Sunday Assembly Detroit [[aka Atheist Church)

[noise]

Thank God you are here to protect us from religion.

I certainly don't view that as my responsibility, but I won't hide behind whatever smokescreen you've thrown up, either. It's the height of irresponsibility to forgo any introspection when it comes to your own beliefs and choices. That's exactly what you're advocating, despite your misplaced attempt to deny it.

[NickCharles]

I was actually trying to make a point, in a flatly serious way, about a matter which I take very seriously. I'm not going to pursue it any further with anybody who uses facetiousness as a weak last resort.

[noise]

Keep in mind, the entire discussion is taking place because a number of non-atheists decided to toss in their opinions about a "Atheist Church", as described clearly in the thread title.

[[And on page 2 I indicated my willingness to get mired in muck!)

[NickCharles]

Keep in mind, the entire discussion is taking place because a number of non-atheists decided to toss in their opinions about a "Atheist Church", as described clearly in the thread title.

And there is that, too, so any further comment from me-- because I could not care less about one more church opening in a city that appears to already house about 100,000 of them-- is a sort of thread-jacking.
Not that such a thing would seem out-of-place here, or anything.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I would suspect that the majority of athiests- who are not on anti-religious jihad, they just happen to not beleive in God- are appalled by the actions of those who "take on" religion. A real atheist has a live and let live attitude. I suspect most of the Sunday Assemblers are probably perfectly tolerant atheists. There just are not many posting here.

[MizMotown]

I guess we may get our answers when that clock strikes eh? lol... or we may not.

I'll pass on the Atheist church tho. Unity is my thing.

[noise]

I would suspect that the majority of athiests- who are not on anti-religious jihad, they just happen to not beleive in God- are appalled by the actions of those who "take on" religion. A real atheist has a live and let live attitude. I suspect most of the Sunday Assemblers are probably perfectly tolerant atheists. There just are not many posting here.

Can you point to a single instance of somebody "taking on" religion in this thread, seriously? Unless, in your world, a snippy, derisive statement constitutes "taking on" something.

It's funny how willing you are to bend over and be imposed upon. That's your idea of "tolerance", apparently. I don't demand anyone denies their god. Christians in America demand everyone worship their god, however.

[rb336]

At least 7 states illegally have laws that deny office to atheists. Our taxes go to provide fire and police service to religious institutions because they do not pay taxes. Christians want to make atheists "excuse themselves" from public discourse if we don't want to hear a prayer first. They want to teach utter bullshit as science. No thinking atheist should tolerate the imposition of your religion on the public sphere.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

It's funny how willing you are to bend over and be imposed upon. That's your idea of "tolerance", apparently. I don't demand anyone denies their god. Christians in America demand everyone worship their god, however.

Noise, when I bend over, it is by choice and after at least 3 dates. No one is imposing. I don't actually understand what you are claiming my definition of tolerance to be. I have never met a Christian who demanded that everyone worship their God [[granted, I was not alive during the Inquisition or the Crusades), let alone have and use the power to enforce it. We all act on our beliefs. When we date. When we shop. When we vote. I don't find it very tolerant to tell someone else: you can't act on your beliefs is those beliefs include religion.

At least 7 states illegally have laws that deny office to atheists. Our taxes go to provide fire and police service to religious institutions because they do not pay taxes. Christians want to make atheists "excuse themselves" from public discourse if we don't want to hear a prayer first. They want to teach utter bullshit as science. No thinking atheist should tolerate the imposition of your religion on the public sphere.


RB, I think you are forgetting a few things in your post. Houses of religious worship are not the only tax-exempt organizations. For income and some sales tax purposes, many non-profits are tax-exempt. Extending property tax exemption to other not-for-profits is an option local governments have. For practical purposes, a very large amount of our city has been tax exempt [[if not intentionally) for a very long time, and they still get [[poor) police and fire service. Consider as well the great number of people who benefit from social services, education, and health care provided by houses of worship, their staff and/or affiliated organizations. Would Detroit be better served if Focus:HOPE and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul paid a large amount in taxes? As far as prayer at public functions: it is wrong and clearly unconstitutional to impose the reciting of prayer on people. But no one is free not to hear one. You have a right to free speech, assembly, and no establishment of a state religion; people can still freely assemble and speak their own religious thoughts. Even at a public function. When the crazy Occupy fools were around town, my extreme disagreement with their words did not entitle me to shut them down. If people in government want to themselves say a prayer, they are free to do so. There happen to be a lot more religious people in public life than atheists. So, a lot of people might mention God. Harsh, divisive words for blessings, peace, and joy. The Oppression! I cannot speak for all Christian denominations, but the largest one, the Roman Catholic Church, embraces science and thinks that the more we learn about the world [[and the universe) only enhances our wonder about God and our relationship with Him. In fact, the Catholic church does more research and teaching in the sciences than all but a few organizations around the world.

