DTE SMART Meters. Watch OUT!

[MichiganMan]

DTE is scamming all of us. I decided to take a closer look at my DTE bill today. I noticed that I have been using energy on my interruptible A/C service. I guess it has been so warm here my family has been turning on the A/C while I was away during the day. Everyone denies turning it on. So… a call to DTE was in order. BACK STORY: Back in November DTE installed a SMART meter on my A/C circuit. The reading according to my November bill was 13 KWH used. The beginning meter reading was 0 KWH and the ending was 13 KWH. December was from 13 KWH to 23 KWH. January was 23 KWH to 35 KWH and for February it was 35 KWH to the current reading of 48 KWH. Now 48 KWH may not seem much too some DTE executive but for me it averaged $2.00 per month for nothing. If you add up the tens of thousands of homes with SMART meters, DTE is racking in MILLIONS of DOLLARS of free money. You are being charged for NOT using your A/C. BACK TO THE PHONE CALL: I spoke to a DTE customer service person and got the answer. Follow me on this one, they told me that the wind is causing my fan to spin on my outdoor compressor which turns the motor. The SMART meter is sensing the motor turning and is sending a signal to the meter that energy is being used. The solution to this is to flip the breaker in the basement to completely disconnect the circuit. Those with A/C on their regular line will have to go outside and pull the circuit by the A/C unit if they don’t want this phantom energy usage. The DTE tech said the old dial meter were not sensitive enough to register the usage caused by the wind and that is why there were no previous charges in past winters. What a scam DTE is running.

[Scottathew]

I don't know if I buy that explanation. Please post back when you get a bill that will reflect you flipping the breaker off.

I always turn the breaker off when "the season" is over.

Thanks for sharing this information.

[CrashDummy]

If the motor is turning, it will draw current. The energy usage is real, not phantom.

[Scottathew]

If the motor is turning, it will draw current. The energy usage is real, not phantom.

I'm not an electrical engineer, that's a fascinating point. Now I'm going to start Google-ing!

[rb336]

If the motor is turning, it will draw current. The energy usage is real, not phantom.

if the motor is turning because the wind is turning the fan, then it shouldn't be drawing current.

[Jerry Van]

If the motor is turning, it will draw current. The energy usage is real, not phantom.

They told her the wind was blowing the air conditioner fan blade causing the motor to turn. That's total bullshit. It will NOT draw current under those conditions.

Most likely, they have something on the interruptible circuit that they're unaware of. They should shut off the breakers and see what surprisingly also shuts off that they never realized was on that circuit.

[CrashDummy]

They told her the wind was blowing the air conditioner fan blade causing the motor to turn. That's total bullshit. It will NOT draw current under those conditions.

You're right that it will not draw current. Those were my stupid words. I should have said that it will induce a current. Whether or not the smart meter can detect that and charge them some small amount for having an active circuit, I don't know. But it's quite possible.

[JBMcB]

I should have said that it will induce a current. Whether or not the smart meter can detect that and charge them some small amount for having an active circuit, I don't know.

As another poster pointed out, the fan is switched off at this time, which means it's physically disconnected from the power circuit, probably via a relay. If power can't get to it, it can't send power back to the meter.

So, no, the fan spinning, generating electricity, and somehow causing a smart meter to detect upstream current as downstream current is complete hogwash.

[rb336]

I'm guessing the charges are the meter itself using energy to monitor your lack of use

[gvidas]

~12kWh/month = ~400 watts/day, or about 16.6 watts/hour if constant over 24 hours.

Ohm's law tells us that, at 120 V, you would require about 0.14 amps to produce 17 watts of power. So, you're looking at a phantom draw about on par with leaving a cell phone charger plugged in 24/7.

Point being, if you're serious about saving money on your electric bill, buy a Kill-a-watt meter and take a close look at the devices you leave always plugged in. Many common devices draw power even when they are not "on."

[[Also, I don't entirely buy their "wind blowing spins the fan" story; more likely, there's a transformer in the AC for a control circuit that is drawing power.)

[Meddle]

more likely, there's a transformer in the AC for a control circuit that is drawing power.

Most likely.

[wolverine]

~12kWh/month = ~400 watts/day, or about 16.6 watts/hour if constant over 24 hours.

Ohm's law tells us that, at 120 V, you would require about 0.14 amps to produce 17 watts of power. So, you're looking at a phantom draw about on par with leaving a cell phone charger plugged in 24/7.

Point being, if you're serious about saving money on your electric bill, buy a Kill-a-watt meter and take a close look at the devices you leave always plugged in. Many common devices draw power even when they are not "on."

