Detroit Public Transportation: 2014 and beyond.

[Junjie]

^^Kind of reminds me of the scene in "Annie Hall" with Marshall McLuhan.

"You know nothing of my work!"

http://youtu.be/sXJ8tKRlW3E

Haha, well, I don't want to be unfair to MikeyinBrooklyn. I understand how fantasy maps can come across - "hey, if you'd just spend that extra $30 billion you have on building the New York Subway in Detroit, you'd turn Detroit into New York!" - and I certainly can't expect anyone to read my mind.

[That Great Guy]

Tax shifting to shut down handicapped facilities or essential bus service for workers is illegal.

Please know this when voting on mass transit or transportation tax proposals

Please learn the facts to protect everyone's rights, put safety first, make the best use of limited tax dollars and improve mass transit.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Haha, well, I don't want to be unfair to MikeyinBrooklyn. I understand how fantasy maps can come across - "hey, if you'd just spend that extra $30 billion you have on building the New York Subway in Detroit, you'd turn Detroit into New York!" - and I certainly can't expect anyone to read my mind.

Thank you, Jackson. I understand your point. By the way, $30B doesn't go very far in NYC on a transit project! I can see how dream plans can be helpful, like touring luxury homes before renovating your house: you aren't going to build a mansion, but you want some inspiration. I just get tired of the people, who might otherwise be serious, that demand something waaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion with what would work in Detroit. We need to have a way to pay for what we want, and it can't rely on outside sources [[although such money is welcome if we get it). And it also needs to have a realistic chance of getting a good amount of riders when built, with a determined source of the subsidy revenue. The worst thing we could do is build a an elaborate system that doesn't get riders or that we can't afford to keep running [[including during a recession when governments are looking to cut).

[Eber Brock Ward]

Tax shifting to shut down handicapped facilities or essential bus service for workers is illegal.

Please know this when voting on mass transit or transportation tax proposals

Please learn the facts to protect everyone's rights, put safety first, make the best use of limited tax dollars and improve mass transit.

This isn't true. I've been involved in shifting service and eliminating some service in another jurisdiction. Among other things, you see public input and run it through a Title VI prism. While it's more difficult than just not running the busses on a particular route anymore, it's really a pretty easy process and not nearly as difficult [[or illegal) as you maintain.

[professorscott]

This isn't true. I've been involved in shifting service and eliminating some service in another jurisdiction. Among other things, you see public input and run it through a Title VI prism. While it's more difficult than just not running the busses on a particular route anymore, it's really a pretty easy process and not nearly as difficult [[or illegal) as you maintain.

It's not worth replying to him; he posts this nonsense repeatedly in the face of all logic and facts. I've already suggested to him, to prove his point, go to Rochester Hills or Livonia and catch a SMART bus.

There is no requirement anywhere in the United States that any community provide any public transit whatever. If a community chooses to provide public transit, then there are a lot of rules to follow, including rules about accessibility. But he believes what he believes, and apparently always will.

If the SMART millage fails in any county, SMART service in that county will end as soon as the already-collected money has been spent. Period, end of sentence. And the rest of the region will find it even harder to get around without a car than how ridiculously hard it already is.

[Junjie]

Thank you, Jackson. I understand your point. By the way, $30B doesn't go very far in NYC on a transit project! I can see how dream plans can be helpful, like touring luxury homes before renovating your house: you aren't going to build a mansion, but you want some inspiration. I just get tired of the people, who might otherwise be serious, that demand something waaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion with what would work in Detroit. We need to have a way to pay for what we want, and it can't rely on outside sources [[although such money is welcome if we get it). And it also needs to have a realistic chance of getting a good amount of riders when built, with a determined source of the subsidy revenue. The worst thing we could do is build a an elaborate system that doesn't get riders or that we can't afford to keep running [[including during a recession when governments are looking to cut).

Sure, glad I happened to be a lurker on this forum for years and got a chance to respond. I understand what you mean and agree with everything you said above. And yeah, ha, I missed a 0 or two on that New York figure.

