Thoughts on "House Envy" Sunday Freep

[bailey]

This week's house is a dandy. Right on Cass Lake. Drool.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2013312010009

Nice place to live if you never need to go anywhere for anything. I'm not from the area, but I was playing in a buddy's golf outing over near there... overbuilt is an understatement.

[Bham1982]

Nice place to live if you never need to go anywhere for anything. I'm not from the area, but I was playing in a buddy's golf outing over near there... overbuilt is an understatement.

Agreed that the main drawback of that Orchard Lake/Cass Lake area is access. There's like one road in and out, and you're not particularly close to most "stuff" so you better be wild about lakefront living.

[gazhekwe]

When I was younger I really loved articles like House Envy. These days, I am more into downsizing and would love some articles on fixing up a worthy place. Such projects can really revitalize a neighborhood.

The recent article on HGTV Rehab Addict's rehab of the house in Detroit really filled the bill. There are so many lovely places here, with stunning details that were pretty standard for homes built before the Great Depression.

We had one near St. Mary's of Redford, built in 1927, that had the most amazing plaster details through the first floor living spaces. It was a pretty run of the mill house, not a standout in the neighborhood, so you know the other homes had similar details. No one could replace that today. The Fisher Mansion is full of such details [[the one owned by the Hare Krishna). A fascinating tour pointed out the beautiful details and how restoration involved seeking out the original craftsmen who did the work in the first place. Sad to think those arts are dead and buried by now.

[DetroitPlanner]

When did Pope Francis say that we eliminate poverty by eliminating wealth?

The U.S. doen't really have much true monetary poverty anyways. Pope Francis has a million places where he can assist before getting involved in this country.

We have poverty of spirit and poverty of sensing opportunity, but I don't think too many people in Detroit are barefoot, illiterate, living in a one-room dirt-floor shack, and eating only rice and beans [[and an occasional egg) as is typical in places like Central America [[or at least was extremely common in my travels through rural parts of Guatemala & Honduras).

First of all I agree that many of the poor in the United States have it much better than poor in many other parts of the world.

What I was trying to get at was the idea of over consumption of some at the expense of many. I support of Bono, Gates', and Buffet's approach to ending starvation and reducing sickness worldwide. To whom much is given, much is expected. Its good karma.

I happen to believe that some are given a lot more resources due to their locations. Mikey pointed out that someone's big ass McMansion is not relevant. Well the big-ass McMansion pays big-ass property tax bills. Where they are located, they do get better services and access to better schools [[as Mikey mentioned as neighborhood amenities) than those who live in poorer parts of town.

My original post said that I don't mind house envy. Yes many are over the top. I would like to see them have more variety and show some normal bungalows that people have done extraodinary things with.

[Bham1982]

What I was trying to get at was the idea of over consumption of some at the expense of many. I support of Bono, Gates', and Buffet's approach to ending starvation and reducing sickness worldwide. To whom much is given, much is expected. Its good karma.

Agreed 100%. People with good fortune in their lives have an obligation to give back. It isn't "being nice"; it's inherent in their status, IMO.

My original post said that I don't mind house envy. Yes many are over the top. I would like to see them have more variety and show some normal bungalows that people have done extraodinary things with.

I agree with this too. More variety would be good. Though I think they've shown some non-McMansion stuff. I think they've done some NW Detroit homes, some Pleasant Ridge/Huntington Woods stuff and the like. But people love McMansions in this area. Visit Oakland Twp. and it's like the recession never happened.


They should do some houses in those lesser-known vintage neighborhoods; places like Dearborn near the Country Club, maybe some of those modernist homes in the ravines along the Rouge in Oakland County, or maybe something along the waterfront in St. Clair Shores?

[A2Mike]

I think that the Free Press, framing the issue in terms of "envy", missed the boat on why most readers really look at the featured properties; they want a little fantasy, to be sure, but people like to inspect a well designed and executed house for a particular look or some useful ideas that they can adapt to their own scale and way of life. If those commenters who dislike some of the Free Press houses want to get really worked up they should check out some of the "Curbed...." or "Real Estalker" blogsites. "Curbed Beverly Hills" will make Oakland County's tony precincts look like a modest middle class subdivision!

