Car insurance in Detroit continues to be a racket.

[Hermod]

One thing to remember about all casualty insurance.

During the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s we were in an era of high interest rates. Insurance companies invested the premiums they got and made out like bandits on the investment income. In fact during much of the period, premium income was less than claims payouts. The insurance company investment for their reserves paid for the "subsidized premiums". It was worth it to take a loss on the premiums just to get the cash inflow.

Since 2000, interest rates have been negligible and insurance company income from investing their reserves is way down. Premiums now have to pay for claims, admin, and a share of profit.

[brizee]

Now the insurance companies are blaming customers for being bit by the Michigan's garbage roads.

Using the same ass backwards logic for getting a ticket for traveling in this nonsense.

Sometimes I wonder how Michigan still has ANY people living in it as many shit sandwiches we get fed.

[DetroitPlanner]

Now the insurance companies are blaming customers for being bit by the Michigan's garbage roads.

Using the same ass backwards logic for getting a ticket for traveling in this nonsense.

Sometimes I wonder how Michigan still has ANY people living in it as many shit sandwiches we get fed.

Don't mean a thing if you have a $500-$1,000 deductible. Most tires/rims are a lot less to fix. If you are driving a car with expensive rims, there is a good chance they won't be covered anyway as they are not spec [[i.e., folks who put 20" rims with low profile tires on instead of 16" rims).

[motz]

Now the insurance companies are blaming customers for being bit by the Michigan's garbage roads.

Using the same ass backwards logic for getting a ticket for traveling in this nonsense.

Sometimes I wonder how Michigan still has ANY people living in it as many shit sandwiches we get fed.

If we "resolve" that and the lifelong coverage "problem" they quote all the time, what do you guys think the next reason for performing a colonoscopy on your wallet will be?

[That Great Guy]

I think a property tax should pay for everyone's car insurance instead of paying for premiums. This way, we all pay instead of paying premiums to an insurance company.

The government can then control this costs to eliminate fraud and make it fair for everyone.

[Hermod]

I think a property tax should pay for everyone's car insurance instead of paying for premiums. This way, we all pay instead of paying premiums to an insurance company.

The government can then control this costs to eliminate fraud and make it fair for everyone.

Why not a very steep excise tax on automotive stereo equipment, cheap wine, and sneakers to pay for your gummint insurance policies?

[DetroitPlanner]

I think a property tax should pay for everyone's car insurance instead of paying for premiums. This way, we all pay instead of paying premiums to an insurance company.

The government can then control this costs to eliminate fraud and make it fair for everyone.

Yes lets put it in the hands of the property tax collectors [[Detroit & Wayne County. No fraud will be possible then!

[Marlon_JB2]

A friend of mine just recently purchased a vehicle and was shopping for insurance. She lives in 48235. We got quotes from every big company and got everything from $502/mo [[Geico) to $22,500/yr [[Liberty Mutual).
Meanwhile, I'm over here in 48224, paying $402/mo for *two* vehicles, both fully covered.

I don't understand it.

[Zacha341]

Gieco is very high, or it will get very high after the first 6 months honey moon premium. I have not used them for almost two decades.

[Zacha341]

Which is why I am glad my fairly old used car, while luxury level takes 15 inch alloy wheels standard. Just one less thing to deal with or increase premiums over.

Don't mean a thing if you have a $500-$1,000 deductible. Most tires/rims are a lot less to fix. If you are driving a car with expensive rims, there is a good chance they won't be covered anyway as they are not spec [[i.e., folks who put 20" rims with low profile tires on instead of 16" rims).

[That Great Guy]

Many people think Sales taxes are more fare then Property taxes because then everyone pays including tourists.

So, if we let Counties impose Sales taxes then that can pay for everyone's car insurance, which would be much better then paying many thousands per year without taxpayer support.

I think a one cent sales or penny tax would be enough if it was managed properly.

[Zacha341]

The government manages little properly.

I think a one cent sales or penny tax would be enough if it was managed properly.

[Hypestyles]

Has Duggan said he would support a lawsuit to address Detroit insurance rates?

[Hermod]

Many people think Sales taxes are more fare then Property taxes because then everyone pays including tourists.

So, if we let Counties impose Sales taxes then that can pay for everyone's car insurance, which would be much better then paying many thousands per year without taxpayer support.

I think a one cent sales or penny tax would be enough if it was managed properly.

