What the Michigan Depot could look like

[noggin]

What the Michigan Depot could look like if Matty Moroun was not spending all his money buying off politicians.

http://www.hellyeahdetroit.com/2014/...d-it-out-pics/

[piczka]

So could the Packard Plant. Wait..........more jobs, restaurants, lofts and retail space.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I have never heard of a person, business, or government that had any money attached propose spending the 9 digits it would take to do a project like this. Lots of people can think up great plans for the station. I have several. But I don't have the money. One of the problems with the site is the office tower: it is not a natural fit for things you might do with the underlying station. There is also the fact the immediate surroundings are not the ideal background for a luxury hotel or high-end office tower or sparkling retail project. Therein also lies the opportunity: there could be a huge development of both the building and surrounding blocks. But that will take a long time, an intelligent vision, and a boatload of money. Matty Maroun is hardly the only roadblock.

I like the idea of a campus for a natural history museum, science center, aquarium & planetarium. But that would cost upwards of a billion dollars, not including the building reno. I hope someone redevelops it into something eventually. But it needs a person or a business or a government entity with the money as the first ingredient.

[Scottathew]

Therein also lies the opportunity: there could be a huge development of both the building and surrounding blocks. But that will take a long time, an intelligent vision, and a boatload of money.

Ding.

Hopefully we can see a larger scale [[blocks) residential neighborhood development succeed soon. All it will take is one or two and then "they" will get "it".

[renf]

Thank you for posting information about the great rehabilitation of the KC depot.
I have been there both before and after the rehabilitation. The effort to
restore that depot was very succesful. It could be done in Detroit.

[professorscott]

Well, the KC depot has the advantage that it is not two miles from anyplace that people want to visit.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Well, the KC depot has the advantage that it is not two miles from anyplace that people want to visit.

This is why I think envisioning Michigan Central as a contemporary transit hub is terribly misguided. Had the station originally been built in a more central location it might never have been abandoned and left to rot. It wouldn't make much sense in my opinion- plus it would be exhaustingly expensive- to make it a rail hub again. At least the current [[tiny & unremarkable) Amtrak station is both in a relatively busy midtown and on Detroit's main drag. I do think a better multi-service station should replace that, but it would be a fraction of the cost of renovating the old beautiful place, plus it is still in a better position relative to density and traffic. I am not sure that MCS could ever really justify its renovation cost, unless it was spread out over a large area of development. Here's to hoping!

[ghettopalmetto]

This is why I think envisioning Michigan Central as a contemporary transit hub is terribly misguided. Had the station originally been built in a more central location it might never have been abandoned and left to rot.

I don't understand this. Michigan Central Station functioned as a rail hub for decades. Suddenly, "it's too far away". Why the sudden change in paradigm? Did the building up and move?

Detroit Metro Airport is 23 miles away from downtown Detroit. It's even further from Brooks Patterson's business oasis of Oakland County. Yet people still use DTW, even with it's poor ground transportation.

So what other excuses do we have to consider besides Location?

[Hermod]

I don't understand this. Michigan Central Station functioned as a rail hub for decades. Suddenly, "it's too far away". Why the sudden change in paradigm? Did the building up and move?

Detroit Metro Airport is 23 miles away from downtown Detroit. It's even further from Brooks Patterson's business oasis of Oakland County. Yet people still use DTW, even with it's poor ground transportation.

So what other excuses do we have to consider besides Location?

It functioned as a rail hub because that is where the NYC/MC originated and terminated their many trains. With the elimination of passenger service through the Detroit-Windsor tunnel, the rationale for having a train station at that location disappeared. I don't see AMTRAK running that many intercity trains into and out of Detroit. Its location makes it useless as a transit hub for local rapid transit. The building is functionally obsolete and in the wrong location for repurposing.

[RO_Resident]

Well, the KC depot has the advantage that it is not two miles from anyplace that people want to visit.

