Renderings For New Midtown Building Revealed

[bailey]

Agree with the suburban comments, and it could be anywhere, IMO.

Is it too much to ask for the design to say something about the identity of a revitalized Detroit? Or reflect the city's industrial roots, updated in some way?

How does this design not do any of that?

I guess what I'm asking is what should a building look like to "say something" about a revitalized Detroit?

[motz]

How does this design not do any of that?

I guess what I'm asking is what should a building look like to "say something" about a revitalized Detroit?

I too am curious about this. What would make all of the "UGH FARMINGTON" or "IT DOESN'T REPRESENT DETROIT!" crowd happy? Do you guys want them to spend $450 Million on an authentic reproduction of a building that would've been built in the 1920s? I mean, seriously, we need to look at feasability and "Does this keep/strengthen the street wall along Woodward?" more than anything else.

[Gistok]

I've observed and come to the conclusion that my fellow DYesers are a very, very discriminating group when it comes to new construction. Nothing will make them happy.

Forums: Def. A premise of open and free discussion. Most common topics on forums include questions, comparisons, polls of opinion as well as debates.


Stinkytofu and I disagree, but we do so respectfully, and leave it at that. So why is open and free discussion such a hard concept for some to understand??

[Detroitnerd]

How does this design not do any of that?

I guess what I'm asking is what should a building look like to "say something" about a revitalized Detroit?

Well, I think that's a well-meaning sort of thing that doesn't have a lot of substance.

But if I may interject, there are ways to build UPON what's there as opposed to "building sumptin' new dere."

A classic example of "building sumptin' new dere" would be Studio One Apartments along Woodward behind University Tower. It's mixed-use, and that's nice. It's car-friendly, but limited to one curb cut, and that's nice. It's multi-story, and that's nice. It put its parking garage on the side street, and that's nice. It has a new urbanistic design that will please many. But, yet, the rest of it, from the tones chosen for the exterior or the blandness of it despite its location [[this is a facade suitable for the main drag of town? to be continually upstaged by the grandeur of the neighboring Whitney?) make one think it was pulled up out of downtown Albuquerque and dropped here.



So I think it's possible to do a great many things right and still underwhelm. Must it look as though it could have been built anywhere? Is Detroit an architectural desert devoid of anything to reference? Must everything built be off-the-shelf?

Not always. For "success stories" I'd point to people who actually look at what's there and reference it, incorporating infill into neighborhood renovation.

I mean, look at what Julio Bateau has done on Ferry Street. It's wonderful.

http://www.builderonline.com/project...f-a-dream.aspx

"In preservation, we have seen time and time again that one small project tends to instigate other small projects and before you know it, an entire neighborhood is rehabilitated," Kidorf says. "He is one of a small number of developers who believes in reusing existing building stock instead of tearing down and building new. Where he does new construction on vacant land, he is sensitive to the surrounding buildings and wants new buildings to fit in."
Indeed, walking along rebuilt Ferry Street, you have to look close to see which houses are new versus renovated homes. That blend, of new and old, of artisan architecture and historic style, is what makes this effort special.

See how that goes? You make an effort to blend in with or mesh with SOMETHING that's there already. And it looks as if it belongs there. That's because you're designing something with the neighborhood in mind, as opposed to trying to fit what you have on your shelf into that size parcel.

Even little victories make me smile. When they put up that massive parking garage next to the historic Globe Building, I was worried.



But it turned out that the designer of the exterior of the new garage chose to reference the Globe.



See how that works? Isn't it neat when designers make even a small effort to capitalize on what's already there? It adds continuity to a city's heritage and history while it takes its profit.

[bailey]

I too am curious about this. What would make all of the "UGH FARMINGTON" or "IT DOESN'T REPRESENT DETROIT!" crowd happy? Do you guys want them to spend $450 Million on an authentic reproduction of a building that would've been built in the 1920s? I mean, seriously, we need to look at feasability and "Does this keep/strengthen the street wall along Woodward?" more than anything else.

This. end of the day, I don't really care what it looks like. I just want it to look like it belongs in a "City". No silly set backs, "plazas", "green spaces", or designed primarily as a parking deck with some offices attached.

[dtowncitylover]

Forums: Def. A premise of open and free discussion. Most common topics on forums include questions, comparisons, polls of opinion as well as debates.


Stinkytofu and I disagree, but we do so respectfully, and leave it at that. So why is open and free discussion such a hard concept for some to understand??