[sumas]

Wow! I am a very rich person indeed. Love my house, my neighbors, my community and our kids. This is a very village concept.

Never had much use for the Catholic church but truly admire its new Pope.

I am not trying to attack the rich, many contribute to "us" welfare assholes in deep Dark Detroit.

Many forumers have expressed in interest in sitting on our front porch and engage in the dialogue we get from simple passer bys and neighbor hood folk.

The House envy thing just rankles. A near neighbor and 40 yr resident is doing amazing things to up grade his home, far better than I can do. Those stories carry weight huge weight with me.

Those unloved pride of place homes show off homes inlicite pretty much zero interest in me.

We buy the paper on Sunday because it benefits a worthy cause, mostly it sucks, we read little of it, nothing to read, but what the Hell , us poor uneducated people in Detroit needs to see Maasters, is doing great. might trickle down. We gets to see those pictures and dream . Oops forgot, we's supposed to drool.Sorry don't think so. Sumas

[old guy]

What reforms, exactly, would end poverty? Please, wise me up.

I have an anti-poverty recipe: graduate high school, avoid drugs and alcohol, and don't have kids either before age 20 or out of wedlock. People who do those things have almost no chance of living in poverty, including those born into poverty. Unfortunately, those things cannot be imposed on people. The political left would like to take money from "the rich" and give to the poor, but get all outraged at the notion that personal behavior has consequences. While there are external factors, of course, your own lifelong behavior is by far the biggest determining factor in determining whether you end up poor. But it is easier, if far less productive, to just demand other people's shit rather than get your own shit together. Being a liberal: it isn't helpful, but it sure is easy. It absolves people of responsibility for their own actions.

I guess we're getting a bit off topic here, sorry Sumas.

Mikey, I don't mean to offend you or seem mean spirited in any way, but your statement is not only repugnant, but also naive and shows a lack of understanding towards people that are obviously living without the means that you've been provided with.
Life is incredibly complex and can rarely be explained in the simplistic way you describe it.

"The political left would like to take money from "the rich" and give to the poor, but get all outraged at the notion that personal behavior has consequences."

Where do you come up with this crap? I understand that personal behavior has consequences. I also understand that the road we're going down in terms of wealth and poverty is unsustainable. I think there are a number of people on the right that would agree with that. Detroit is at the forefront of just such a situation. Neither the left or right will prosper unless poverty is addressed rationally. In essence, you have to be able to understand how people came to be impoverished in the first place, rather than demeaning them for their actions while being subjected to poverty. It's tough being poor. It's easy to sit back and criticize people that are poor. I'm sorry, but your ignorance on this subject is overwhelming.

"Being a liberal: it isn't helpful, but it sure is easy."

You can't imagine how wrong you are.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

"Being a liberal: it isn't helpful, but it sure is easy."

You can't imagine how wrong you are.

What's not easy is being a TeaPartyGayGuy but Mikey seems to OK with it.

[gnome]

So, detroiteronthewestcoast, because you don't agree with Mikey you are allowed to taunt? Being a close-minded liberal is an interesting life choice as well.

back to the subject of the newspaper section, House Envy. It is located in the real estate section of the paper. A paper that desperately needs advertisers to advertise. The House Envy article whets the appetite of house hunters who then look at the adverts and then look at the homes.

it is advertising people. Not a political position. Not a life choice. It is words on a page written by a hack so as to appeal to those who advertise products for sale.

this is not rocket science, this is not philosophy, this is commerce.

[sumas]

Ah, love all commentaries. Gnome is so right as are many others on this thread. I read and learn. The world is diverse and I welcome all input.

"House Envy" just leaves me blank. Of course it is ok to read such stuff and dream of riches. Where I live the "dream" is translated into buy lotto tickets. What a waste of real monies.

Gaz, I just love you. You would be pleased that in my area a fellow forumer is buying and rehabbing homes. We, the city, have lost much but still have much to save. Also saddened that many people still think of the city neighborhoods as wastelands. I listen, I read and I learn.

