Slate Magazine gay prescription for Detroit.

[DetBill]

That is complete bullshit.

Got to side with 313 WX on this one.
Its hardly bullshit when your legally not allowed to marry your partner, legally not allowed to get joint health benefits, and legally not allowed to make major health and decisions and worst of all when the funeral director tells you he is sympathetic to you but cant discuss any funeral arrangements for your partner with you despite his written wishes but has to only talk to family members who ignored him for ten years.
That Cliffy is treating someone as a second class citizen. You obviously have never experienced this. Most straight people thankfully will have no idea of this.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

DetBill, I am not attempting to argue that things wouldn't be better when gay marriage is legalized. I am just arguing that Michigan has shifted, and the state is much more gay friendly than a few years ago, and closer to passing various gay rights laws [[in fact, a number of Michigan communities have passed them). Marriage, with it's assorted rights and responsibilities is of course the big Kahuna. But until then, all is not bleak. Medical/funeral/estate decisions can be assigned via power-of-attorney contract. That just takes planning. And a great many companies do offer spousal-equivalent benefits for gay partners. Gay people used to get beat up, couldn't mention their partner at work, and were forced to live secrets and lies. It's much better than that now, and still getting better.

[Don K]

Mikey, I've lived in the Detroit area since 1978, and I'm in complete agreement with you that the social environment is worlds better now than it was then or even 15 years ago. I'm just pessimistic about these changes being accompanied by changes in the legal environment. I believe a substantial portion of Republican voters are on our side, but gay issues are about 59th on their lists of priorities, so at the end of the day they continue to vote for the bigots who control Lansing. If, say, the 7th [[Northville-Plymouth-Canton), the 12th [[Bloomfield Twp-Pontiac-Auburn Hills-Northeastern OC), and the 13th [[Royal Oak-Troy-Rochester-Rochester Hills) senate districts were to vote Democratic because the Reps are just too right-wing, then I'd say there's hope, but I'm not holding my breath.

[CleveBill]

A friend of mine [[not in Detroit) forwarded the Slate article to me yesterday. My first reaction was "do gay ghettos still exist?" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Certainly, in some large cities 'gay ghettos' are still thriving -- I'm thinking of Castro St. [[SF), Halstead St. [[Chic.), Church St. [[Tor.), etc. -- but more as historical-cultural institutions and tourist destinations as genuine residential neighborhoods. In many other cities, gay men and women have been displaced from the very neighborhoods they had created or rehabilitated [[the South End and Jamaica Plain in Boston, Logan Circle in DC, German Village in Columbus, etc.) by affluent heterosexual yuppies, priced out by inflating property values. Of course, like-minded [[and like-libidoed) individuals will always tend to gravitated to one another, but with the increasing acceptance of homosexuality by main-stream culture, I don't think it's likely that a new, hermetic "gay ghetto" is likely to arise, in Detroit or any other N. American city. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Most of the ideas presented in the Slate article are based on the theories of the "urbanist" Richard Florida, who -- despite have some pretty sound notions -- tends to over-simplify [[or be over-simplified in the press) to "Gay [[men), Artists, and Rock Bands."

[bailey]

If you have a boyfriend you can marry him in New York. You can't marry him in Detroit. Just sayin'...

And that has been ..what? two years? Didn't stop NYC from being a gay mecca for half a century.

What we're lacking in any sort of an economy that attracts people from elsewhere.

Gay marriage will be legal in Michigan within 5 years, 10 years at the latest...either by court ruling or ballot initiative. once that happens, what is the incentive for anyone to move either out or in? A job/career/life passion...etc.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

And that has been ..what? two years? Didn't stop NYC from being a gay mecca for half a century.

What we're lacking in any sort of an economy that attracts people from elsewhere.

Gay marriage will be legal in Michigan within 5 years, 10 years at the latest...either by court ruling or ballot initiative. once that happens, what is the incentive for anyone to move either out or in? A job/career/life passion...etc.

I agree with you, Bailey, except as relates to a timetable. Politician's views are lagging indicators, generally. But the public's embrace of gay rights in Michigan is accelerating so rapidly that I think it will be politically safe for most legislators to vote for it very soon. On the right, the libertarian side is ascendant. On the left, the African-American "church" vote is now beginning to see gay marriage as a civil rights issue, not streetcorner sodomy. Aside from the legislature, I am confident a ballot initiative would now pass to legalize marriage & adoption. I would bet big money if I had it that Michigan will have legalized gay marriage by January 1, 2016. And when it happens, it will be mostly a non-event, which is good.

[Don K]

I agree with you, Bailey, except as relates to a timetable. Politician's views are lagging indicators, generally. But the public's embrace of gay rights in Michigan is accelerating so rapidly that I think it will be politically safe for most legislators to vote for it very soon. On the right, the libertarian side is ascendant. On the left, the African-American "church" vote is now beginning to see gay marriage as a civil rights issue, not streetcorner sodomy. Aside from the legislature, I am confident a ballot initiative would now pass to legalize marriage & adoption. I would bet big money if I had it that Michigan will have legalized gay marriage by January 1, 2016. And when it happens, it will be mostly a non-event, which is good.

Well, Jan 1, 2017, actually, since Equality Michigan has already said they're going to go for a marriage initiative in the 2016 election.

I agree politicians are lagging indicators. Even if Dems controlled the legislature, I'm not sure they would add sexual orientation to the civil rights law, because a fair number of them would remain convinced that their constituents are a bunch of rednecks who would toss them out at the next election.

And I'm not so sure that libertarians really are ascendant in the Rep party. It seems to me there are a bunch of politicians who call themselves libertarians, but mean only that they want to dismantle the government except for those parts that enforce their view of moral perfection.

Finally, I agree that Detroit is not a problem. Detroit only voted narrowly [[51.6-48.4) in favor of Prop 2 in 2004, so by now I'd expect a large majority in favor of marriage equality. And with rare exceptions the members of the legislature from Detroit have been on the right side.