Slate Magazine gay prescription for Detroit.

[A2Mike]

While the role of gays in Detroit's revival is hardly a new topic, Slate is suggesting a systematic and comprehensive approach. How much do you think that would contribute to the overall renewal of the city? Significantly? Marginally? Needs more specifics? http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2..._the_city.html

[313WX]

Well first, Michissippi will have to stop expressing so much hostility towards the gay community.

Part of the reason other cities and states have vibrant gay communities is because the governments and citizens there don't treat them like second class citizens.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Well first, Michissippi will have to stop expressing so much hostility towards the gay community.

Part of the reason other cities and states have vibrant gay communities is because the governments and citizens there don't treat them like second class citizens.

While I'm not holding my breath for an improvement state-wide, the article mentions actions taken by the city. Mayor-elect Duggan's mentioning the gay community in his election night speech is a good example. It's light years ahead of KK's thuggish homophobia. The city government needs to be actively welcoming, and the police sensitized to gay issues and safety.

I think a more pronounced and concentrated LGBT presence in the city would have a significant positive effect on redevelopment. But more importantly, I think it would be reflective of a more important factor. We talk a lot of the "young creatives" and entrepreneurs that Michigan has lost for so long, and how these groups are vital to the city's future. Its true that these groups gravitate to urban cores, but more so to open and diverse communities. If the LBGT community is not welcomed in Detroit, there are a lot of other urban oriented folks who likewise will not feel at home in the city. It's increasingly difficult to be a cutting edge and progressive growth oriented area with a homophobic feel towards it. That's why more and more companies are beginning to actively oppose legislation such and anti-marriage equality measures. Not only do those laws make it difficult to attract qualified gay employees, they turn off many qualified straight people too.

That being said, the article mentions downtown, midtown and Palmer Park as areas for gay investment. IMHO, I'd try the New Center. A nice mix of houses and apartments between Grand Blvd and Virginia Park; Seward street is getting a lot of redevelopment, and the sad and underutilized retail on Woodward just south of Grand has great buildings ripe for some creative shops/restaurants/bars in a nice compact area. And isn't the Woodward Bar still there? It might also encourage redevelopment north of Virginia Park towards Boston Edison. With the Lodge serving as barrier on the west, that area is actually compact enough to at some point be developed into its own stable neighborhood.

[Cliffy]

Well first, Michissippi will have to stop expressing so much hostility towards the gay community.

Part of the reason other cities and states have vibrant gay communities is because the governments and citizens there don't treat them like second class citizens.

That is complete bullshit.

[313WX]

That is complete bullshit.

I appreciate your thorough, well-reasoned argument there Cliffy.

[DetBill]

That is complete bullshit.

Got to side with 313 WX on this one.
Its hardly bullshit when your legally not allowed to marry your partner, legally not allowed to get joint health benefits, and legally not allowed to make major health and decisions and worst of all when the funeral director tells you he is sympathetic to you but cant discuss any funeral arrangements for your partner with you despite his written wishes but has to only talk to family members who ignored him for ten years.
That Cliffy is treating someone as a second class citizen. You obviously have never experienced this. Most straight people thankfully will have no idea of this.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I have never been treated or felt like a second-class citizen for being gay in Detroit or elsewhere in Michigan. The once in my life I was physically attacked- which I fought off- was in Chelsea, the gay center of NYC.

As for gays reviving Detroit, we are a part. But it's not our gayness that is an asset; it is entrepreneurship. Gay men and lesbians open a lot of restaurants and shops. Detroit should focus on expediting the permitting process for small businesses, and minimizing regulation on the operation of those businesses.

Also, since gay couples are less likely than straight ones to have kids [[although that is changing rapidly), we tend to have the time and money to eat out, volunteer, patronize the arts, and renovate old homes. But those things are more specific to young professionals, really, than to gay couples.

Lastly, the gay community itself is as diverse as any other. I can't arrange flowers to save my life; I play hockey and football.

Michigan will in the next few years legalize gay marriage. Then I will have no excuse not to find a husband and switch from apartment renter to homeowner.

[313WX]

I have never been treated or felt like a second-class citizen for being gay in Detroit or elsewhere in Michigan. The once in my life I was physically attacked- which I fought off- was in Chelsea, the gay center of NYC...

...I can't arrange flowers to save my life; I play hockey and football....

I'm glad you've never been a victim of hostility because of your sexuality, though I suspect the bolded has a lot to do with it, as you're not espousing stereotypical gay behavior out in the open, such as you say, "arranging flowers."

That said, that still doesn't change the fact that there's real, institutional hostility occurring here towards the gay community as a whole [[even if these things don't concern you specifically). For example, see all the trouble the lesbian moms in Hazel Park have to go through just to adopt a child through the state. Also, see the legislation the state of Michigan just passed when it came to domestic partner benefits for same-sex couples [[it took the feds to strike it down).

