Considering Highland Park

[Dan Wesson]

Izzy, is there a wife and school age children involved?

[izzyindetroit]

Izzy, is there a wife and school age children involved?

Just the wifey.

As far as schools go... at a minimum there are 5-6 years until we will have to cross that bridge.

[mwilbert]

A high percentage of the listings in HP are still foreclosures. You might want to subscribe to RealtyTrac [[I think they do a free seven-day trial) to see what is currently available.

[Islandman]

There are some pockets in HP that are still "decent". West of Woodward, south of Davison, east of Oakland isn't horrible. I currently have family members that live in the area, and have for the past decade or more, and they haven't been pillaged yet. I have been less of a victim of property crime to my car in HP than when I lived in Hamtramck, though I write that off to more teenage hood rats cruising on Jos Campau than in HP. Hamtown is definitely more walkable. I would not buy anything in either place.

[Bham1982]

It has all of the infrastructure, location, and the remaining architecture most cities would die for yet somehow manages to have this large stigma.

This has to be a troll post.

Can you explain the "infrastructure, location and architcture" in HP that most cities would die for?

They don't even have functional running water or electricity delivery. They don't have functional services. Their schools are so bad they were disbanded. They have the highest crime rate and lowest per capita income in the entire state. They have more vacant lots than buildings. Their mayors and city managers have a habit of ending up in prison. Their property values, in most of the city, are near 0. The library and most civic facilities are just rotting away.

Granted, there are probably mostly good people in HP. Maybe even overwhelmingly good people. Some of the nicest people I've met in life live in some of the crappiest areas. Doesn't mean HP is a good place to live.

[izzyindetroit]

This has to be a troll post.

Can you explain the "infrastructure, location and architcture" in HP that most cities would die for?

They don't even have functional running water or electricity delivery. They don't have functional services. Their schools are so bad they were disbanded. They have the highest crime rate and lowest per capita income in the entire state. They have more vacant lots than buildings. Their mayors and city managers have a habit of ending up in prison. Their property values, in most of the city, are near 0. The library and most civic facilities are just rotting away.

Granted, there are probably mostly good people in HP. Maybe even overwhelmingly good people. Some of the nicest people I've met in life live in some of the crappiest areas. Doesn't mean HP is a good place to live.

INFRASTRUCTURE
Well for starters, the "older" Cities of Southfield and Warren along with newer planned developments in the likes of Cherry Hill Village in Canton have realized that people do still walk and enjoy walking places. HP is on a traditional street grid with existing sidewalks, alleys, and hell even underground street crossings. The homes and buildings were built for higher density, albeit missing or destroyed today in most cases. Then there is the independent water system. Granted Detroit is currently supplying water to the City, the infrastructure is there to resurrect.

LOCATION
On Woodward, with the Davison running through it connecting to I-75 and M-10. There are destined to get light rail if Detroit ever wants to connect Jefferson with 8 Mile.

ARCHITECTURE
The greatest amount of arts and crafts style homes this side of California are in Highland Park MI. http://www.mibungalow.com/highlandpark.asp There are also some great Art Deco designed buildings as well. Then you have the Ford HP Plant which changed America.

[renf]

Highland Park includes about a dozen architecturally interesting churches, quite
a few of them listed on the National Register of Historic sites. The MacGreagor Library is a fabulous building.
For its very small size, Highland Park has a great array of homes and buildings. It would be a good place to give a walking tour for those interested in architecture.
Light rail on Woodward will sure help.

[Bham1982]

HP is on a traditional street grid with existing sidewalks, alleys, and hell even underground street crossings.

Who cares? What you're describing is true for most of the planet. Highland Park's sidewalks are mostly ill-maintained, ruined, or nonexistent at this point, and it isn't safe for anyone to be strolling around Highland Park, for obvious reasons. My brother was chased by feral dogs in a far better Detroit neighborhood, and I would never wander aimlessly around HP. And the overall urban feel of HP is largely destroyed, with most buildings gone.