But I wish God's blessings on everyone, especially the atheists. I like to think of myself as being tolerant, but this thread has worn down my Christian patience, and I shall apply my thoughts on other topics on other threads.

[Gistok]

Hehehe... Mikey, you should have been a comedian....

Ummmm to answer some of the rest of you.... why are you lumping all people of religion together in one pot? I'm a non-church going Lutheran... we don't tell anyone what they can or cannot do... although we are damn good at setting up Nordic named colleges with great choirs in Minnesota!

Implying that all of us are in the same boat as those nut-cases in Texas and elsewhere would be like saying all atheists have the friendly people skills of the late Madeline Murray-Ohare... it's just not true....

I have never told others what to believe or what not to believe in... so to have some of you otherwise intelligent posters throw everyone who does believe in God into the same stereotype as a vocal minority of Christians is rather surprising.

Come on now... you're smarter than that to go down that road!

[NickCharles]

... so to have some of you otherwise intelligent posters throw everyone who does believe in God into the same stereotype as a vocal minority of Christians is rather surprising.

Come on now... you're smarter than that to go down that road!

The written evidence speaks for itself and contradicts your optimistic assessment.

[Gistok]

The written evidence speaks for itself and contradicts your optimistic assessment.

OK... I stand corrected... then only some of you folks are smarter than that....

[3WC]

Noise: You state: "Christians in America demand everyone worship their God."

I'm a Christian and I don't demand ANYONE worship my God.

I'll bet you'd take back that allegation given an opportunity to realize you're beginning to sound like rb336.

I don' give a damn about what anyone believes or doesn't believe. Whatever gets you through the night.

[Zacha341]

Actually, the Bible itself refers to proselytizing and spreading the Gospel [[Christianity); the manner therein an issue of debate onward. Sure, there have been abuses in how the evangelizing has been accomplished.

That being said, proselytizing [[which is not the same as demanding) is not unique to America, or Christendom, or even religion!

Secularism [[at the extreme level) and the lust for power from the state [[when God becomes men) has wielded an iron hand of intolerant force to convert the masses. We need only look at world history to verify that.

It's my take, from the new testament, that the great commission is in part to give reason for the faith, teach and show witness to Christianity in ones walk, not arm twist.

In some countries Islam also proselytizes, in some aspects - as expressed state caliphate - demanding full obeisance as we see in Iran for example, and increasingly so in parts of Africa.

It's been an issue that many belief systems and world views have some form of exclusivity, or desire to be considered the final say... having elements that cannot be traded off or compromised.

Even sometimes the so called ultra tolerant non-exclusivists, 'exclude' the exclusivists. Hah!

Can you point to a single instance of somebody "taking on" religion in this thread, seriously? Unless, in your world, a snippy, derisive statement constitutes "taking on" something.

It's funny how willing you are to bend over and be imposed upon. That's your idea of "tolerance", apparently. I don't demand anyone denies their god. Christians in America demand everyone worship their god, however.

[Honky Tonk]

Can you point to a single instance of somebody "taking on" religion in this thread, seriously? Unless, in your world, a snippy, derisive statement constitutes "taking on" something.

It's funny how willing you are to bend over and be imposed upon. That's your idea of "tolerance", apparently. I don't demand anyone denies their god. Christians in America demand everyone worship their god, however.

Throw 'em to the lions, I say.

[Zacha341]

And some walked out of the lions den 'untouched', if you get where I am going.

Throw 'em to the lions, I say.