Surprisingly, the KC station is relatively isolated. The station is surrounded by the WWII memorial and Crown Center to the south, and the tracks to the north. But, it is more along the lines of Joe Louis Arena isolation, not MCS isolation. [[I had a very nice meal at the Pierpont's restaurant in the station a few years ago. The rehab looked very nice.)

One advantage the KC station has is that it spread out horizontally. It seems like it is always harder to infill vertically. I'm not saying it is impossible, just that it is harder.

[royce]

Matty Moroun bought the MCD to keep others from using it as a transportation hub. That would be competition to his bridge empire. He couldn;t have that. The only realistic renovation could have come from MGM making it their permanent casino. The space in front of MCD and even the warehouse nearby could have been used for the new casino. MGM spent 750 million for its new digs. At that price the MCD would have been the only non-Moroun entity that could have pulled off the renovation.

With the development of Slows, the Mercury Bar, and other restaurants in that area, Roosevelt Park would be ideal for additional retail and residential. A renovated MCD could fit in with that plan. However, as long as Moroun owns the MCD, nothing positive is going to happen, period.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Matty Moroun bought the MCD to keep others from using it as a transportation hub.

Royce, I don't understand how the MCS posed a threat to his trucking empire. Freight rail already permeates Michigan, Ontario, and the Great Lakes region as a whole. Would someone else have made the station into the most luxurious waiting rooms for coal and taconite pellets imaginable?

With the development of Slows, the Mercury Bar, and other restaurants in that area, Roosevelt Park would be ideal for additional retail and residential. A renovated MCD could fit in with that plan. However, as long as Moroun owns the MCD, nothing positive is going to happen, period.

I doubt seriously that Roosevelt Park would be turned into retail and residential. If you meant turning the station and tower into retail and residential I have one question for you: how many generations would go by before the stores and apartments recouped the $100M estimated cost of redeveloping it? The Book Cadillac is struggling to make it's loan payments, and it was a MUCH less expensive reno than MCS would be. And it got lots of tax credits. And it is centrally located. And the business climate in its vicinity is rapidly improving and is infinitely better than the MCS area.

You said Matty won't let any positive thing happen to MCS, period. Well, have you ever heard of anyone ever bringing a large chunk of money to the table to work wonders on the place? Of course not. No one ever has, before or after Matty's purchase. Without a huge subsidy of some sort, it just doesn't have the capacity to be a profitable venture. When Developer X presents a $150M redevelopment plan, complete with how he'd get the money, and Matty refuses to sell to him, then I will agree that Matty is the problem. Until then, I am quite certain that the building's condition and location are the main reasons no one has attempted it.

[wolverine]

I still think it could be a train station and a hotel. Get a ton of federal and state money to revive it and have a modern train tunnel so I can go to downtown Detroit from Chicago or on to Toronto on high speed rail.

The "too far from downtown" argument has always been weak. So is the new center station, and the streetcar won't help except allowing me to avoid a bus or taking a cab. Many, but not all cities have the rail station away from the geographical center of downtown....Chicago, Philly, Cincinnati just some off the top of my head. Building a stub connection for probably a mere $150 million [[pocket change for transit projects) could link the station to downtown.

The tower is perfect for a hotel and your lower levels function as waiting spaces and museum....or perhaps holiday travel overflow and event space like the unused historic Chicago Union Station...which most of the time does nothing except look pretty

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I still think it could be a train station and a hotel. Get a ton of federal and state money to revive it and have a modern train tunnel so I can go to downtown Detroit from Chicago or on to Toronto on high speed rail.

When the pot o' gold shows up, let me know.

[wolverine]

When the pot o' gold shows up, let me know.

it's been there with no takers.

[beachboy]

I still think it could be a train station and a hotel. [...] Chicago, Philly, Cincinnati just some off the top of my head...

Did you say "Cincinnati"? As in:



At the risk of sounding like a "broken record" [[kidz today don't know what
that means...) this marvellous space is equipped with a large E.M. Skinner
symphonic pipe organ [[known as the "Wotan" organ):

http://www.musicincincinnati.com/sit..._Terminal.html



Hear the sounds yourself: http://www.ohscatalog.org/emskatunteci.html

[Khorasaurus]

Honestly, I think the best bet for the MCS is to stabilize it in its current condition, up-light it [[as has been done), and re-develop around it [[as is currently happening).