On Woodward, with the Davison running through it connecting to I-75 and M-10. There are destined to get light rail if Detroit ever wants to connect Jefferson with 8 Mile.

Again, who cares? Tons of cities are on Woodward, good and crappy. You aren't particuarly close to decent shopping, services, or job centers, except for downtown. There's nowhere to get a sit down meal, to take your kids, or even to safely pump your gas. No schools, no libraries, almost nothing besides the two ghetto strip malls right on Woodward.

The greatest amount of arts and crafts style homes this side of California are in Highland Park MI.

That's quite obviously absurd. There are entire towns on the East Coast or in the inland West made up of nothing but Arts and Crafts homes. And no one cares about house architecture if the homes are largely ruined or gone and the neighborhood is a post-apocalyptic war zone.

Then you have the Ford HP Plant which changed America.

Yes, rotting auto factories are huge draws for residential living...

Listen, feel free to move to HP. They could use more of a tax base. I'm sure plenty of residents are wonderful people. But don't try and convince everyone that the sky isn't blue. HP is depressed and derelict for very obvious reasons; it's probably among the least desirable places to live anywhere in the U.S. or even the entire developed world.

[illwill]

Not so. Site admin Lowell moved from his beautiful arts and crafts primarily because it was an opportune moment to sell a house he lived in for 27 years with no bars on it, restored to the point where it sold for several times what he paid for it at the height of the white flight and made a debt-free move to his current bucolic setting. He didn't flee and lose. He invested and won.

My neighbors were not crackheads, they were kind and caring and when a household made the mistake to dabble in drugs we banded together and got authorities to drive them out. My son who was home-birthed there grew up lovingly watched over and protected as were all other neighbor children. You will never understand how protective of each other, and particularly children, you become when danger is nearby.

The only time our house was broken into, it was entered by a 13 year old on the street who knew where our secret key was because his sister fed our cat on our vacations. He was dumb enough to do it in winter and I followed his tracks home. His dad marched him back the next day with the stolen cash.

Yes Highland Park has crime and other problems but that served to bond us as neighbors, far more than any other neighbors I have had before or since. This is the face of Highland Park you will NEVER see by just driving around or reading generalizations like many of those written above.

The lesson is this -- Highland Park is an option but take the extra step of introducing yourself to the neighbors beside, behind and across from you. It is important to connect with that almost secret society. They will be delighted to know your good intentions, clue you in and watch over you. Like Detroit, Highland Park is a city of islands. Find one, move there and you will be the cat that swallowed the canary with everyone wondering how you could live there, having their jaws drop at the magnificence of your house that you paid so little for, while you are smiling. Don't ever try to explain because they will never understand or think you are lying.

There are two designated historic home districts, northwest and southeast Highland Park. Focus there. Generally, but not always, the closer Woodward the better the houses. Since the 2008 collapse one can currently buy incredible arts and crafts houses for rock bottom prices. Be aware that many houses are sold FSBO like I bought and sold mine -- outside the realtor network -- so knowing someone there with an ear to the ground is a big advantage. Here is the website I created to sell my house which is typical of what you can expect to find. http://bhere.com/house/45colorado.htm Another buy-low sell-high moment exists - all you have to do is be brave and open-minded. Then retire to the country.

Finally, Highland Park is a village of sorts that runs on a first name basis. With a population of 11-12K your city council people, mayor, civil servants are all accessible. You will run into them shopping groceries and elsewhere. It's not a big faceless bureaucracy like Detroit -- another thing one will never get from drive through and reading negative press.

I'm glad you spoke up Lowell. To hear people trashing Highland Park the way everyone trashes Detroit is something else. Long time Detroiter's have been getting that same negative advice for years and still do to this very day.

I'd say go where ever your dollar can get you in. I'm sure H.P. has a lot of nice people living there and not just crackheads. Maybe pick your block carefully. I'm sure many nice people would love to have a nice addition to the neighborhood and another set of eyes and ears.

