Lawsuit Challenging Michigan EM Law Proceeds

[professorscott]

Capitol idea! Detroit should just stiff all of it's creditors and pensioners, and supply immediate quality of life services to ALL of its citizens! With what? How? Now Detroit has a reputation of stiffing both pensioners and creditors. Who is going to come to work for Detroit? Who's going to give Detroit tires for the buses, computers for the administrators, GASOLINE for the vehicles, bullets for the cops guns? Would you? Would you extend credit to someone who just stiffed everyone they owed money to? If your answer is yes, I'd like to borrow $50 please. Not even Smokey the Bear would show up to put out a Forest fire, without cash up front.

You don't understand how lending works. General Motors went bankrupt and borrowed money on the same day. If you personally go bankrupt, right after it is discharged you will start getting credit card offers in the mail. A big company or a government, post bankruptcy, is not considered a particularly unusual credit risk.

Detroit, by the way, has had a very difficult time buying tires [[or anything else) for its buses, pre-bankruptcy, because the micromismanaging City Council decided that [[a) only critical vendors would be paid in any reasonable manner, and [[b) no vendor of bus parts is critical.

[ABetterDetroit]

Capitol idea! Detroit should just stiff all of it's creditors and pensioners, and supply immediate quality of life services to ALL of its citizens! With what? How? Now Detroit has a reputation of stiffing both pensioners and creditors. Who is going to come to work for Detroit? Who's going to give Detroit tires for the buses, computers for the administrators, GASOLINE for the vehicles, bullets for the cops guns? Would you? Would you extend credit to someone who just stiffed everyone they owed money to? If your answer is yes, I'd like to borrow $50 please. Not even Smokey the Bear would show up to put out a Forest fire, without cash up front.

A very simple explanation.
If creditors would simply continue to loan money to a entity that offers no hope of paying up, Detroit would not be in this fix. Unfortunately, [[in this case) math actually exist. With the size of debts Detroit has, the terms [[interest) to borrow money are way to high. Like it or not when any entity has income and no debts [[post bankruptcy) the salesman will jump out of their shoes to get a piece of that income. [[a fact of life in America)
As far as employees willing to work, whether or not their pay checks bounce is very much a leading factor. [[ including cartoon bears )

[Honky Tonk]

You don't understand how lending works. General Motors went bankrupt and borrowed money on the same day. If you personally go bankrupt, right after it is discharged you will start getting credit card offers in the mail. A big company or a government, post bankruptcy, is not considered a particularly unusual credit risk.

Detroit, by the way, has had a very difficult time buying tires [[or anything else) for its buses, pre-bankruptcy, because the micromismanaging City Council decided that [[a) only critical vendors would be paid in any reasonable manner, and [[b) no vendor of bus parts is critical.

Apples and oranges, Professor. GM still had a global brand name, inventory, and tangible goods. PLUS it's bankruptcy was backed by the Federal Government. GM's bankruptcy was calculated and controlled. I don't see that kind of management with the COD. In fact, lack of, is what got us here in the first place. The only inventory and tangible goods I see in the City, are the DWSD and the DIA, both now targets of contention by people who want to get paid. [[well, MAYBE Belle Isle too) Everything else is a liability. As much as people whine about their inalienable rights being taken away, Detroit is damn lucky Ricky and Orr are overseeing this transition, IMO. It @ least adds credibility that there is some kind of oversight. If it were left in the hands of the past powers that were, it would be a total cluster. I think without proper management in place, Detroit is going to have a hard time borrowing money, again. Just like the guy that bought a $365K house on a $24K a year salary.

[corktownyuppie]

Capitol idea! Detroit should just stiff all of it's creditors and pensioners, and supply immediate quality of life services to ALL of its citizens! With what? How? Now Detroit has a reputation of stiffing both pensioners and creditors. Who is going to come to work for Detroit? Who's going to give Detroit tires for the buses, computers for the administrators, GASOLINE for the vehicles, bullets for the cops guns? Would you? Would you extend credit to someone who just stiffed everyone they owed money to? If your answer is yes, I'd like to borrow $50 please. Not even Smokey the Bear would show up to put out a Forest fire, without cash up front.