[Zacha341]

Tax exempt status of the church? Going away unless church changes:

The future 'Christian' church will be compelled to jettison and censor even its most core teachings and orthodoxy to retain federal tax exempt status - in obedience to the state, to maintain the set asides.

This is coming and already a discussion among those who've simply reasoned it out. And the adaptation as such is mentioned in the Bible.

You cannot have the government involved at such a level and believe there will be no impact on content. This is one of the reasons I flat-out refuse to be a member of a mega church. I feel that in some cases, they may be first to compromise to retain their largess and meet their mortgage obligations.

Discerning, rational church leaders/ members KNOW the end of tax exempt status is coming. The new church surviving sans the status, cutting government ties, will be less obligated to change content.

The emerging church will resume the style of the early church. Less artifice and flash.

There will return a more missionary, person to person, house to house form of worship and places of teaching in smaller 'assemblies'. A study of the some of the mission field in parts of Europe, Africa, Asia and other places show the church of the future in part.

The larger buildings and stadiums [[remaining as sites of turistification and approved orthodoxy) still receiving governmental non-profit status will have adapted. Salt without taste.

[rb336]

Noise: You state: "Christians in America demand everyone worship their God."

I'm a Christian and I don't demand ANYONE worship my God.

I'll bet you'd take back that allegation given an opportunity to realize you're beginning to sound like rb336.

I don' give a damn about what anyone believes or doesn't believe. Whatever gets you through the night.

Gave you facts to back up my comments. If you have an issue with those facts, why not address them directly?

[Honky Tonk]

Tax exempt status of the church? Going away unless church changes:

The future 'Christian' church will be compelled to jettison and censor even its most core teachings and orthodoxy to retain federal tax exempt status - in obedience to the state, to maintain the set asides.

This is coming and already a discussion among those who've simply reasoned it out. And the adaptation as such is mentioned in the Bible.

You cannot have the government involved at such a level and believe there will be no impact on content. This is one of the reasons I flat-out refuse to be a member of a mega church. I feel that in some cases, they may be first to compromise to retain their largess and meet their mortgage obligations.

Discerning, rational church leaders/ members KNOW THE END of tax exempt status, without dictate, is coming. The new church surviving sans the status, cutting government ties, will be less obligated to change content.

The emerging church will resume the style of the early church. Less artifice and flash.

There will return a more missionary, person to person, house to house form of worship and places of teaching in smaller 'assemblies'. A study of the some of the mission field in parts of Europe, Africa, Asia and other places show the church of the future in part.

The larger buildings and stadiums [[remaining as sites of turistification and approved orthodoxy) still receiving governmental non-profit status will have adapted. Salt without taste.

Compelling post.

[3WC]

rb: you state that AT LEAST [[there could be more?) 7 states illegally have laws that deny office to athiests.

I don't believe you. [[You may have found some states with archaic laws on the books which no one would ever attempt to enforce and nobody has taken the simple steps to delete or overturn as being clearly unconstitutional. Even Dredd Scott was the law for a time.)

Name the states.

[rb336]

rb: you state that AT LEAST [[there could be more?) 7 states illegally have laws that deny office to athiests.

I don't believe you. [[You may have found some states with archaic laws on the books which no one would ever attempt to enforce and nobody has taken the simple steps to delete or overturn as being clearly unconstitutional. Even Dredd Scott was the law for a time.)

Name the states.

Arkansas, Maryland, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas. Suits were filed during recent elections in SC and Maryland trying to block atheists from running, candidates were warned in Arkansas and Tennessee that attempting to remove those parts of the state constitutions would result in removal from office

[rb336]

Tax exempt status of the church? Going away unless church changes:

The future 'Christian' church will be compelled to jettison and censor even its most core teachings and orthodoxy to retain federal tax exempt status - in obedience to the state, to maintain the set asides.

Church and state both change for the worse when mingled.

[noise]

I'm glad you open-minded Christians have been standing side-by-side with atheists demanding that government removes all mention of or allusion to "God".

We have a lot of work to do!

[Zacha341]

^^^ Umm, yeah right. And Islam will stand by watching this - just doing nothing, presumably?........

[NickCharles]

^^^ Whaaaaat??
Some deliberately vague insinuations cannot be easily "heh-hehhed" away by the use of cute little "emoji's."