Thank you for that definition. I wasn't referring specifically towards you. It seems that there is this fine line between discussion and outright whining.

[bailey]

Even little victories make me smile. When they put up that massive parking garage next to the historic Globe Building, I was worried.


But it turned out that the designer of the exterior of the new garage chose to reference the Globe.



See how that works? Isn't it neat when designers make even a small effort to capitalize on what's already there? It adds continuity to a city's heritage and history while it takes its profit.

to me that is the very definition of slapping lipstick on a pig. Yes, it's better than the dirt lot and it's nice they slapped a brick facade on it, but its still a monstrous parking deck with no first floor retail or street level anything other than parking.
If Illitch did this you'd all be screaming bloody murder.

[noise]

to me that is the very definition of slapping lipstick on a pig. Yes, it's better than the dirt lot and it's nice they slapped a brick facade on it, but its still a monstrous parking deck with no first floor retail or street level anything other than parking.
If Illitch did this you'd all be screaming bloody murder.

Agreed. That's an abomination.

[Detroitnerd]

to me that is the very definition of slapping lipstick on a pig. Yes, it's better than the dirt lot and it's nice they slapped a brick facade on it, but its still a monstrous parking deck with no first floor retail or street level anything other than parking.
If Illitch did this you'd all be screaming bloody murder.

Well, I can see why you react like that. Certainly, I'm not beating any drum for more parking garages. But don't you think it at least shows a modicum of thoughtfulness to sound this architectural refrain? It always makes me crack a smile, at least. Not for you? OK.

How about Julio and his work on Ferry Street, though?

[downtownguy]

I'm not a fan of Neumann Smith at all, but I can live with this building. As has been pointed out, it will add to the streetwall and most any building is better than an empty lot. I don't think it's particularly attractive, but you've got to settle for some base hits. They can't all be home runs.

I feel about the same apathy for the LTU building save for one big exception. If you're going to build something called Detroit Center for Design + Technology, I would expect more. Especially from a school known for it's architecture department.

[Sharnelle]

I too am curious about this. What would make all of the "UGH FARMINGTON" or "IT DOESN'T REPRESENT DETROIT!" crowd happy? Do you guys want them to spend $450 Million on an authentic reproduction of a building that would've been built in the 1920s? I mean, seriously, we need to look at feasability and "Does this keep/strengthen the street wall along Woodward?" more than anything else.

UGH FARMINGTON! But I would not want to see repros at any cost. Detroit has texture and creativity that can be part of a feasible design. Industrial roots can be re-imagined with textured materials used in a modern way, for example.

These buildings [[incl. LTU) are marching ahead as they are. Our comments here hopefully contribute to an overall better understanding of what is the right thing to do in the city [[not the suburbs transplanted to the city) and what are the options.

As I said on another Thread, buildings are typically around for a few generations, so healthy discussion about visual impact is important. And the same budget can get boring or interesting.

I am trying to plant a question that could make its way to being part of future design submissions or competitions. It would be really interesting to see what happened if architects were asked, "How does this say Detroit?" This would not be an unreasonable question in an interview.

Maybe the answer is that there is nothing special to say. And people would hate re-imagined industrial elements. Or Detroit is too quirky and contrary to develop a New Detroit Style. Or maybe we would be surprised in a good way by what we get from such a question.

In any case, I think the conversation would be worth having.

[Gistok]

Thank you for that definition. I wasn't referring specifically towards you. It seems that there is this fine line between discussion and outright whining.

Yea, I know... I don't find this building so bad, unlike others... but the fine line between whining and discussion is extremely difficult to determine... depending on your POV...

[rb336]

This. end of the day, I don't really care what it looks like. I just want it to look like it belongs in a "City". No silly set backs, "plazas", "green spaces", or designed primarily as a parking deck with some offices attached.

i could agree with that

[hybridy]

Wtf is "medical arts"? This is a generic medical office building with a retail component and some parking. It's a nice place to go for your flushot; and that $50 copay is the 'facility fee' to cover it all.

[wolverine]

Some people keep calling it "suburban" but I'd simply say it's generic. Typical developer special with standard materials and one little piece of pizzazz at the corner in hopes of establishing some building identity [[which it doesn't). But that doesn't mean this building is bad.

