Gov. Snyder, Mayor Bing, Kevyn Orr and Boeing

[Wesley Mouch]

To be honest, Michigan didn't have much of a chance to begin with, and those people who thought it did were dreaming. The only people who were speculating about the state getting the project were the people here, and although Boeing said they had received proposals from 22 states, Michigan never appeared in any discussion concerning plant location in any of the news pieces in the Seattle print media or on local TV.

RTW matters very little to Boeing. Michigan still has a troubled labor environment. Keep liberalizing our work environment to allow innovation and experimentation, and someday we might again have a chance.

I doubt that Michigan was even very far up their list.

Can anyone update on the state of skilled labor in Michigan? I've heard rumblings that skilled labor is in short supply here -- what with the auto companies humming along and the out-migration of the last few decades.

[Novine]

"Keep liberalizing our work environment to allow innovation and experimentation, and someday we might again have a chance."

What's this nonsense?

[Wesley Mouch]

"Keep liberalizing our work environment to allow innovation and experimentation, and someday we might again have a chance."

What's this nonsense?

The second biggest impediment to innovation in America are the work rules created by collective bargaining. The number one impediment is corporate administrative bureaucratic stupidity.

Boeing might consider Michigan -- if our workforce was adaptable. Instead, we have American Axle employees fighting to the death. AA was paying a decent wage. Pawns sacrificed in a broader war between corporations and labor. I understand Boeing was pretty much going to move the work to California. Probably to a place where radicals don't rule the Union and they can actual get some work done without their Machinists threatening to strike every single contract negotiation.

RTW only matters because it empowers employees to get their Union in line. Its not a cure-all. Just one step towards making Union shops responsive to modern practices -- instead of fighting every change tooth and nail while work goes offshore.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I have stated here before, my one experience being in a union was awful. The union was bad for both the employees of the restaurant, and bad for the restaurant. I will never join one again. It should always be the right of the employee to not join a union. Like freedom of speech also guaranteeing you the right to keep your mouth shut, freedom of association also guarantees the right not to associate.

[douglasm]

Labor was NOT the only issue. Boeing had a laundry list of wants, including year round seaport access that could handle oversized containers, a plant site and facilities at little or no cost, infrastructure improvements provided by the location, and a large tax abatement package.

Another thing that hurt other sites....but not Everett.....was the problems with the 787 rollout, including the quality issues at Boeing's South Carolina plant. Both Emeriates and Qatar Airlines were very displeased with the build quality of South Carolina 787's, and told Boeing so, and I believe the chances of the 777X being built somewhere other than Everett or Long Beach were pretty slim.

[Novine]

"Another thing that hurt other sites....but not Everett.....was the problems with the 787 rollout, including the quality issues at Boeing's South Carolina plant."

This is a point that RTW proponents in the South ignore. Where is Boeing going to find the thousands of skilled workers with the experience to build planes outside of their current facilities? Many talking heads seem to think that there's no difference between a kid flipping burgers at Burger King and the skilled trades who do the work at American manufacturing facilities.

[Honky Tonk]

"Another thing that hurt other sites....but not Everett.....was the problems with the 787 rollout, including the quality issues at Boeing's South Carolina plant."

This is a point that RTW proponents in the South ignore. Where is Boeing going to find the thousands of skilled workers with the experience to build planes outside of their current facilities? Many talking heads seem to think that there's no difference between a kid flipping burgers at Burger King and the skilled trades who do the work at American manufacturing facilities.

Here's where it's going. If you CAN'T find a good paying job in your "skilled" field, and DON'T want to end up flipping burgers, then you'll take the skilled position @ the rate they're paying.

[Wesley Mouch]

"Another thing that hurt other sites....but not Everett.....was the problems with the 787 rollout, including the quality issues at Boeing's South Carolina plant."

This is a point that RTW proponents in the South ignore. Where is Boeing going to find the thousands of skilled workers with the experience to build planes outside of their current facilities? Many talking heads seem to think that there's no difference between a kid flipping burgers at Burger King and the skilled trades who do the work at American manufacturing facilities.

You may or not be right about the quality and skills of the population in the South. But its not your decision to make. Its Boeing's decision.

There are decisions to be made. The decision to move production has costs and challenges like workforce skills -- and the decision to keep production in Everett has costs and challenges no doubt. We don't know in what ways their current labor force challenges Boeing's future success. We do know that their Union is strong and aggressive.

Are they really fighting for their workers? Are they underpaid? Are they really at risk of poverty because of a shift away from defined benefit pensions? Or are they stubborn and greedy? I don't know. I'm not Boeing.

If they were to decide to move to the South, or overseas -- they will have challenges too. And that's what makes a company strong. No just doing the same things over and over -- but innovating and finding better, move efficient ways of delivering great products.

You're opinion of Southern workers may be right -- or wrong. But the Southerners have rights too. And we all have the option to relocate.

[[And while I'm at it, RTW isn't for companies, its for workers.)

[compn]

heard a radio story 'the people mover is up 300-400 riders this year because new businesses have moved downtown' . any actual stats or reasons for the people mover numbers ?

[DetroitPlanner]

heard a radio story 'the people mover is up 300-400 riders this year because new businesses have moved downtown' . any actual stats or reasons for the people mover numbers ?

300-400 riders a year??? Why bother?

[compn]

no, 300 MORE riders than last year, per day/week/month i dont remember.

[compn]

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/01/...ther-shutdown/

As many as 700 people use the People Mover every morning — up from about 300 just one year ago. Spokesperson Ericka Alexander said the increase in riders is due to an increase in companies moving to downtown Detroit.

[Wesley Mouch]

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/01/...ther-shutdown/

As many as 700 people use the People Mover every morning — up from about 300 just one year ago. Spokesperson Ericka Alexander said the increase in riders is due to an increase in companies moving to downtown Detroit.

That's amazing. [[And I guess this is tangentially related to Boeing, since I think the PM cars were made by Bombarier.)

[Novine]

"[[And while I'm at it, RTW isn't for companies, its for workers.)"

No, it's not. I know that's the party line from the "freedom" astroturf outfits but RTW isn't for the benefit of workers. If RTW actually benefited workers, the same astroturf outfits wouldn't be promoting it. Those organizations exist to promote the interests of the corporations of the world, not the workers.

[Wesley Mouch]

"[[And while I'm at it, RTW isn't for companies, its for workers.)"

No, it's not. I know that's the party line from the "freedom" astroturf outfits but RTW isn't for the benefit of workers. If RTW actually benefited workers, the same astroturf outfits wouldn't be promoting it. Those organizations exist to promote the interests of the corporations of the world, not the workers.

I don't see the distinction between corporations and workers. People mostly work at corporations. Corporations mostly provide wealth to people.

Are there issues with our distribution of wealth and capital? Sure. I agree 110% with the need to reign in bankers -- but I don't want to destroy them. I want them to succeed. With some adjustments.

I do not mean my statements as rhetoric. I do not have a problem with the idea of labor unions. I simply think that Unions need to be more responsive to their workers.

Let's take Boeing. Am I right that their local union advocated a 'no' vote? What drugs were they on? Does anyone really think this local union is looking out for its workers? Apparently most of the local workers don't. They sided with the national union and approved the deal.

Its important that we allow for minority opinions within unions. When we don't, we risk marginalization of minority views. RTW is but one way that a local member can express dissatisfaction with their Union. Do they not have that right? Or must they march in lock step -- even if that marching might cost them their job?

I'd be curious to hear what laid-off American Axle workers think now about the deal they turned down.

[Hermod]

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Lowell, we has us a spambot.