Another Heidelberg house goes up in flames from arson

[Detroitnerd]

I agree with you for the most part, but the Hamtramck murals, to me, don't really reflect the community. Every time I go by them they seem very oddly out of place.

There were provisions in the beautification project agreements that if the community objected to the art, demands could be made for a new mural. That's what happened in the case of the coffin mural. It was replaced by art that is, in my opinion, very fucking ugly. But it comes from the community, which means the red-nosed, shit-stained old drunks of the South Side will now be able to shamble up to the liquor store without having to see anything challenging to their delicate sensibilities.

In the case of the mural in the Deeby lot on Joseph Campau, that was a bunch of old-line nut-job Hamtramck rednecks who took it upon themselves to do a shitty job of halfway whitewashing it, until Al Deeby put up a new billboard instead. The artwork itself could have sold in a Los Angeles gallery for $10,000-$20,000, but a couple of ginned-up hicks no doubt beamed with pride over the new Al Deeby Dodge billboard. Now they can walk past that cracked asphalt with the weeds poking up through it, encircled by rusting fencing, and bask in total satisfaction.

So, actually, you don't have to look at that challenging art anymore. It's gone. It's been gone for a while now, which makes me wonder how long it's been since you've been by. Anyway, I don't give a flying fuck either way. I just think it's funny that those rednecks who crabbed about the art don't give a shit about how ugly the weeds are, how littered the streets are, or how they seem to exhibit absolutely no taste whatsoever in their dress, deportment or disposition.

In other words, they're the trash.

[Lowell]

Unless Tryee is paying taxes on these properties... good riddance.

Unless he attracts tens of thousands of visitors who spend millions in Detroit, draws international art acclaim from prestigious museums and universities, attracts almost daily tours of students and art classes from across the metro and beyond and does all this in a neighborhood that would otherwise be a revenue-consuming urban prairie.

If you don't like his art, what is wrong with the business he generates and the positive acclaim and attention to Detroit he creates? What other 'ghetto-hood' does that for the city?

Of the many people who consult me on touring Detroit, almost all know of this project, want to see it, and are delighted with the refreshing, inspiring and idea-challenging experience they have there.

[p69rrh51]

I didn't ask for your opinion. I asked what makes you an expert.

Knock off the idiotic rhetoric. You don't have to like it. That doesn't make it any less artistic.

What makes me an expert is 35 plus years in and out of the art world working for several auction houses. What makes you able to form an intelligent opinion on the project?

[canuck]

What makes me an expert is 35 plus years in and out of the art world working for several auction houses. What makes you able to form an intelligent opinion on the project?

I could auction off a couple of your posts from recent memory and probably have to pay someone to like them, even a little bit.

[canuck]

There were provisions in the beautification project agreements that if the community objected to the art, demands could be made for a new mural. That's what happened in the case of the coffin mural. It was replaced by art that is, in my opinion, very fucking ugly. But it comes from the community, which means the red-nosed, shit-stained old drunks of the South Side will now be able to shamble up to the liquor store without having to see anything challenging to their delicate sensibilities.

In the case of the mural in the Deeby lot on Joseph Campau, that was a bunch of old-line nut-job Hamtramck rednecks who took it upon themselves to do a shitty job of halfway whitewashing it, until Al Deeby put up a new billboard instead. The artwork itself could have sold in a Los Angeles gallery for $10,000-$20,000, but a couple of ginned-up hicks no doubt beamed with pride over the new Al Deeby Dodge billboard. Now they can walk past that cracked asphalt with the weeds poking up through it, encircled by rusting fencing, and bask in total satisfaction.

So, actually, you don't have to look at that challenging art anymore. It's gone. It's been gone for a while now, which makes me wonder how long it's been since you've been by. Anyway, I don't give a flying fuck either way. I just think it's funny that those rednecks who crabbed about the art don't give a shit about how ugly the weeds are, how littered the streets are, or how they seem to exhibit absolutely no taste whatsoever in their dress, deportment or disposition.

In other words, they're the trash.

Exactement!

[Sharnelle]

I agree with Lowell.