I was amused however by the "noble poverty" rant. Also dismayed at the antagonism towards our poor and such lack of understanding of the dynamics that creates poverty. Like Mr T said, "I pity the fools". Sumas

[Honky Tonk]

So, detroiteronthewestcoast, because you don't agree with Mikey you are allowed to taunt? Being a close-minded liberal is an interesting life choice as well.

back to the subject of the newspaper section, House Envy. It is located in the real estate section of the paper. A paper that desperately needs advertisers to advertise. The House Envy article whets the appetite of house hunters who then look at the adverts and then look at the homes.

it is advertising people. Not a political position. Not a life choice. It is words on a page written by a hack so as to appeal to those who advertise products for sale.

this is not rocket science, this is not philosophy, this is commerce.

Amen.......

[Hermod]

To some degree, I understand the "noble poverty" post. I was born in 1939 to parents who finished high school and went through most of their 20s in the depression. I remember the WWII rationing and the "meatless days". As a result, my upbringing always had the depression mentality even when my father's career improved. As a result, to this day I avoid expenditures that I feel are unwarranted. I will not go to a restaurant with valet parking unless there is a social imperative/obligation pushing me there. For clothing, I always shop sales and eschew name brands. Even though I have relative affluence with a good retirement and savings, I will not spend just for show.

[MaxCady]

I have read many reasoned arguments and still believe that, "House Envy" is inappropriate.

Then don't read it.

I love the politics of class envy; The rich are evil criminals and the poor are morally pure.

Ha ha ha, whatever!

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

So, detroiteronthewestcoast, because you don't agree with Mikey you are allowed to taunt? Being a close-minded liberal is an interesting life choice as well.

Actually, I was just trying to point out that its not easy subscribing to a philosophy in which the vast majority of the adherents actively work against your rights at every opportunity. Cognitive dissonance always interests me.

I guess "closed minded liberal" is not a 'taunt" in your mind.

I prefer to consider myself a Recovering Republican. We all have some dark secrets in our past; that is one of mine.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

The recent article on HGTV Rehab Addict's rehab of the house in Detroit really filled the bill. There are so many lovely places here, with stunning details that were pretty standard for homes built before the Great Depression.

I saw some of the articles on this, but nothing about the status of any of the episodes. Has anything aired yet? I didn't really see much info on the Rehab Addict site, but would love to see whatever they air.

[ronaldj]

Then don't read it.

I love the politics of class envy; The rich are evil criminals and the poor are morally pure.

Ha ha ha, whatever!

I believe I have made it abundantly clear that I hate no one except perhaps the ignorant. No hatred there either. Just disdain.

Hard to miss the pictures and no I do not read it. Its on the way to coupons that us "poor" and "rich" folk use. Your juxtaposition of the, RICH ARE CRIMINAL AND THE POOR PURE IS SO SIMPLE. Obvious you are clueless, go back to school and rejoin this forum in maybe 1o years. Hey live in Detroit, meet some people or just get a life. Nothing is cut and dry.

[sumas]

Apologies, I inadvertently posted under my husbands name. We have shared a long life, agree on many things but not all. Actually, he likes House Envy and I haven't shot him, divorced him or kicked him out. Despite his occasional bad taste, he is a keeper. We are 42 years strong and able to still love and deal with diverse opinions.

[Farwell]

Wow! I am a very rich person indeed. Love my house, my neighbors, my community and our kids. This is a very village concept.

Never had much use for the Catholic church but truly admire its new Pope.

I am not trying to attack the rich, many contribute to "us" welfare assholes in deep Dark Detroit.

Many forumers have expressed in interest in sitting on our front porch and engage in the dialogue we get from simple passer bys and neighbor hood folk.

The House envy thing just rankles. A near neighbor and 40 yr resident is doing amazing things to up grade his home, far better than I can do. Those stories carry weight huge weight with me.

Those unloved pride of place homes show off homes inlicite pretty much zero interest in me.