It's a tourist attraction because of its ruined state and actually draws people to that area that then patronize the businesses. Instead of trying to save it, we should embrace it how it is and make the neighborhood around it the best it can be. It can be a memorial to Detroit's dark times. This way, development capital can be spent in more productive ways.

The priorities in that area should be sprucing up Roosevelt Park, fixing the bizarre traffic pattern at Michigan/Vernor/14th, renovating the CPA building, and infill along Michigan.

[Chinman]

i have shot MANY music videos at the Train Station...Just because it is a Ruin! Michael Bay has used it in three[[3) of the Transformers Movies because of its look and faulty look. I have been inside setting up shots and had cement falling on our heads. it is beyond repair unless on has MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS to repair!

[eliboyer]

I've always thought that MCS could be like the Ferry Building Marketplace in San Francisco...

http://www.ferrybuildingmarketplace.com/

[mikeg19]

I think realistically the three ways MCS get's redone is

A) if some pie-in-the-sky plan by some big name developer comes along and does it. Someone like a Donald Trump, any person who can throw away a ton of money and not give a shit. Does it mean the development is successful and lasts? No. But it's an idea.

B) Corktown continues to re-brand itself and develops more and more. MCS is almost entirely surrounded by new developments or potential developments [[CPA Building anyone?). Obviously this will take some time. Maybe Matty or a developer at that point will be willing to sink in the money required to turn it into a hotel/convention center/planetarium/residential/whatever.

C) Last but not least [[although most probable in my opinion) is tearing down the tower and keeping the grand entrance way. You can still have a railway station out back [[assuming high speed links Detroit to Ann Arbor or Dearborn at some point) and use the remaining space as whatever you could imagine. I'm curious to see what the delta is between redeveloping the entire structure vs the entrance.

[Wesley Mouch]

...I'm curious to see what the delta is between redeveloping the entire structure vs the entrance.

The delta will be very large. Rehab of the high-rise is a major rehab project. [[I'd say about 10 times the lobbies).

The tower will be rehabilitated if and only if there's an economic need for office space.

The big question is what the use for the lobbies would be? Outside of casinos, its hard to imagine anyone needing that size/quality of space badly enough to pay the restoration costs.

The tower is the bigger problem. I'm sure it could be rehabbed. It would be on the expensive end of historic rehabilitation since the structure is probably not the fireproof style of the Book, Fox, Broderick, etc. That'll make it a really hard project to get done. The best we can hope for would be a stablization for a few million now. Windows, roof, major structural perhaps, and then just a modest amount of heat to keep it dry. To save that kind of asset would be worth it to me, so long as someone else's money could be used.

[DetroitPlanner]

Forget this place. Let it rot. We should be instead focusing on making WC3D look more like the richardsonian train station that it replaced!

[douglasm]

It might be constructive to look at the work done by the Central Terminal Restoration Corporation and their attempts at restoring the Buffalo Central Terminal, and to a lesser extent, the work done to save the Tacoma [[WA) Union Station.

The CTRC has worked long and hard at saving the terminal, and has realistic goals and understand the problems they're facing in saving the building. Although the website is "under construction", the tabs all work, and the FAQs are really quite interesting.

http://buffalocentralterminal.org/

[Hermod]

Union Station on Fort Street [[long gone now) was a much more distinctive building than MCS and should have been saved instead.

[royce]

Khorasaurus, I agree about fixing the traffic pattern in that area. First, there is no way that you should not be able to make a left on to Vernor from Michigan. Simply, turn the one-way lanes heading northeast into two-way lanes, which would serve the same function as the current one-way lanes heading southwest. Then build some retail storefronts/residential along Michigan Avenue where Roosevelt Park now stands [[the park would just be smaller but continue behind this development. MCS would be our Acropolis or Roman Coliseum.