Snyder: bring 50000 immigrants to Detroit

[nain rouge]

The bankruptcy makes reversing this trend possible.

The idea that bankruptcy is a definite positive for Detroit strikes me as naive. In the long run, all bankruptcy actually does it make it harder for Detroit to borrow money. Any positive effects you might associate with bankruptcy are changes we could've made and made more effectively had Detroit not been forced to declare bankruptcy.

The truth is that people are secretly hoping that bankruptcy has destroyed the black power structure in Detroit. Don't lie - that's what most people in the metro area hope, even if they won't say it out loud. The thought is Detroit will get more white investment after the bankruptcy. Maybe. But it's still a stupid way to go about business.

[313WX]

The truth is that people are secretly hoping that bankruptcy has destroyed the black power structure in Detroit. Don't lie - that's what most people in the metro area hope, even if they won't say it out loud.
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That is truth though, if we're being honest.

Mike Duggan riding in to the rescue didn't happen until AFTER the consent agreement was signed. It was no coincidence.

[mwilbert]

The idea that bankruptcy is a definite positive for Detroit strikes me as naive. In the long run, all bankruptcy actually does it make it harder for Detroit to borrow money. Any positive effects you might associate with bankruptcy are changes we could've made and made more effectively had Detroit not been forced to declare bankruptcy.

No, they could not. The current deal with the banks on the swap debt could not have been reached without the bankruptcy--it almost wasn't reached with the bankruptcy. The changes in retiree benefits aren't final yet, but you can be reasonably sure that whatever they end up being, they wouldn't have been possible outside bankruptcy. Nor could the other proposed debt reductions, although again those aren't final so we will have to see how they turn out. But nonetheless I don't see how the balance sheet of the city without bankruptcy could have been anywhere near as good as it will be with bankruptcy. Which is the reason your assertion about Detroit's ability to borrow is probably also wrong--lenders care more about your actual financial condition than your past.

If you are talking about management, staffing, and operational changes, I expect in general those could have been done outside bankruptcy, but of course they hadn't been. Maybe just bringing in the EM would have been sufficient.

[nain rouge]

Which is the reason your assertion about Detroit's ability to borrow is probably also wrong--lenders care more about your actual financial condition than your past.

Sure, bankruptcy is all sunshine and rainbows. Hell, with the way you depict it, why shouldn't every city declare bankruptcy? Creditors cut you deals and continue lending to you like nothing ever happened.

Or not.

As a creditor, I'd imagine that you'd have much, MUCH tougher requirements for Detroit now. Detroit's population loss has yet to display any signs of bottoming out, and it's now proven that the state and federal government are only willing to go so far to bail Detroit out when it screws up financially. What's your incentive to float a loan so the city can fix streetlights on Fenkell?

Individuals looking to start businesses in recovering areas will still be able to get their hands on loans, of course, but the city is certainly going to have a rougher go of it.

[Gistok]

Sure, bankruptcy is all sunshine and rainbows. Hell, with the way you depict it, why shouldn't every city declare bankruptcy? Creditors cut you deals and continue lending to you like nothing ever happened.

Or not.

As a creditor, I'd imagine that you'd have much, MUCH tougher requirements for Detroit now. Detroit's population loss has yet to display any signs of bottoming out, and it's now proven that the state and federal government are only willing to go so far to bail Detroit out when it screws up financially. What's your incentive to float a loan so the city can fix streetlights on Fenkell?

Individuals looking to start businesses in recovering areas will still be able to get their hands on loans, of course, but the city is certainly going to have a rougher go of it.

Who says the city is having a rougher go of getting bond money for streetlight repairs due to the bankruptcy??
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/p...e/-/index.html

It may not be all sunshine and rainbows.... but it's sure a lot less bleak than the picture you paint....

[mwilbert]

Sure, bankruptcy is all sunshine and rainbows. Hell, with the way you depict it, why shouldn't every city declare bankruptcy? Creditors cut you deals and continue lending to you like nothing ever happened.

Because they aren't eligible? Bankruptcy is a perfectly sensible path for cities with intractable debt problems, but there aren't so many cities in Detroit's position. And if your budget is only a bit out of balance, putting your fate into the hands of a bankruptcy judge might not be such an appealing option.

As a creditor, I'd imagine that you'd have much, MUCH tougher requirements for Detroit now.

We will see. I'm guessing it will turn out to mostly be your imagination.

Detroit's population loss has yet to display any signs of bottoming out, and it's now proven that the state and federal government are only willing to go so far to bail Detroit out when it screws up financially. What's your incentive to float a loan so the city can fix streetlights on Fenkell?

What was a lender's expectation previously? Detroit wasn't actually creditworthy before the bankruptcy, which is why the city had to do things like pledge casino revenue in order to float bonds.

[aj3647]

The truth is that people are secretly hoping that bankruptcy has destroyed the black power structure in Detroit. Don't lie - that's what most people in the metro area hope, even if they won't say it out loud.

The pre-existing power structure in Detroit NEEDED to be destroyed since it was almost wholly and fully corrupt or incompetent. If that structure was a "black" one, then so be it. It changes nothing. I would also note that if the power structure in Detroit is defined as being black in nature, then that was just as much by the doing of black Detroit politicians [[using race as a shield to deflect criticism or appeal to the voters) as it was by the negative perceptions of white suburbanites.

Remember "Y'all's boy?" Remember Freman Hendrix being derogatorily referred to as "Helmut" to remind voters that he had a white mother? Remember Lonnie Bates and pretty much every single thing he said and did? The list goes on and on, it's freaking endless. Going all the way up to the latest generation, like George Cushingberry using the race card after what should have been a DUI stop.

[Wesley Mouch]

The idea that bankruptcy is a definite positive for Detroit strikes me as naive. In the long run, all bankruptcy actually does it make it harder for Detroit to borrow money. Any positive effects you might associate with bankruptcy are changes we could've made and made more effectively had Detroit not been forced to declare bankruptcy.

The truth is that people are secretly hoping that bankruptcy has destroyed the black power structure in Detroit. Don't lie - that's what most people in the metro area hope, even if they won't say it out loud. The thought is Detroit will get more white investment after the bankruptcy. Maybe. But it's still a stupid way to go about business.
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Completely true.

The power structure needed to be destroyed. It was dysfunctional and self-serving. It did not help the citizens.

Where you're wrong is that this has nothing to do with being a 'black' power structure. Its all about dysfunctional. Only a few wackos ever wanted to destroy the 'black' power structure. Most people just want good services for the majority-black citizens. Be it red, yellow, white, or purple.

Summary: Don't let thoughts about racism cloud doing good for citizens.