[DetroitPlanner]

M-1 Rail's first newsletter:
http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=...6&e=77c6615772

[That Great Guy]

This isn't true. I've been involved in shifting service and eliminating some service in another jurisdiction. Among other things, you see public input and run it through a Title VI prism. While it's more difficult than just not running the busses on a particular route anymore, it's really a pretty easy process and not nearly as difficult [[or illegal) as you maintain.

The City of Livonia was required by law to pay for community transit after SMART shut down the large buses in November 2006. Should the SMART tax fail next August, every community which paid into the County Transit Authority will also be required to pay with state or alternative permanent funding under the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Thanks for your input and post.

[That Great Guy]

It's not worth replying to him; he posts this nonsense repeatedly in the face of all logic and facts. I've already suggested to him, to prove his point, go to Rochester Hills or Livonia and catch a SMART bus.

There is no requirement anywhere in the United States that any community provide any public transit whatever. If a community chooses to provide public transit, then there are a lot of rules to follow, including rules about accessibility. But he believes what he believes, and apparently always will.

If the SMART millage fails in any county, SMART service in that county will end as soon as the already-collected money has been spent. Period, end of sentence. And the rest of the region will find it even harder to get around without a car than how ridiculously hard it already is.

When the 7 Mile SMART bus route to Laurel Park Mall in Livonia was shut down, the people who used this for work were still taken there, but service was still reduced

We can thank the cuts from the Michigan Department of Transportation for this and there are reasons this happened. Have you ever heard of the terms greed and gross incompetence?

When I-75 is widened the voters will learn in 40 years, the real truth about how low transit taxes work in relationship to tax shifting without more money from passengers.

Where is the bus service in Romeo and Almont? They pay the SMART tax

Why was bus service reduced in Detroit and Dearborn to the point of nearly gone in many areas? Even a 2.5 Mil SMART tax won't fix this under present SMART and DDOT management and lack of industry supports.

The answers are logistics of proper planning for job growth, investments, intermodal and many other solutions.

Input equals Output

A vote of NO next August is what is now needed to improve mass transit. This will delay the freeway expansions by exposing the truth of why the HOV lanes should not be built until safety is put first and they serve everyone the same.

Higher speeds, bigger trucks, more cars and no state or industry funded bus service is a recipe for disaster, Thus the best choice is NO.

The large buses will come with a vote of NO and there will be more of them by educating our leaders at SEMCOG, MDOT, SMART, DDOT and other meetings.

[DetroitPlanner]

The Great Guy: You are so wrong I am flabbergasted that someone could be so wrong. It is almost like pointing at blue and insisting it is red.

SMART provides the buses to Livonia for paratransit service, not the other way around. Livonia's voters opted out of SMART knowing full well that they will not have any linehaul service for its residents and those who work in the City.

[That Great Guy]

The Great Guy: You are so wrong I am flabbergasted that someone could be so wrong. It is almost like pointing at blue and insisting it is red.

SMART provides the buses to Livonia for paratransit service, not the other way around. Livonia's voters opted out of SMART knowing full well that they will not have any linehaul service for its residents and those who work in the City.

In the past there have been people who have mailed pictures of a crippled person with wording that says without the passage of the SMART millage that the pictured person will be denied essential taxpayer funded transportation.

What is more important? The I-75 HOV lanes? Or, taking care of the handicapped, elderly and the poor?

I'm all for improving mass transit and better roads. But not scare tactics and not a false crisis that is make believe of major shut downs and false propaganda.

The Civil Right of 1964 and the Americans with Disabilities Act can and should prevail. And in my opinion, the freeway expansions should not be built, until public bus service is fully restored and properly managed and funded. This will put safety first and will best serve the needs of everyone.

Also, in my opinion as long as buses are 2 hours late that too needs to stop, OR no more freeway expansions or money for light rail. I think our leaders need to learn to fix our transportation system or get out of the business and let someone else do the job

If you vote YES next August, then you want the Multi Billion dollar freeway expansions. That is your choice.