This is isn't going to be a problem at all. Detroit will still have plenty of access to lending when necessary...but only because the lending will be guaranteed by a third party [[probably the state) and the city finances will be supervised by a state-appointed financial advisory board for 30 year like in NYC in the 80s.

I manage a rental property with a long-time tenant. He's a good man, but he has very unstable income because he's a freelance writer. A few years ago it got to the point where he was 2 months behind on rent going on 3. So I explained to him that he had to find a friend or a relative to co-sign and back the lease or we have no choice but to evict.

He found a relative to do it, and now I don't even worry about it if he's 2 weeks late on rent because I know that one phone call solves all the problems.

All focus now needs to turn toward improving city services and growing the tax base. If Duggan can do this, the City will turn around.

This is why I give no credence to this rumor going around that Whites are going to come back and try to make Detroit a White city again. There are 700k people in the city, approximately 600k are Black. To be financially healthy, we really need to add another 100k in taxpayers, at least. Do people really believe that anyone is going to try to displace 300k black Detroiters into the suburbs while simultaneously attracting 300k whites into the City?

I think what will happen is that Detroit will have to think of itself as a multi-party, multi-coalition, multiple-perspective city. But that's a good thing. It's pretty hard to compete on a global scale when your political identity is rooted in excluding all but a niche group as your electorate. It makes it impossible when that niche group is disproportionately poor.

anyway, I digress. Detroit will have plenty of access to capital. The people with the money are willing to help, but the people here in the city need to accept the oversight that comes with it.

[Hermod]

Detroit will have plenty of access to capital. The people with the money are willing to help, but the people here in the city need to accept the oversight that comes with it.

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

[Honky Tonk]

This is isn't going to be a problem at all. Detroit will still have plenty of access to lending when necessary...but only because the lending will be guaranteed by a third party [[probably the state) and the city finances will be supervised by a state-appointed financial advisory board for 30 year like in NYC in the 80s.

I manage a rental property with a long-time tenant. He's a good man, but he has very unstable income because he's a freelance writer. A few years ago it got to the point where he was 2 months behind on rent going on 3. So I explained to him that he had to find a friend or a relative to co-sign and back the lease or we have no choice but to evict.

He found a relative to do it, and now I don't even worry about it if he's 2 weeks late on rent because I know that one phone call solves all the problems.

All focus now needs to turn toward improving city services and growing the tax base. If Duggan can do this, the City will turn around.

This is why I give no credence to this rumor going around that Whites are going to come back and try to make Detroit a White city again. There are 700k people in the city, approximately 600k are Black. To be financially healthy, we really need to add another 100k in taxpayers, at least. Do people really believe that anyone is going to try to displace 300k black Detroiters into the suburbs while simultaneously attracting 300k whites into the City?

I think what will happen is that Detroit will have to think of itself as a multi-party, multi-coalition, multiple-perspective city. But that's a good thing. It's pretty hard to compete on a global scale when your political identity is rooted in excluding all but a niche group as your electorate. It makes it impossible when that niche group is disproportionately poor.

anyway, I digress. Detroit will have plenty of access to capital. The people with the money are willing to help, but the people here in the city need to accept the oversight that comes with it.

A few things. We both agree on one thing, just like your first car, Detroit is going to need a cosigner. Exactly what I said. If it were the previous administration, without the State's involvment, Detroit wouldn't have been able to pull this off as cleanly, IMO. I think they would've hocked the few assets left, DIA, Belle Isle, land, and the DWSD, in that order, and we would've been in worse shape, and with no borrowing power. I do take exception with the line I've highlighted. I would like to see TAXPAYERS come back into the City, period. They don't necessarily have to be White, nor does it mean White people are going to pay their taxes. In my work envioronment, there are plenty of Black, profesional, affluent, people, who too have left Detroit years ago, and won't come back unless there's dramatic change. You should hear some of the horror stories they tell from when they lived there. I bet if you get close and personal with some of the new White inhabitants, you'll find their "mailing address" is elsewhere. You, being a landowner and having made a significant investment in the City, like myself, probably have your fingers and toes crossed, hoping for the best outcome.