Plus who will keep Detroit's quirky soul alive? Where? I would hate to see every neighborhood become bland with generic artless new construction so that eventually the city becomes Anytown, USA. [[thinking of The Auburn and Woodbridge Estates repeated over and over with nary a polka dot in sight).

Lots of order, no weirdness and zero personality.

The Heidelberg has - and will continue to give rise to - a messy, emotional story that means something to people all over the world.

What do the haters want in the end, Atlanta with better music? Better music tends to come from messy emotional rebelious unconventional environments.

[canuck]

Unless he attracts tens of thousands of visitors who spend millions in Detroit, draws international art acclaim from prestigious museums and universities, attracts almost daily tours of students and art classes from across the metro and beyond and does all this in a neighborhood that would otherwise be a revenue-consuming urban prairie.

If you don't like his art, what is wrong with the business he generates and the positive acclaim and attention to Detroit he creates? What other 'ghetto-hood' does that for the city?

Of the many people who consult me on touring Detroit, almost all know of this project, want to see it, and are delighted with the refreshing, inspiring and idea-challenging experience they have there.

Oui monsieur!

[canuck]

I agree with Lowell.

Plus who will keep Detroit's quirky soul alive? Where? I would hate to see every neighborhood become bland with generic artless new construction so that eventually the city becomes Anytown, USA. [[thinking of The Auburn and Woodbridge Estates repeated over and over with nary a polka dot in sight).

Lots of order, no weirdness and zero personality.

The Heidelberg has - and will continue to give rise to - a messy, emotional story that means something to people all over the world.

What do the haters want in the end, Atlanta with better music? Better music tends to come from messy emotional rebelious unconventional environments.

Tout à fait ma chère dame!

[p69rrh51]

I could auction off a couple of your posts from recent memory and probably have to pay someone to like them, even a little bit.

Please do we can add you lousy posts too!

[DetroitPlanner]

We hope for better things. It will rise from the ashes.

[subsidized]

Unless he attracts tens of thousands of visitors who spend millions in Detroit, draws international art acclaim from prestigious museums and universities, attracts almost daily tours of students and art classes from across the metro and beyond and does all this in a neighborhood that would otherwise be a revenue-consuming urban prairie.

If you don't like his art, what is wrong with the business he generates and the positive acclaim and attention to Detroit he creates? What other 'ghetto-hood' does that for the city?

Of the many people who consult me on touring Detroit, almost all know of this project, want to see it, and are delighted with the refreshing, inspiring and idea-challenging experience they have there.

So he doesn't pay taxes then....

Also, I guess I should shutup and blindly believe that the project brings in people that spend millions in Detroit proper.... sure.... because that neighborhood is the one all the developers are fighting for. All that hotel and restaurant congestion is making the commute down Mt. Elliot such a headache.

[greekt0wn]

Where is the proof of these tens of thousands of visitors? Millions in revenue? You are mental if you think anyone believes that. This was an illegal eyesore nobody wants to live next to. If it's so wonderful, let him do it to your house.

[MSUguy]

So he doesn't pay taxes then....

Also, I guess I should shutup and blindly believe that the project brings in people that spend millions in Detroit proper.... sure.... because that neighborhood is the one all the developers are fighting for. All that hotel and restaurant congestion is making the commute down Mt. Elliot such a headache.

This post is beyond stupid

What does the neighborhood have do with whether it's a major attraction? Look the neighborhood around the Motown Museum it isn't one the best in the city. Grand Blvd isn't clogged with traffic. Are now going to argue that it's a not major attraction? If you think don't the Heidelberg Project isn't one bigger attractions in the city you don't know anything about Detroit

[subsidized]

The Motown museum is not a major attraction, it's open once a week and there is rarely anyone there. Try again.

[poobert]

The Motown museum is not a major attraction, it's open once a week and there is rarely anyone there. Try again.

Typical pedestrian Metro Detroit think. Of course, factually, the Motown Museum is open 5 - 6 days per week.
http://www.motownmuseum.org/visit/hours-admissions/

Let's not get silly things like facts get in the way of our blindly bitter tirades, though.