[professorscott]

The Great Guy: You are so wrong I am flabbergasted that someone could be so wrong. It is almost like pointing at blue and insisting it is red.

It's kind of like arguing with a prerecorded message, eh?

[DetroitPlanner]

It's kind of like arguing with a prerecorded message, eh?

Exactly like it!

[brizee]

PLEASE stop defecating all over this thread.

Apparently the public is more likely than not to support funding public transit.

But the powers that be want to push the vote to 2016.

That's real fucking smart. The problem is funding, so you want to DELAY funding!

Makes sense. If your brain is next to your asshole.

[Spartan]

PLEASE stop defecating all over this thread.

Apparently the public is more likely than not to support funding public transit.

But the powers that be want to push the vote to 2016.

That's real fucking smart. The problem is funding, so you want to DELAY funding!

Makes sense. If your brain is next to your asshole.

They want to increase vehicle registration fees to support public transportation? How the hell does that make sense? Make the people who aren't using it pay for it?

[professorscott]

They want to increase vehicle registration fees to support public transportation? How the hell does that make sense? Make the people who aren't using it pay for it?

Generally speaking, the whole idea of how government works is that everybody pays in but few ever avail themselves of most of the services. People pay for the library whether they use it or not. In most cities, a huge chunk of the budget goes to fund the police and fire departments; I hope you've made it through the year without having to use either of those.

The common way to pay for transit is with a regional sales tax, which would be fairer than vehicle registration but appears to be constitutionally questionable. Besides, if more people use transit that provides a direct benefit to motorists: fewer cars on the road. But basically, the law allows for a vehicle fee because that doesn't run afoul of the state constitution.

[That Great Guy]

When the costs of transporting people is too high, mass transit taxes do NOT work, no matter the source.

So, why do we want to raise them?

[DetroitPlanner]

Vehicle registration is already used along with the gas tax to fund Act 51. Act 51 support all transportation [[roads, transit, bikes.....). Vehicle registrations are only one of many options under consideration. It is an attractive option as opposed to the gas tax as the trend is driving less and buying more fuel efficient vehicles. Bus fares are currently double of what they were 15 years ago, and DPM has had a 50 percent increase in fare.

[That Great Guy]

Vehicle registration is already used along with the gas tax to fund Act 51. Act 51 support all transportation [[roads, transit, bikes.....). Vehicle registrations are only one of many options under consideration. It is an attractive option as opposed to the gas tax as the trend is driving less and buying more fuel efficient vehicles. Bus fares are currently double of what they were 15 years ago, and DPM has had a 50 percent increase in fare.

Why raise mass transit taxes at all? SMART and DDOT both presently costs too much based on facts.

The bus fare only covers about 10 percent of the cost based on facts from the federal government. So, take a bus downtown and back and pay $40 but NO you don't but the taxpayers do. Is this fare?

[DetroitPlanner]

Why raise mass transit taxes at all? SMART and DDOT both presently costs too much based on facts.

Please present your facts.

[That Great Guy]

Please present your facts.

http://www.crcmich.org/PUBLICAT/2000s/2002/memo1064.pdf

[DetroitPlanner]

http://www.crcmich.org/PUBLICAT/2000s/2002/memo1064.pdf

What is your point 12 year old data? SMART has one of the lowest millages out there. You're making my point!

[DetroitPlanner]

Interesting article on current trends for off-peak transit ridership.
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...97546899927042

[That Great Guy]

What is your point 12 year old data? SMART has one of the lowest millages out there. You're making my point!

One of the highest based on per passenger costs.


What do you DetroitYES posters think of Obamacare, in relationship to getting essential benefits such as what SMART provides? Taking people to the doctor drives up per passenger costs.

Who thinks the SMART tax should be raised? If so, how much?

Should the fuel tax be raised to get Livonia bus service back? How can Livonia residents come back?

My efforts filled up the 285 buses and now I want to fill up all the buses to help Detroit. Google save fuel tax click on How to make the SMART Property tax work.

[That Great Guy]

So, how can we save mass transit?