You're obviously no complete stranger to Highland Park/Detroit. Crime is all over the city of Detroit too [[not sure what people are thinking). The only thing you "might" want to worry about are city services and how much you pay. Aside from that, it's no different than Detroit.

[Dan Wesson]

No way in Hades would I subject my children to living like I had to, growing up where I had to in the D.

From my experiences I couldn't really tell that much a difference HP from Detroit. I worked in the neighborhoods, in the houses, met all kinds of people. Did it for 12 years. I have had cops tell me that if I knew what was going on in some of the homes I would go into, that I wouldn't go in.

Believe me I would have loved to live in suburban Oakland or Macomb County. I just could not afford it. I saw the inner city become the middle city and now the whole city. The trend is there. The only reason I see for living on the edge of misfortune is for a handsome profit or can't afford to live elsewhere.

[nain rouge]

The more I think about, Highland Park could be a quite a dark horse in the gentrification of Detroit. Just to south you have Boston-Edison, which has been teetering between slow decay and gentrification for years, but could quickly be fixed up if the positive movement continues in Midtown.

Then, right to the north, you have Palmer Park, which has seen significant reinvestment. It's still rough, but the raw potential is there.

Plus, those neighborhoods - like Highland Park - suffer from a lack of identity, which hipsters like because it makes stamping their imprint on the surroundings easier. And if those two neighborhoods turn around, it's hard to see how Highland Park fails to benefit. It was built for density and has just enough bones left for a revival.

Not that I'm sure it'll happen. But it is intriguing. Already, the gentrification has just about reached up to Grand Boulevard. Granted, it's a very ragged and potholed gentrification, but it's a significant change nonetheless.

[Dan Wesson]

Nain. now you went a done it. Gentrification, now I'm going to have to study upon this.

I'm starting here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification

No telling where it's gonna lead, but I do know it's some what controversial.

[NickCharles]

So the most spirited defense of the city comes from a guy whose Bottom Line is "I moved out?"

[Dan Wesson]

Nain. now you went a done it. Gentrification, now I'm going to have to study upon this.

I'm starting here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification

No telling where it's gonna lead, but I do know it's some what controversial.

Ya know I seem to remember a lot of talk about Gentrification of the New Center area back in the late 70's and early eighties.
Talk of cul de sacs and barricades and isolating the area was tossed to and fro.

Here it is forty years later, how did all that work out?

Considering the flight of the bourgeois and the subsequent rise in the peasantry.

If you stand back without any preconcieved biases, if that is at all possible, Gentrification make take generations, if that is at all possible.

[mwilbert]

Ya know I seem to remember a lot of talk about Gentrification of the New Center area back in the late 70's and early eighties.
Talk of cul de sacs and barricades and isolating the area was tossed to and fro.

Here it is forty years later, how did all that work out?

The area GM helped fix up still looks pretty nice. I'm not sure how gentrified it is, but I expect that to be one of the places a theoretical Midtown overflow spills into. But that is still quite a way from Highland Park. I don't think HP gets signficant spillover from the south for a long time, although I do think that if they had run the M1 that far north, it would have accelerated the process.

[Hi and Goodbye]

Exactly.

Seems to me HP is currently in a better state as a city both politically and financially than both Detroit and hamtramck.

I am looking for logical and concrete evidence on why I should not buy a home in highland park.

Logically speaking, you would have to listened to the reasoned arguments of people who have lived there or spent time there. The few people I know who have tried to make a go of it in HP, have not walked away unscathed. A jewish friend got swastikas painted on her garage, and broken into [[multiple times). Another friend bought a house in HP, first house on the block off Woodward. His wife had to leave him, for the sake of their children. They got broken into repeatedly and she could no longer take it, not to mention the state of the public schools.... very bad. His house is now abandoned. There was no way to safely live there for him. The crime became all to much. So buyer beware.