[[Also, I don't entirely buy their "wind blowing spins the fan" story; more likely, there's a transformer in the AC for a control circuit that is drawing power.)

My utility provider swapped out my old-school surge protectors for new ones that shut off when no one is detected in the home. I've saved quite a bit of money since. It's amazing how much power appliances draw when you think they aren't in use but on stand-by

[detmsp]

Those with A/C on their regular line will have to go outside and pull the circuit by the A/C unit if they don’t want this phantom energy usage. The DTE tech said the old dial meter were not sensitive enough to register the usage caused by the wind and that is why there were no previous charges in past winters. What a scam DTE is running.

This makes no sense. If DTE's meters are recording energy consumption that isn't happening, then why would pulling the circuit change anything? Pulling the circuit would ensure your A/C isn't drawing any power... but if it wasn't drawing any power to begin with, you've changed nothing and should expect to see the same phantom charges. More likely, your A/C is drawing a small amount of power, just like a lot of things do when they are left off but plugged in.

[One Shot]

Wouldn't a spinning motor GENERATE electricity? They should be paying you!
A good possibility is a transformer or something still drawing even when the compressor/fan aren't.

[CrashDummy]

Wouldn't a spinning motor GENERATE electricity?

Yes, if you ran it in reverse.

[wazootyman]

You're not being scammed, you just do not understand where that energy is being consumed.

Your bill is most likely due to a small heating element within your outdoor air conditioning compressor. The heat that it generates prevents the mixing of crankcase oil and refrigerant, and also helps to prevent condensation.

Like others recommended, pull the fuse or switch off the breaker during the cold months. A word of caution: You should make sure to turn the power back on a day or so before you first operate the air conditioner in the spring or summer. That heater serves a purpose and should be allowed to heat the oil back to temperature before operation.

For what it's worth, I am an electrical engineer, but not an expert on refrigeration systems. I have, however, witnessed the heater phenomenon myself. I could see my old mechanical meter spin very slowly [[even with the AC turned off) until I pulled the disconnect in late fall.

The smart meter itself does consume some power [[a few watts), but you are not being charged for that.

Regarding the generation of electricity: The DTE representative was very much misinformed. I'm surprised they'd say something so...wrong. Even if you were able to pass energy back onto the line, the motor would have to be spinning at a rate to be synchronous with 60 Hz - 1,800 or 3,600 RPM [[as an example) to have any impact. That said, the motor is most likely electrically disconnected when it is not operating via mechanical relay contacts. So, no, the wind is not affecting your bill.

[sumas]

DTE is scamming all of us. I decided to take a closer look at my DTE bill today. I noticed that I have been using energy on my interruptible A/C service. I guess it has been so warm here my family has been turning on the A/C while I was away during the day. Everyone denies turning it on. So… a call to DTE was in order. BACK STORY: Back in November DTE installed a SMART meter on my A/C circuit. The reading according to my November bill was 13 KWH used. The beginning meter reading was 0 KWH and the ending was 13 KWH. December was from 13 KWH to 23 KWH. January was 23 KWH to 35 KWH and for February it was 35 KWH to the current reading of 48 KWH. Now 48 KWH may not seem much too some DTE executive but for me it averaged $2.00 per month for nothing. If you add up the tens of thousands of homes with SMART meters, DTE is racking in MILLIONS of DOLLARS of free money. You are being charged for NOT using your A/C. BACK TO THE PHONE CALL: I spoke to a DTE customer service person and got the answer. Follow me on this one, they told me that the wind is causing my fan to spin on my outdoor compressor which turns the motor. The SMART meter is sensing the motor turning and is sending a signal to the meter that energy is being used. The solution to this is to flip the breaker in the basement to completely disconnect the circuit. Those with A/C on their regular line will have to go outside and pull the circuit by the A/C unit if they don’t want this phantom energy usage. The DTE tech said the old dial meter were not sensitive enough to register the usage caused by the wind and that is why there were no previous charges in past winters. What a scam DTE is running.

Not quite on target but agree I do not trust Dte either. They installed some smart reader for general usage, satellite read or what ever! We get these reports every so often that say , "out of 100 comparable homes, you are the top user. We keep shutting down more and more possible energy drains and finally got a "congratulatory " letter saying we slipped to 92. Huh?

What got me thinking, was this same discussion came up on that chat thing they do on channel 2, 4 out of 4 said they were getting the same letters. Again Huh? That makes 5 of us, that said, what are they, our neighbors, doing that we are not? Something smells fishy!

Finally, we live in a community that all homes are a 100 plus years old and none are comparable. All different builders, all different sizes.