Years ago I had a trailer in the gummint-run post trailer park in Aberdeen, Md [[yup, I was trailer park trash). The park was on a single electric meter and each month they divided the electric bill by the number of trailers in the park and you got a bill for that amount. It was expensive as all get out because a lot of the residents wouldn't buy heating oil [[then used to heat trailers from two 55 gallon drums on a rack at the rear of the trailer) but would use electric space heaters to heat their trailer because everyone was paying for it and the direct cost didn't land on them. I wonder if gummint insurance paid for by a tax wouldn't operate in the same way with people not taking care when the cost didn't land directly on them.

[That Great Guy]

Years ago I had a trailer in the gummint-run post trailer park in Aberdeen, Md [[yup, I was trailer park trash). The park was on a single electric meter and each month they divided the electric bill by the number of trailers in the park and you got a bill for that amount. It was expensive as all get out because a lot of the residents wouldn't buy heating oil [[then used to heat trailers from two 55 gallon drums on a rack at the rear of the trailer) but would use electric space heaters to heat their trailer because everyone was paying for it and the direct cost didn't land on them. I wonder if gummint insurance paid for by a tax wouldn't operate in the same way with people not taking care when the cost didn't land directly on them.

Wow, this is my point exactly. Car insurance in Michigan is racket all over and not just Detroit. It's just another tax and if you work at Wally-Mart and don't have bus service or can walk then you are fucked out of a months pay, if you want to be a law abiding person.

[Hermod]

Wow, this is my point exactly. Car insurance in Michigan is racket all over and not just Detroit. It's just another tax and if you work at Wally-Mart and don't have bus service or can walk then you are fucked out of a months pay, if you want to be a law abiding person.

Florida is a "no-fault" state and SE FL is ground-zero for insurance fraud, staged accidents, chiroprator-attorney fraud rings, and theft of cars for the Latin America market. I pay $4900.00 a year for full coverage on three relatively new cars.

[ABetterDetroit]

Sometimes I wonder how Michigan still has ANY people living in it as many shit sandwiches we get fed.

No kidding! I think that there are piles of them being fed to us for ONE underlying reason. We as a state are way to divided as a people. Look at anything. UP vs downstate, burbs vs Detroit, metro vs rural. It doesn't matter what the issue is it gets really hard to fix when there always is a pile a peeps in the state basically saying "fuck them". Other states are not like this...

Back on topic, Detroits auto insurance rates are unsustainable, maybe the party that controls Lansing should look at this problem and for the benifit of Detroiters AND the rest of MI residents do something for change. Having higher than average auto insurance rates in Michigan is just crapping on our recovery state wide.

[brizee]

D-Insurance is the name of the potential service.

It's probably a couple of years away if it ever comes to fruition.

Councilman Casteneda-Lopez and Spivey will be performing a feasibility study this summer.

[Wesley Mouch]

Has Duggan said he would support a lawsuit to address Detroit insurance rates?

I don't know... but the real solution isn't lawsuits.

We are assuming here that the insurance companies are evil entities that are sucking blood from Detroiters. No, they suck blood from everyone everywhere. Why do we think they target Detroiters? Answer: They don't.

There is a real problem here. But its not insurance companies.

The real problem is that the costs of Detroit insurance payouts is real. The insurance companies do their best to charge the customers what they pay out. That's how insurance works.

To solve this, you either limit compensation [[such as unlimited medical). You control costs. Reduce car theft. Or you socialize the cost and make the rest of the State join in and pay the costs for Detroiters. As you might guess they will resist.

Its not much different than healthcare. Reduce costs. Or bring in more people to pay.

But my main point is that blaming insurance companies is a mistake. They want to reduce costs almost as much as we do.

[softailrider]

I don't know... but the real solution isn't lawsuits.

We are assuming here that the insurance companies are evil entities that are sucking blood from Detroiters. No, they suck blood from everyone everywhere. Why do we think they target Detroiters? Answer: They don't.

There is a real problem here. But its not insurance companies.

The real problem is that the costs of Detroit insurance payouts is real. The insurance companies do their best to charge the customers what they pay out. That's how insurance works.

To solve this, you either limit compensation [[such as unlimited medical). You control costs. Reduce car theft. Or you socialize the cost and make the rest of the State join in and pay the costs for Detroiters. As you might guess they will resist.

Its not much different than healthcare. Reduce costs. Or bring in more people to pay.

But my main point is that blaming insurance companies is a mistake. They want to reduce costs almost as much as we do.

I would imagine you also believe that insurance companies hate natural disasters because of the amount of money they have to payout. As someone who has worked in the insurance industry for 34 years I can tell you insurance companies love them - it gives them a wonderful opportunity to raise rates for all policyholders.

[mwilbert]

I think a one cent sales or penny tax would be enough if it was managed properly.