[Gannon]

I bet if you get close and personal with some of the new White inhabitants, you'll find their "mailing address" is elsewhere.

That is solely due to the insurance company scam pricing, as far as I can tell that is the only reason folks use elsewhere addresses legally. Well, illegally, but in the Robin Hood school of ethics it is quite justified. They are stealing from us, so it is the utmost importance of all stuck under the scam-sham to find a way around it.

Everything else leans towards having a Detroit address otherwise.


Cheers

[Honky Tonk]

That is solely due to the insurance company scam pricing, as far as I can tell that is the only reason folks use elsewhere addresses legally. Well, illegally, but in the Robin Hood school of ethics it is quite justified. They are stealing from us, so it is the utmost importance of all stuck under the scam-sham to find a way around it.

Everything else leans towards having a Detroit address otherwise.




Cheers

That and the fact they'd be paying Detroit taxes too. You'd be surprised.

[Wesley Mouch]

This is isn't going to be a problem at all. Detroit will still have plenty of access to lending when necessary...but only because the lending will be guaranteed by a third party [[probably the state) and the city finances will be supervised by a state-appointed financial advisory board for 30 year like in NYC in the 80s
...snip...
anyway, I digress. Detroit will have plenty of access to capital. The people with the money are willing to help, but the people here in the city need to accept the oversight that comes with it.

Coupla questions:

How do the laws to put this in place come to be? Does the EM law establish this, or a way there?

What percentage of Detroiters are part of the 'old think coalition' where what matters is black control over results? Over the past decade or so, the beginnings of rejection of the CAY black nationalist isolationism. I had hoped that the bankruptcy would put new energy and enthusiasm into Detroiters -- instead we get a lot of fighting over the sinking ship mentality. Is this a reflect of most Detroiters? Or does DY and the local media focus on things that don't really matter.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Coupla questions:

How do the laws to put this in place come to be? Does the EM law establish this, or a way there?

What percentage of Detroiters are part of the 'old think coalition' where what matters is black control over results? Over the past decade or so, the beginnings of rejection of the CAY black nationalist isolationism. I had hoped that the bankruptcy would put new energy and enthusiasm into Detroiters -- instead we get a lot of fighting over the sinking ship mentality. Is this a reflect of most Detroiters? Or does DY and the local media focus on things that don't really matter.

I think most Detroiters, including most black Detroiters, want good governent over anything else. Noisy obstructionists get more publicity, whether through frivolous lawsuits or finger-pointing, angry press conferences. But they aren't most people. They have agendas and vested interests in blocking bankruptcy, political change and private sector economic growth. And some people [[not most) that post here are in the same boat. Loathe as I am to paraphrase Richard Nixon, I think there is a "silent majority" of Detroiters who want safer streets, lower taxes, jobs, and decent schools. And they are happy for anyone who can deliver that.

[Honky Tonk]

I think most Detroiters, including most black Detroiters, want good governent over anything else. Noisy obstructionists get more publicity, whether through frivolous lawsuits or finger-pointing, angry press conferences. But they aren't most people. They have agendas and vested interests in blocking bankruptcy, political change and private sector economic growth. And some people [[not most) that post here are in the same boat. Loathe as I am to paraphrase Richard Nixon, I think there is a "silent majority" of Detroiters who want safer streets, lower taxes, jobs, and decent schools. And they are happy for anyone who can deliver that.

Duggan's election is your proof.

[Wesley Mouch]

Duggan's election is your proof.

I suppose that should be obvious. It was a close election... but maybe what I need to consider is that 10 years ago, a while guy would have been lucky to get 10% of the vote. So a move to 50% [[or so) is a five-times increase in willingness to accept the best candidate, not the one with... point your finger at the back of your other hand.