[Honky Tonk]

Not quite on target but agree I do not trust Dte either. They installed some smart reader for general usage, satellite read or what ever! We get these reports every so often that say , "out of 100 comparable homes, you are the top user. We keep shutting down more and more possible energy drains and finally got a "congratulatory " letter saying we slipped to 92. Huh?

What got me thinking, was this same discussion came up on that chat thing they do on channel 2, 4 out of 4 said they were getting the same letters. Again Huh? That makes 5 of us, that said, what are they, our neighbors, doing that we are not? Something smells fishy!

Finally, we live in a community that all homes are a 100 plus years old and none are comparable. All different builders, all different sizes.

Your home size, age, and layout has nothing to do with it, sumas.

[courtney]

Your home size, age, and layout has nothing to do with it, sumas.

Home size and age has a lot to do with heating and cooling based energy use.

I'm not sure if the DTE site has changed, but years ago for the "comparable usage" thing, the website had a spot to enter in the house square footage and age to help make more valid comparisons. Whenever we get one of those, it notes those values I put in and compares our usage with those that are similar.

The southern states tend to use more, probably for air conditioning.

Most people around here [[where we live in the winter, with family in Anderson County, South Carolina) have heat pumps. While a gas furnace wouldn't even be an option here [[no gas lines), even several friends and families who live in neighborhoods with gas lines have heat pumps. They are great for overall energy usage, however, when the area has an extra cold snap, the "emergency heat" strips suck down a lot of power. Not enough, my brother calculated, however, to make it cost effective to install a back-up gas furnace for the coldest days in the winter.

[sumas]

I've started turning off power strips, so am curious if power usage will decrease. The kitchen has a toaster oven, toaster and coffee maker. A separate strip for the microwave. The living area has an old tv, a charger for my fake smoke [[trying to quit), a hair trimmer [[don't ask) and our cell phone charger. Will report back to see if we realized savings.

[Honky Tonk]

Home size and age has a lot to do with heating and cooling based energy use.

Correct Courtney. But the thread was about a jump in electrical usage, not about heating costs, and that was what I was refering to. You could have a studio apartment, with every electronic gadget imaginable, and a McMansion with nothing but books and a wood burning stove, and electrical usage cost for the studio apartment will be higher. However you do bring up a good point, regarding the OP. If the heating system is forced air, because of the harsh Winter we've had, and the furnace is cranked up higher, and running longer, that would explain the rising increases in the electrical bill.

[CrashDummy]

Not quite on target but agree I do not trust Dte either.

Yes, thank you for bringing that up. I kind of got suckered into believing this was a real story. This is the kind of thing that gets passed around on Facebook or email along with the dangers of getting your kids vaccinated. For some reason we're supposed to hate the utility companies and the whole smart meter thing is being latched onto as some kind of devious scheme, instead of a necessary component of upgrading our woefully inefficient electrical infrastructure.

Regarding the generation of electricity: The DTE representative was very much misinformed. I'm surprised they'd say something so...wrong.

Of course. It is meant to make [[insert local utility name here) look foolish and petty. While it is technically feasible on a component level, it is near impossible on a system level. But, if anyone really believes it has anything to do with the smart meter, they're wrong. A smart meter puts subliminal messages in your head, nothing more. Just wrap your head in tin foil and I'm sure you'll be fine.

[old guy]

I went through my house last year and unplugged my DVD player which I rarely use, unplug all my phone chargers when I'm not using them and everything else that isn't in constant use. my savings have been rewarding.

There's a small device, I believe it's called kill-a-watt that costs about $20. You plug it into any outlet, then plug in any device to it and it will tell you how much energy is being used even when the device is not being used. Handy little unit. Google it. Big money saver especially if you pass it around to friends and family.

[old guy]

Smart meters are a good thing that will eventually help customers understand what's using the most power in households and should be helpful in cutting costs for those that are interested in doing so. They should have been implemented years ago. Eventually you should be able to also monitor them with your computer to realize savings and see what and where your house is inefficient. Time to update the grid.

[Muskie52]

You cannot be serious are you? This a dumb grid they are putting in. It will save no energy at all. When Time of Use billing hits us all we will be paying 3 to 4 times the normal rate. Initially it will be voluntary, then quicky be mandatory. The first step is to get that Smart Meter on your house. Then you cannot escape it and your bill will double. When will people realize that Utilities do not give a rip about consumers. The Smart Grid is the biggest scam in America. Show me one home where their electric bill went down with a Smart Meter, unless the home was unoccupied for an extended period. Every person I know that has a Smart Meter now has higher bills.