That is because 90% of new office buildings out there lack imagination. I'm happy to work in a vintage building because this new stuff is what you'll typically see. Other than that, you have some trophy skyscrapers in big cities that play with some shapes and forms beyond floor to ceiling glass stacked like pancakes to the sky, but interesting lowrise office buildings aren't all that common.

This will be good filler and blend with the scale of Woodward. It won't be remarkable but maybe there's room for that in the future and this will simply disappear into the surroundings. Sheesh, won't that be the day when buildings stop standing out simply because there are so few other buildings around them.

[Warrenite84]

I was hoping the LRT would motivate architects to design a more dense, taller massing of buildings along Woodward to connect Downtown with the New Center area. Preferably in the 10-15 floor range.

The designs are ok and remind me of the WSU Welcome Center. Just hoped for more...

[Sharnelle]

....That is because 90% of new office buildings out there lack imagination. I'm happy to work in a vintage building because this new stuff is what you'll typically see. Other than that, you have some trophy skyscrapers in big cities that play with some shapes and forms beyond floor to ceiling glass stacked like pancakes to the sky, but interesting lowrise office buildings aren't all that common.

This will be good filler and blend with the scale of Woodward. It won't be remarkable but maybe there's room for that in the future and this will simply disappear into the surroundings. Sheesh, won't that be the day when buildings stop standing out simply because there are so few other buildings around them.

I agree with much of what you say but my concern is that there will be slow slide to mediocrity if the bar is set low and stays there.

Not every building should shout, "Look at me!" but there can be the expectation that the architect will come up with something out of the ordinary. Maybe if every design team included someone from the College for Creative Studies to push their thinking, something a bit more interesting would result.

Part of the appeal of old buildings is the imperfection and the texture which give it character. New buildings can have texture and make connections with the past without being repros.

Detroit is a gritty, edgy, eccentric city of inventions. It is not Denver or Dallas. It was historically a place of great imagination, so it should not settle for less now IMO. It needs a built environment that will continue to stimulate people's brains. Can anyone think of an world-changing invention that came out of Denver or Dallas?

[bailey]

I agree with much of what you say but my concern is that there will be slow slide to mediocrity if the bar is set low and stays there.

Not every building should shout, "Look at me!" but there can be the expectation that the architect will come up with something out of the ordinary. Maybe if every design team included someone from the College for Creative Studies to push their thinking, something a bit more interesting would result.

Part of the appeal of old buildings is the imperfection and the texture which give it character. New buildings can have texture and make connections with the past without being repros.

Detroit is a gritty, edgy, eccentric city of inventions. It is not Denver or Dallas. It was historically a place of great imagination, so it should not settle for less now IMO. It needs a built environment that will continue to stimulate people's brains. Can anyone think of an world-changing invention that came out of Denver or Dallas?

If that is the metric you'd like to use, I'd take their economic successes and pretty explosive growth over the last 30 years over Detroit's worthless historical provenonce.

[wolverine]

The Problem is everything is developer driven these days, not single tenant. Working on these projects is like night and day and it's wonderful when convinced, better architecture can raise the budget a bit. Not so much though for companies that want to put something up fast at an average cost that's good enough, but not great.

As a result, you see a lot of faceless precast or unitized window systema that can be thrown up quickly. Not always the price of materials but lowering costs of labor.

I can understand why people are upset. But like I said, 90% of lowrise office buildings aren't all that great, so this isn't like Detroit is missing out on good office development.

[Bobl]

What would Albert Khan say?

[DetroitPlanner]

The Problem is everything is developer driven these days, not single tenant. Working on these projects is like night and day and it's wonderful when convinced, better architecture can raise the budget a bit. Not so much though for companies that want to put something up fast at an average cost that's good enough, but not great.

When has building a building not been developer driven? I think it has a lot to do with lower expectations and a Walmart society.

[Bham1982]

I think the building looks fine. It isn't a landmark, and the current building is probably a bit stronger architecturally/more urban, but the economics often don't work in these older commercial buildings.

Seems to overall be kind of a wash, but good to see something occupied.

[Zinjanthropus]

<delurk>IMHO, just look across the street and also a block north to see what good integration into a neighborhood can look like. At this point in the urban game, we can't afford too much visual mediocrity, especially when the same money can often yield a better look.

[rb336]

What would Albert Khan say?

he would say it was WWAK

[Gistok]

I guess the consensus is that this is a "middling" design... and some folks here are comfortable with "middling"...