clubs in similar friendlies for recent [[non super clubs) like Frankfurt, St. Pauli, Tottenham, West Ham Utd.

[EGrant]

DCFC drawing 7,000+ against TFC Windsor speaks volumes compared to comparatively lousy attendance for MLS clubs in similar friendlies for recent [[non super clubs) like Frankfurt, St. Pauli, Tottenham, West Ham Utd.

DCFC can draw 7,000 against anyone because there's literally just 13 home games, including friendlies. There are far better arguments against the Detroit MLS bid besides "MLS fans don't show up to international friendlies" to be made. $10 tickets also help too...

[Towne Cluber]

Is the latest argument against MLS in Detroit seriously going to be a semantics debate of “fans” versus “supporters” and “teams” versus “clubs”?

[DetroitSoldier]

Is the latest argument against MLS in Detroit seriously going to be a semantics debate of “fans” versus “supporters” and “teams” versus “clubs”?

It is about long term sustainability. You can start a team here and sell out a stadium for a few years because it will be the new show in town. But will people continue to show up and spend money after several years if the team is not winning? That is where the culture of the fanbase comes into play. It is this difference that sets apart quality soccer fanbases that grow orgsnically from the plastic fabricated ones that only hold up when trophies are being raised.

[Towne Cluber]

It is about long term sustainability. You can start a team here and sell out a stadium for a few years because it will be the new show in town. But will people continue to show up and spend money after several years if the team is not winning? That is where the culture of the fanbase comes into play. It is this difference that sets apart quality soccer fanbases that grow orgsnically from the plastic fabricated ones that only hold up when trophies are being raised.

Professional sports leagues and teams have a pretty good track record of long-term sustainability. Major League Baseball is over 100 years old. The NBA is 72 years old. The NFL is almost 100 years old. The NHL is 100 years old. The Lions are 88 years old. The Pistons are 61 years old. The Red Wings are 92 years old. The Tigers are over 100 years old.

Heck, even Major League Soccer is 24 years old.

[DetroitSoldier]

Sure the leagues are sustainable, but many of the teams that make them up are not. The NHL and NBA, have seen expansion teams fold in a short time. Even MLS has seen 3 clubs call it quits in its 24 years with one or two on the brink right now. That is why leagues are so focused on financial stability now more than ever. That will not likely be an issue here...unless people decide to not show up to matches and spend money. This is why the culture is important.

[Towne Cluber]

Sure the leagues are sustainable, but many of the teams that make them up are not. The NHL and NBA, have seen expansion teams fold in a short time. Even MLS has seen 3 clubs call it quits in its 24 years with one or two on the brink right now. That is why leagues are so focused on financial stability now more than ever. That will not likely be an issue here...unless people decide to not show up to matches and spend money. This is why the culture is important.

Many of the Big 4 pro teams aren't sustainable? Which one or two MLS teams are on the brink right now? How do you know that a team such as DCFC wouldn't eventually fail? Do tell...

As to culture, are you trying to claim that Big 4 pro teams [[or MLS teams for that matter) don't have a culture? What type of culture are you speaking of with DCFC? Hopefully not the Northern Guard, because that is not most peoples idea of culture...and likewise, the NG would not want most people.