The point is: what's all this garbage about "major attractions"? I know plenty of you would love to see a Gibralter Trade Center or Super K-Mart or mobile home village on every corner so there would be "major attractions" but the great cities of the world are made up of residences and art galleries and small museums - they are a sum of their parts. Our thinking for the past 50 years has been this superblock stupidity - malls, endless malls, subdivisions, casinos - and it's all fallen apart. Seriously, who goes to Great Lakes Crossing who doesn't have a criminal record and/or jean shorts?

[Django]

So he doesn't pay taxes then....

Also, I guess I should shutup and blindly believe that the project brings in people that spend millions in Detroit proper.... sure.... because that neighborhood is the one all the developers are fighting for. All that hotel and restaurant congestion is making the commute down Mt. Elliot such a headache.

WTF is wrong with you? Have you ever sat at the Heidelberg for an hour and seen how many cars and busses stop in to see Tyrees work? Garden City might be your scene but Detroit is different, We would rather see an abandoned used as a piece of art than see it turn into nothing then burned. Tyree works constantly on the area, the lawns are mowed and the streets are safe and clean there, he does a good job for the city obviously better that they can do. I wish we had a Tyree for every block like this type area in Detroit. Go sit on Heidelberg for an hour. Of course nobody in the burbs would appreciate this type of creation but this is not the burbs and this thread is not about the burbs.

[subsidized]

I know The Heidelberg Project attracts visitors and I never said it wasn't art. What I said basically was, that personally, I don't care about it, I don't believe that the people that visit Heidelberg spend millions in Detroit proper, and that it has always been a revenue consuming prairie because nobody is paying taxes on these properties. I also said something about not seeing any businesses trying to capitalize on the visitors in the area, which would be common near such an internationally acclaimed attraction. I never said burn the place down or hooray for arson... all I said is good riddance [[to bad rubbish).

ok poobert, you got me... In responding to MSUguy's claim that the Motown Museum was a "major attraction" I made a false claim that it was only open once a week, what an ass I am, but the fact that the museum doesn't bring in hundreds of people every day remains. However, I did not talk shit about The Motown Museum nor did I suggest that some shitty store should be built near or in it's place so just chill out a bit with the wild assumptions Columbus. I love the museum tour and have taken numerous people there over the years.

Django... you're nuts. I have no idea what you are talking about. I can look past the moldy stuffed animals and the hubcaps nailed to the trees and agree that Tyree has done a good job of keeping the area maintained while at the same time painting everything like a 2nd grader with finger paint, but there are a lot of other people that take pride in their neighborhoods and make their best effort to keep it safe and clean... some of them plant gardens on empty lots... Tyree buries boats. And yes, I currently live in Garden City... I apologize.

There's even a children's book about The Heidelberg Project, it's called "Magic Trash: A Story of Tyree Guyton and His Art".

"Magic Trash"... That's the positive acclaim and attention to Detroit he creates... eh?

[sumas]

For what it's worth Guyton started out on a mission to highlight blight with the polka dot invasion. Polka dots would appear all over the city on blighted properties. From that his vision grew to recycle trash in a meaningful message. Some of the art is just fun and whimsical too, but also remind people of the disturbing realities of a city in decline.

I personally always cringe at the doll/stuffed animal house since it is a reminder of all the deaths and sites where people pay homage to senseless deaths. It is a powerful message and one we need.

Is this art, hell yes.

[canuck]

For what it's worth Guyton started out on a mission to highlight blight with the polka dot invasion. Polka dots would appear all over the city on blighted properties. From that his vision grew to recycle trash in a meaningful message. Some of the art is just fun and whimsical too, but also remind people of the disturbing realities of a city in decline.

I personally always cringe at the doll/stuffed animal house since it is a reminder of all the deaths and sites where people pay homage to senseless deaths. It is a powerful message and one we need.

Is this art, hell yes.

Exactly. The gesture of turning decline into a monument is a lot more jarring than leveling old and building new tract houses. But Detroit has suffered so much blight on a monumental level that guyton's absence would be freakier than his conspicuous presence. Yes it is art.