In fact, Detroit did have a somewhat burgeoning gay community in the 70s and 80s. But of course, they were chased out not just because of crime, but specifically because of hate crimes targeted towards them by Detroiters [[the same with the Chinese and Chinatown in the Cass Corridor).

[iheartthed]

I have never been treated or felt like a second-class citizen for being gay in Detroit or elsewhere in Michigan. The once in my life I was physically attacked- which I fought off- was in Chelsea, the gay center of NYC.

If you have a boyfriend you can marry him in New York. You can't marry him in Detroit. Just sayin'...

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Yes, gay marriage is legal in NY, but that's new. It'll be new here shortly, too. I've been in favor of legal gay marriage for 20 years. Before about 5 years ago [[and I still lived in NY then), most of my gay friends there used to say idiotic things like marriage was a "hetero-normative institution from a patriarchal society...". Legal gay marriage is overdue, new where it's legal, and soon-to-be where it's not.

[bailey]

If you have a boyfriend you can marry him in New York. You can't marry him in Detroit. Just sayin'...

And that has been ..what? two years? Didn't stop NYC from being a gay mecca for half a century.

What we're lacking in any sort of an economy that attracts people from elsewhere.

Gay marriage will be legal in Michigan within 5 years, 10 years at the latest...either by court ruling or ballot initiative. once that happens, what is the incentive for anyone to move either out or in? A job/career/life passion...etc.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

And that has been ..what? two years? Didn't stop NYC from being a gay mecca for half a century.

What we're lacking in any sort of an economy that attracts people from elsewhere.

Gay marriage will be legal in Michigan within 5 years, 10 years at the latest...either by court ruling or ballot initiative. once that happens, what is the incentive for anyone to move either out or in? A job/career/life passion...etc.

I agree with you, Bailey, except as relates to a timetable. Politician's views are lagging indicators, generally. But the public's embrace of gay rights in Michigan is accelerating so rapidly that I think it will be politically safe for most legislators to vote for it very soon. On the right, the libertarian side is ascendant. On the left, the African-American "church" vote is now beginning to see gay marriage as a civil rights issue, not streetcorner sodomy. Aside from the legislature, I am confident a ballot initiative would now pass to legalize marriage & adoption. I would bet big money if I had it that Michigan will have legalized gay marriage by January 1, 2016. And when it happens, it will be mostly a non-event, which is good.

[Don K]

I agree with you, Bailey, except as relates to a timetable. Politician's views are lagging indicators, generally. But the public's embrace of gay rights in Michigan is accelerating so rapidly that I think it will be politically safe for most legislators to vote for it very soon. On the right, the libertarian side is ascendant. On the left, the African-American "church" vote is now beginning to see gay marriage as a civil rights issue, not streetcorner sodomy. Aside from the legislature, I am confident a ballot initiative would now pass to legalize marriage & adoption. I would bet big money if I had it that Michigan will have legalized gay marriage by January 1, 2016. And when it happens, it will be mostly a non-event, which is good.

Well, Jan 1, 2017, actually, since Equality Michigan has already said they're going to go for a marriage initiative in the 2016 election.

I agree politicians are lagging indicators. Even if Dems controlled the legislature, I'm not sure they would add sexual orientation to the civil rights law, because a fair number of them would remain convinced that their constituents are a bunch of rednecks who would toss them out at the next election.

And I'm not so sure that libertarians really are ascendant in the Rep party. It seems to me there are a bunch of politicians who call themselves libertarians, but mean only that they want to dismantle the government except for those parts that enforce their view of moral perfection.

Finally, I agree that Detroit is not a problem. Detroit only voted narrowly [[51.6-48.4) in favor of Prop 2 in 2004, so by now I'd expect a large majority in favor of marriage equality. And with rare exceptions the members of the legislature from Detroit have been on the right side.

[Hermod]

More victims for Detroit's GenPop to victimize.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

313, I am not arguing that we're at the forefront of gay rights. We are, in terms of legalities, where many of the Northeastern & Pacific states were five to ten years ago. But a few things I would point out:

1) People who act in an anti-gay manner [[I don't like the term "homophobic") are now largely self-ostracizing. Individuals and businesses stick up for gay people more often than they don't. Being outed for harassing gay people is now more humiliating than being outed as gay, a key cultural milestone we have passed in Michigan.

2) Public polling suggests that opinions in Michigan on gay marriage and adoption has, and continues, to shift towards legalization. I suspect that in the next 2-3 years we will have legal gay marriage and all the associated benefits. Is that too long to wait? Sure. But the light is at the end of the tunnel. Most people, even in Michigan, think of gay people as deviant and threatening. And with more and more people being out of the closet, everyone knows gay people.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

313, what makes you say that gay people here are treated like second class citizens? I am not aware of large waves of gay bashings here. We are able to get jobs and vote and buy property.

