Population Stagnation in Michigan

[poobert]

And to that I say, good bye. I'd rather replace those depressing people who can't see good opportunity with people who can make lemonade out of lemons. This forum is loaded with depressed people who only see bad. The world, including Detroit and Michigan have a great future. Stagnation is a pejorative term. I think one could just have easily been an optimist and said that Michigan's population is 'stablizing'. After years of decline, 'stagnation' is overdue improvement. I'm glad to see Michigan no longer shrinking. Glad that its now 'stable'. Someday soon it will grow -- for those of us still around.

Where can I get a pair of those rose colored glasses? Do they give them out free when you're discharged from the nut house?

Mikey is right though, the Tea Party has been hard at work with new ideas to make Michigan better:
http://www.equalitymi.org/media-cent...signed-further

Man, you right wingers really do know better.

[Patrick]

IMO the argument is that such things [[liberal/conservative, urban/sprawl) don't matter as much as claimed. I'm guessing jobs, family, and maybe weather are the biggest factors in population migration.

California sits on the Pacific Rim, and borders Mexico, so gets huge immigration from Asia and Latin America. Tech is currently reaching the height of another boom, also benefitting growth. Weather is also a big draw.

Weather can have an effect on migration, but by just how much? Chicago has notoriously bad winters, yet it attracts people. Massachusetts also has terrible winters, yet it attracts talent. The Twin Cities as well...so weather has an affect to an extent.

[Bham1982]

Weather can have an effect on migration, but by just how much? Chicago has notoriously bad winters, yet it attracts people. Massachusetts also has terrible winters, yet it attracts talent. The Twin Cities as well...so weather has an affect to an extent.

None of those three states have impressive population growth. Again, Illinois lower than even Michigan. Mass has a pretty good economy right now, and performs relatively well.

I'm just saying it's a factor, not the only factor. If weather were the only factor then all 310 million Americans would be living in San Diego.

[nain rouge]

Actually, bike lanes that lead to hipster bars are the key, Bham. I wonder which Midwestern state has the most conservative government and lowest taxes? Oh, INDIANA! And you're right, they are the fastest growing midwestern state.

People on the left see bike lanes and hipster bars as things that lead to economic growth. On the right, we know that they stem from economic growth.

My girlfriend's extended family lives in Indianapolis, so I'm quite familiar with the area.

The short of it is, you have no idea what you're talking about. Downtown Indianapolis is a HUGE asset to its region, and definitely encourages people from out of state to move in. It's packed just about every night, and has an indoor mall that's a rival to our beloved Somerset.

Now, are young people in the area ditching their cars for bikes? No, but they do love having a vibrant downtown to visit, and cities like Detroit know that bike lanes and other such "nonsense" is a great way to attract gentrifiers to the core.

If it was all about an easy jobs, we'd all be packing our bags for North Dakota or West Virginia. Truth is, people value location a lot. Florida, Illinois and California are in some ways victims of popularity. Fast growth always results in a crash or correction, but I think the long-term trends in states like California are VERY positive.

[Gistok]

Sorry to say this... but the Indianapolis City Circle Mall is only about 1/2 the size of Somerset. And the mall lost one of its' 2 anchors [[Nordstroms) in 2011, due to poor sales... so it's not doing all that great.

[ddaydetroit]

I dont want an increase in the Michigan population I grew up in a somewhat rural area that is now a suburb and in my lifetime I have seen the burbs move out 40+ miles. Why do we want more people and watch the burbs consume all the farm land in south east Michigan.

[Dan Wesson]

I dont want an increase in the Michigan population I grew up in a somewhat rural area that is now a suburb and in my lifetime I have seen the burbs move out 40+ miles. Why do we want more people and watch the burbs consume all the farm land in south east Michigan.

Agreed! I know this site is dedicated to Detroit and most of the comments are geocentric but Michigan is so much more than Detroit especially now.

The people you want to stay are not only 'lured' away by better conditions
they are leaving because of deteriorating conditions.

Detroit, Flint, Saginaw refugees are heading elsewhere and upstate Michigan.
If they head upstate most can't make it on their own because of the lack of jobs.

They survive on all the available Government programs. That keeps a whole lot of people who have Government related jobs employed. It keeps grocery stores, hospitals, schools open.

It's crime and safety that drive Government Subsidy Recipients to leave the cities as well as following Grandma and Grandpa north. Most end up in substandard housing. A lot bring crime with them.

It's jobs and a better standard of living that get's the attention of those with education and skills. A better standard of living does exist in Northern Michigan. It's well paying job's that is in short supply.

This is not a healthy scenario.

[Jimaz]

From the Dec. 31st Free Press: Michigan's population grows for 2nd straight year, stays in 9th place [[database)

Michigan’s population increased marginally for the second year in a row, a promising trend that experts say may mean fewer people are leaving the state to settle elsewhere.

I find it interesting that you can find both positive and negative depictions of the same data.

[iheartthed]

My hope is that 2014 is the year when Metro Detroit stops conflating itself with Michigan. The Detroit area is a big enough economic system, and has enough cultural notoriety, to differentiate itself from generic Michigan in ways that places like Saginaw and Muskegon cannot.

That said, Metro Detroit is the drag on Michigan's population. A big part of the reason is because Metro Detroit does not know how to operate as nor market itself as a big city region. There is no cohesive strategy to attract people to the Detroit area, and immigration is the life and death of big cities. Focusing your efforts on getting people who were born there to stay is a strategy in failure.

[Bham1982]

Sorry to say this... but the Indianapolis City Circle Mall is only about 1/2 the size of Somerset. And the mall lost one of its' 2 anchors [[Nordstroms) in 2011, due to poor sales... so it's not doing all that great.