[401don]

The fire was mentioned in the Entertainment section of the Toronto Star. My wife said, "Apparently they burned down some important art installation in Detroit." I didn't know where to begin.

[Django]

Django... you're nuts. I have no idea what you are talking about. I can look past the moldy stuffed animals and the hubcaps nailed to the trees and agree that Tyree has done a good job of keeping the area maintained while at the same time painting everything like a 2nd grader with finger paint, but there are a lot of other people that take pride in their neighborhoods and make their best effort to keep it safe and clean... some of them plant gardens on empty lots... Tyree buries boats. And yes, I currently live in Garden City... I apologize.

I would rather have the work of Tyree in my neighborhood making something creative rather than just letting the abandoned's rot. There is no way in hell that block is not a positive compared to any other blocks north South East or West of Heidelberg. Your statement about 2nd grader finger paint gets no points. Where did you get your fine arts degree? The very fact we argue if its art makes it art. The art is not in what is painted, sculpted, or hung, its in the feeling it gives. Tyree has improved his block, taken something thought of as garbage and turned it around into something beautiful. It wouldn't work in Garden City no doubt, I cant think of one interesting thing in Garden City but it works here in Detroit so why knock it. Im proud to know the man and the pride he has given that area.

On another note the streets say its known who is doing the arsons. I heard that yesterday but it could be just a rumor.

[p69rrh51]

When the "project" started it was more an exercise in thumbing your nose at the city government. At the time I got a kick out of Guyton's lack of respect for a mayor who was more interested in protesting in other cities and purchasing Kuggerands and a city counsel president who was more interested in getting her name in the press than providing the basic services the citizens of the city elected them to provide. In any other city a simple code violation would have been issued and we would not be having this discussion. Now years later we have a shrine to the utter failure of the city to provide the most elementary of services. Who knew at the time this would be the harbinger of the mess we have today.

As for the money generated by the project, I think its most likely higher than estimated. In my routes around the city when I am forced to drive by there is always a good sized crowd in the area around the project. Also what is never mentioned is the income the "tourists" provide some of the residents through their clueless behavior leaving valuables in plain site in their cars while they go out gawking.

Last just a personal observation. I looked at the list of those who support the project. Most were those who spend other people's money. I wonder why he does not get much support from those who actually send their own money on the arts?

[canuck]

When the "project" started it was more an exercise in thumbing your nose at the city government. At the time I got a kick out of Guyton's lack of respect for a mayor who was more interested in protesting in other cities and purchasing Kuggerands and a city counsel president who was more interested in getting her name in the press than providing the basic services the citizens of the city elected them to provide. In any other city a simple code violation would have been issued and we would not be having this discussion. Now years later we have a shrine to the utter failure of the city to provide the most elementary of services. Who knew at the time this would be the harbinger of the mess we have today.

As for the money generated by the project, I think its most likely higher than estimated. In my routes around the city when I am forced to drive by there is always a good sized crowd in the area around the project. Also what is never mentioned is the income the "tourists" provide some of the residents through their clueless behavior leaving valuables in plain site in their cars while they go out gawking.

Last just a personal observation. I looked at the list of those who support the project. Most were those who spend other people's money. I wonder why he does not get much support from those who actually send their own money on the arts?

Again, your comment is very high on the arrogance scale. The Watts Towers in Los Angeles were also seen by many as an eyesore in an otherwise unremarkable hood in the early days. It is now seen as a spirited life's work by an immigrant mason whose lack of a formal education did not prevent him from expressing himself.

[Django]

Great observation Canuck. I just read about the Watts towers and its history of that guy a month ago, always knowing about them but never seeing them up close. Im a No Cal guy, never cared much for So Cal.

Heres a quick Wiki link for anyone interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Towers

[Gannon]

Not sure if anything Tyree does around the city can ever be truly valued by one whose training and/or definition of art includes how much an item can fetch at auction. Let alone understood.


You're talking a different language, Django. This guy wouldn't get the rock stacks, either. He cannot buy them, or profit off your making 'em.


Cheers