We buy the paper on Sunday because it benefits a worthy cause, mostly it sucks, we read little of it, nothing to read, but what the Hell , us poor uneducated people in Detroit needs to see Maasters, is doing great. might trickle down. We gets to see those pictures and dream . Oops forgot, we's supposed to drool.Sorry don't think so. Sumas

Disagree with me if you want, but that thinly veiled, racist "rant" was totally uncalled for, especially when it was you that invited thoughts. When you ask for opinions, don't expect them all to confirm to your point of view. This is why I rarely post on this forum. Rationality and decorum are sadly in short supply especially for those that don't always have the prevailing politically correct point of view.

[canuck]

Your thread has certainly hit the sensitive chord in a lot of folks Sumas!

I think that with all that has happened to the economy, and especially the home ownership problems in the US, it is easy to hit a raw nerve.

My first impression of this thread title was a little awry of center. I was reminded of the artworks by a pretty important artist; Bruce Nauman.
He did a number of works in neon and engraved on stone that featured vices and virtues sliding over one another. The work Seven Vices and Seven Virtues is a permanent exhibit at the UCSD at LaJolla.

This work brings to mind the sort of slide toward a more amoral stance in western society. The kind of amorality reflected in our use of particular words like "Envy" for instance. If we go back forty or fifty years at most, this kind of word to describe an emotion about a house or another possession would not have been used in maistream media or popular discourse. Much like the "N" word has gotten more traction than ever, all the four letter words have become commonplace in polite society, because the idea of polite society no longer exists. So, envy and addiction and all the other naughty terms to describe sins of yore have become "emotions" without much consequence. In other words, the judgemental part of the equation has disappeared only to be replaced by a term related to an emotional state.



http://www.abbeville.com/interiors.a...ptionNumber=03

[sumas]

Geez I had no clue I was conducting "a thinly veiled racist rant". I do believe I have said over and over I really do like to hear diverse opinions. Racist, humm I have to mull that one over. Reread my posts and I do believe the only thing I said I dislike, is ignorance. Sorry if I touched some raw nerves. Perhaps you meant classist??? But in for a penny, in for a pound, I do Hate dumb.

[sumas]

Interesting commentary Canuck. No doubt when I wrote this first post I was reacting emotionally. We are white in a primarily all black neighborhood. We have helped many neighbors save their homes. We write grants, work with community, transition the homeless, 4 live with us now. We get no aid for any of this. I don't handle any monies from grants, never asked for any, never got any.

We live on little, need really nothing. It's a life style we embraced from 1988. I don't hate the rich, indeed we have many relatives that fall in that category.

Veiled racism, I am still mulling that.

[courtney]

I dislike "House Envy" for a different reason - it's like adwords spam on websites or those funny later 1800's/early 1900's newspaper articles that sound so official and then push a product.

It's real estate advertising - really just a longer mls listing - without wanting the "average" reader to get that. A form of marketing hoping that someone with enough money will read and picture themselves in that house and buy it.

That awful house in Ann Arbor was really made me not even check out the last one on the freep site - describing it as "Frank Lloyd Wright inspired" when it was just a mid-80's nightmare.

[sumas]

To some degree, I understand the "noble poverty" post. I was born in 1939 to parents who finished high school and went through most of their 20s in the depression. I remember the WWII rationing and the "meatless days". As a result, my upbringing always had the depression mentality even when my father's career improved. As a result, to this day I avoid expenditures that I feel are unwarranted. I will not go to a restaurant with valet parking unless there is a social imperative/obligation pushing me there. For clothing, I always shop sales and eschew name brands. Even though I have relative affluence with a good retirement and savings, I will not spend just for show.

I know what you mean, my mother grew up pretty dirt poor during the depression, it's effects stayed with her throughout her life. In later years after my dad passed, she worried she would end up in "the poor house". At the request of family, we lived with her the last 7 years of her life, the final year was home hospice. She died peacefully at home. All her children and grandchildren just adored her. I still miss her and her sometimes very funny thrifty notions. I guess a lot of that rubbed off on me. Our youngest son bought her very nice home in East English Village.

[KJ5]

Ya seen that new Sunday upscale food section "Let Them Eat Cake?"
Can't pass up an easy joke... I appreciate some of the more substantive commentary on here.