Circle Center mall is such a disaster for its owners [[hometown Simon Properties) that they basically gave up on trying to lease the top floor for retail, and converted the whole thing to office/educational space.

Nordstrom closed, despite heavy city subsidies. Carsons, the other anchor, closed their top floor.

And the notion that Indy is urban or transit oriented compared to Detroit is
absurd. Lower density, lower transit share, and much less historic fabric.

The Indy rival to Somerset is called Keystone, and is in their northern suburbs.

[DetroitPlanner]

Circle Center mall is such a disaster for its owners [[hometown Simon Properties) that they basically gave up on trying to lease the top floor for retail, and converted the whole thing to office/educational space.

Sounds a lot like what happened to the other 'Eaton Centers' across Canada or Columbus' City Center Mall.

[Novine]

An increase of population of 13,000 on 9 million is a rounding error. It's not time to break open the bubbly.

[Dan Wesson]

An increase of population of 13,000 on 9 million is a rounding error. It's not time to break open the bubbly.

An increase of 13,000 Taxpayers would be something to raise a glass to.

[Gistok]

An increase of population of 13,000 on 9 million is a rounding error. It's not time to break open the bubbly.

Ummmm Michigan is 9.883 million... an undercount by .883 million... why are some of you rounding in the wrong direction?? If we were rounding, it would be 10 million...

Granted Georgia and North Carolina are passing us by... but let's not make it more dismal than it really is...

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I dont want an increase in the Michigan population I grew up in a somewhat rural area that is now a suburb and in my lifetime I have seen the burbs move out 40+ miles. Why do we want more people and watch the burbs consume all the farm land in south east Michigan.

Smart growth strategies could mean an increase in population without more sprawl, but that would require a new approach for the metro area.

[Cliffy]

Tons of high paying engineering jobs available in Michigan. I'm an engineer and my friends I graduated with are doing great. They have no use for Chicago or NYC since they make cars in Detroit. You know the "iPod" from the last century. I try to tell people to get a STEM degree and you can find a job anywhere. Just my 2 cents. You guys can argue about buses and malls and rat infested apartments in NYC, we will continue to work and make money and spend it in Detroit and not bail out of the area.

[Novine]

Contra Bham's claim, people haven't been moving to the backwaters of Indiana. Instead, most of the growth is in the Metro Indy area especially like places like Carmel where they build bike lanes and roundabouts.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/...nizing-indiana

[Bham1982]

Contra Bham's claim, people haven't been moving to the backwaters of Indiana. Instead, most of the growth is in the Metro Indy area especially like places like Carmel where they build bike lanes and roundabouts.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/...nizing-indiana

No, I never made such a claim.

I wrote that Indiana had the largest population growth of Michigan's Midwest neighbors, which is true. I never mentioned where they were moving to, which would be impossible, because the Census release is at a state level only.

Carmel, BTW, is the Novi of Indy. It may be even sprawlier than Novi, with McMansions up the wazoo.

[Novine]

Your comment implied that people were moving to Indiana in spite of a lack of "hipster" amenities. The numbers show that, at least from 2000 to 2010, people were moving to those communities in Indiana, like Carmel, that are investing in bikelanes, etc. Carmel may be sprawlsville but they've spent hundreds of millions on infrastructure, a Performing Arts center, a new downtown, etc. to attract and retain residents.

[Bham1982]

Your comment implied that people were moving to Indiana in spite of a lack of "hipster" amenities.

Yeah, that was my point. Indiana has the most conservative, ass-backward, anti-urban and anti-transit state in the region, and is growing the fastest. Illinois is generally the other extreme on all these issues, yet is growing the slowest. Not implying causation, just saying I'm skeptical these things are big macro factors in population movements.

[iheartthed]

Yeah, that was my point. Indiana has the most conservative, ass-backward, anti-urban and anti-transit state in the region, and is growing the fastest. Illinois is generally the other extreme on all these issues, yet is growing the slowest. Not implying causation, just saying I'm skeptical these things are big macro factors in population movements.

A one year estimate does not make a trend. Illinois added more people from 2000-2010 than Indiana.

[DetroitPlanner]

We are not discussing Indiana nor Illinois. Why attack someone who makes a comparison then go on a tangent that devolves the topic of the thread? Growth in places like Carmel adds nothing to the fact that Michigan has stabilized; and since metro Detroit is more than half the population, isn't that a good thing?

[Novine]

Growth in Michigan has stabilized? As I noted, "growth" of 13,000 on almost 10 million, correction duly noted, is a rounding error. We don't even know if that growth is taking place in SE Michigan. The Detroit MSA was still losing population in the 2012 estimates for metro areas.

[illwill]

Yeah, that was my point. Indiana has the most conservative, ass-backward, anti-urban and anti-transit state in the region, and is growing the fastest. Illinois is generally the other extreme on all these issues, yet is growing the slowest. Not implying causation, just saying I'm skeptical these things are big macro factors in population movements.

Actually Illinois is "not" the other extreme. Most of Illinois [[to the South) is farmtown, USA and has total disdain for the Chicago region. Night & day. It's the Chicagoland region that would be considered the "other extreme."

Wow! I can't believe Detroit is NOW being compared to suburban Indy...smh

[NativeDetroiter]

As a 20-something Detroiter, I don't really see what other cities have to offer that Detroit lacks, other than jobs. I know that puts me in the minority. I can understand why people with degrees in certain disciplines would move. When it comes to government jobs no other city can compete with DC and when it comes to computer engineering no place can compete with California. I will agree that a successful career is an important component to a quality life and Detroit does not offer that to a lot of people. However, the amenities that other places offer can be enjoyed while on vacation. Anyplace will get boring and routine after a few years. The quality of your life is more closely associated with the relationships you have with family and friends, not the city you live in.