[masterblaster]

The issue I would have is that the city is THREE square miles, has no downtown and has all the problems that Detroit has.

Actually Highland Park had a Downtown, a 2-3 block remnant still exists on Woodward north of the Davison Freeway. It's in pretty bad shape.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=WOODW...Z0NdDVyRZkh-tg

[masterblaster]

I'm glad you spoke up Lowell. To hear people trashing Highland Park the way everyone trashes Detroit is something else. Long time Detroiter's have been getting that same negative advice for years and still do to this very day.

I'd say go where ever your dollar can get you in. I'm sure H.P. has a lot of nice people living there and not just crackheads. Maybe pick your block carefully. I'm sure many nice people would love to have a nice addition to the neighborhood and another set of eyes and ears.

You're obviously no complete stranger to Highland Park/Detroit. Crime is all over the city of Detroit too [[not sure what people are thinking). The only thing you "might" want to worry about are city services and how much you pay. Aside from that, it's no different than Detroit.

I also don't understand the disdain for HP. These folks are trashing Highland Park like the people on the Freep forums bash Detroit. These guys talk about crackhead this and crackhead that. Doesn't Midtown have a ton of crackheads still? Isn't Boston-Edison surrounded by crackheads too? The whole city has crackheads and zombies walking at all hours of the night.

[gnome]

Masterblaster, it is my feeling that folks are intolerant of things they are not accustomed to. That goes for everyone. If you grow up around X you don't feel threatened by X.

That is central to evolutionary success.

Way back just after our relatives fell out of trees, they developed a keen suspicion of anything that was outside their known realities. "Hmm, that growling isn't a hungry tummy, it is a hungry lion and I had better get a move on"

By extension the reason folks are intolerant of Detroit and HP is because they didn't grow up around chip bags, crackheads and 67 mills as an acceptable tax rate.

that does not mean there is anything negative about any of those things, but it does mean that if you aren't inured to them you find them unusual and therefore dangerous.

To the OP and anyone else who comes here asking where to buy a house: don't .

Don't ask because all you get are opinions supported by selective facts to support those opinions.

Don't ever buy anywhere without renting first. The rationale might seem obvious behind renting, but let me be clear: RENTING EXPOSES YOU TO LESS FINANCIAL RISK.

[masterblaster]

Masterblaster, it is my feeling that folks are intolerant of things they are not accustomed to. That goes for everyone. If you grow up around X you don't feel threatened by X.

That is central to evolutionary success.

Way back just after our relatives fell out of trees, they developed a keen suspicion of anything that was outside their known realities. "Hmm, that growling isn't a hungry tummy, it is a hungry lion and I had better get a move on"

By extension the reason folks are intolerant of Detroit and HP is because they didn't grow up around chip bags, crackheads and 67 mills as an acceptable tax rate.

that does not mean there is anything negative about any of those things, but it does mean that if you aren't inured to them you find them unusual and therefore dangerous.

To the OP and anyone else who comes here asking where to buy a house: don't .

Don't ask because all you get are opinions supported by selective facts to support those opinions.

Don't ever buy anywhere without renting first. The rationale might seem obvious behind renting, but let me be clear: RENTING EXPOSES YOU TO LESS FINANCIAL RISK.

Gnome, you don't post as much as you used to, but you are always insightful and funny. I understand what you are saying about what people are accustomed to, and I think that your suggestion to rent is a great idea. Perhaps the OP can find a homeowner who is willing to do a 1-2 year lease with option to buy.

[gnome]

Masterblaster, Having gotten to know you, and others, is one of the blessings about being a forum member and the strongest reason I have for sticking around.

I don't post as much as I used to because of threads just like this one. A bunch of blowhards wielding cudgels of self importance as though they were immutable truths is kind of a downer.

The fun-factor has been bled out of this place, but knowing that good guys like you are still around keeps me here.