It would not. The median household makes about $50,000/year. No more than 2/3 of that, probably less, would be spent on things that could be captured in a sales tax. 1% of $33,000 is $330. That is not enough to pay for a year's worth of auto insurance.

[mwilbert]

I don't know... but the real solution isn't lawsuits.

We are assuming here that the insurance companies are evil entities that are sucking blood from Detroiters. No, they suck blood from everyone everywhere. Why do we think they target Detroiters? Answer: They don't.

There is a real problem here. But its not insurance companies.

The real problem is that the costs of Detroit insurance payouts is real. The insurance companies do their best to charge the customers what they pay out. That's how insurance works.

To solve this, you either limit compensation [[such as unlimited medical). You control costs. Reduce car theft. Or you socialize the cost and make the rest of the State join in and pay the costs for Detroiters. As you might guess they will resist.

Its not much different than healthcare. Reduce costs. Or bring in more people to pay.

But my main point is that blaming insurance companies is a mistake. They want to reduce costs almost as much as we do.

Of course they want to reduce costs. What they don't want to reduce are prices. I don't know if they are overcharging or not, because Michigan doesn't require them to provide the information that would be needed to figure that out. It is possible that competition is keeping them honest. It is also possible that it isn't.

[Wesley Mouch]

I would imagine you also believe that insurance companies hate natural disasters because of the amount of money they have to payout. As someone who has worked in the insurance industry for 34 years I can tell you insurance companies love them - it gives them a wonderful opportunity to raise rates for all policyholders.

No. I agree with you here. And I don't think insurance companies are a force for good. Detroit is a natural disaster -- and I'm sure they don't give more than a few moments thought to her. Actuaries do the math. Rates set. Consumers complain. Shareholders happy.

But very little thought. Its just the system running wild.

Let's suppose for a moment that the insurance companies opened their books, and agreed to do Detroit insurance for free. Do you think this would reduce rates by 50%? No. But that's what's needed in Detroit. Removing the insurance company greed won't solve Detroit's insurance rate problem. The greed isn't the biggest problem. The biggest problem is the reality. Paying out too much. And not enough people in the pool.

Duggan's brilliance is that he is going to get the insurance companies to agree to solve this problem. Will he really setup an insurance plan? Probably not. But he knows he could. And he knows that is the one thing the greedy insurance companies won't let happen. That is an existential threat. Imagine what happens if Detroit goes rogue. Do you think Chicago, or Cleveland isn't watching?

Even bigger, no insurance company wants regulation. If they don't react here, that's another things that just might come their way. You can bet they are figure out how to best protect their income.

The next move is to the insurance companies. Don't expect big moves. But things will shift behind the scenes. Every future insurance idea around Detroit will be affected.

Before Duggan, the insurance companies ignored Detroit. Now, they know they need to work with Duggan to figure out how to keep the money flowing. It might dry up if they're not careful.

[Wesley Mouch]

Of course they want to reduce costs. What they don't want to reduce are prices. I don't know if they are overcharging or not, because Michigan doesn't require them to provide the information that would be needed to figure that out. It is possible that competition is keeping them honest. It is also possible that it isn't.

I doubt their are being 100% honest. For gosh sakes we're taking about insurance companies. Heartless is only the beginning of the description of their inherently evil ways.

As far as Detroit goes, don't flatter yourself to think they give much thought to Detroit. You think they care? You think they had a meeting and decided that Detroiters were the best people to over-charge? Well, I don't think so. But I wouldn't be surprised if an insurance company didn't take some advantaqe of us.

For years, Detroiters worry about a lot of unimportant things. We fight each other over pork. Council and Mayor fight. Detroit fights Lansing because they don't look like us [[point at back of hand at this moment). We fight against Taco Bell for wages. We fight everyone all the time for imagined slights about race [[not that real problems don't exist -- just that we find them everywhere). We elect fools like Cushingberry.

When you're so busy fighting each other and acting stupid, you can't fight for real change. [[You think Lansing cared about Detroit before Snyder? Ha. At least now there's someone in office who cares -- even if you don't like him.)

Now that we've elected someone with real world experience, and experience with setting up insurance programs... the game is changing. Don't think the evil insurance companies aren't watching. They might even realize just how absurd their Detroit rates are. More than half the battle is just getting something on the table from someone credible. That's something Detroit has never been able to do before.

[detroitrbychoice]

I hope Duggan will do something about it. I live in 48201 and just got a new ride. AAA [[the cheapest quote, oddly enough) wanted to charge me $480/month for insurance. I finally gave up and changed my address to my moms house [[ not in the city ). Went down to $90/month. Im all about paying my property and income taxes, but the insurance is outrageous. Fuck it, on paper I dont even live here any more.