If you are referring to gay marriage/adoption rights, that fails to explain why places like New York and Massachusetts and California that have legal gay marriage were gay meccas, with very vibrant gay communities when their laws were just like ours, just a few years ago [[or in California's case, earlier this year).

If life were so bad here for gay people, I assure you, the thousands of happy & healthy homosexuals in Metro Detroit would not be here!

[Cliffy]

313, what makes you say that gay people here are treated like second class citizens? I am not aware of large waves of gay bashings here. We are able to get jobs and vote and buy property.

If you are referring to gay marriage/adoption rights, that fails to explain why places like New York and Massachusetts and California that have legal gay marriage were gay meccas, with very vibrant gay communities when their laws were just like ours, just a few years ago [[or in California's case, earlier this year).

If life were so bad here for gay people, I assure you, the thousands of happy & healthy homosexuals in Metro Detroit would not be here!

Michigan is very gay friendly. The whole "Michissippi" is more of an act by a few people here to throw the whole state of Michigan down the toilet and bitch about how much it sucks and that they are going to get out of the "cesspool".

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Michigan is gay friendly? It was positively painful to watch Michigan's governor twist and turn and not even be able to say one should not be fired for being gay.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/25/rick-snyder-gay-rights_n_4163329.html

Is he a homophobe without the guts to say so? Or not a homophobe and without the guts to say so? Leadership at its worst.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

The squirming of a politician does not a society make.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

The squirming of a politician does not a society make.

Correct, but the laws on the books of the state do reflect on the state and its society. When Michigan passes non-discrimination legislation statewide, things might be different.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Correct, but the laws on the books of the state do reflect on the state and its society. When Michigan passes non-discrimination legislation statewide, things might be different.

What, exactly, would be different? Is there a massive amount of unseen anti-gay discrimination? I am not saying there is none, and I am not opposed to some further anti-discrimination laws. But your post seems to indicate that Michigan is some sort of gay-suppressive state. It's not. And the states with the statewide laws also have their fair share of problems. Gay people are now widely accepted in society. We do not have gay Jim Crow laws in Michigan. Gay people are largely strong and independent, not suffering victims.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

What, exactly, would be different? Is there a massive amount of unseen anti-gay discrimination? I am not saying there is none, and I am not opposed to some further anti-discrimination laws. But your post seems to indicate that Michigan is some sort of gay-suppressive state. It's not. And the states with the statewide laws also have their fair share of problems. Gay people are now widely accepted in society. We do not have gay Jim Crow laws in Michigan. Gay people are largely strong and independent, not suffering victims.

I think its a pretty logical assumption to say that any state that cannot pass anti-discrimination legislation is by definition a "gay-suppressive state". It obviously means that there is a majority in the legislature that is unwilling to say its not OK to fire people, or deny them services, based on their sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation. If that's who's running the state and making the laws, how can it be perceived as gay friendly?

Wasn't it just two years ago that the GOP legislature and Governor banned cities and public institutions from providing domestic partner benefits, thereby eroding rights of the LGBT community? That was not an inconsequential or meaningless move, and made me ashamed of my home state.

[313WX]

I think its a pretty logical assumption to say that any state that cannot pass anti-discrimination legislation is by definition a "gay-suppressive state". It obviously means that there is a majority in the legislature that is unwilling to say its not OK to fire people, or deny them services, based on their sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation. If that's who's running the state and making the laws, how can it be perceived as gay friendly?

Wasn't it just two years ago that the GOP legislature and Governor banned cities and public institutions from providing domestic partner benefits, thereby eroding rights of the LGBT community? That was not an inconsequential or meaningless move, and made me ashamed of my home state.

Good point.

It is the people who elect these representatives into office.

The fact that most of them were reelected must mean that their electorate base has no problem with their representatives bringing forth discriminatory legislation.

[Scottathew]

Ten years ago I voted yes on Michigan Proposal 04-2.

Here I am now with a completely changed perspective. I still find the idea of a man and a man together as unappetizing, this is only because I simply don't prefer that. If I don't want to engage in a homosexual relationship, then I'm free not to, and there's no reason I need to make the decision for other people or try to restrict their happiness.

Back in those days I was a Fox News watching, right-wing talking point parroting, homophobic xenophobe.

I think many people are starting to change their minds in this state and country. Many people around my age [[30) at work openly talk about support for marriage rights for all. Many of us even openly talk about supporting the decriminalization of marijuana, whether we use it or not.

My support of equal marriage rights and wanting to make sexual orientation a protected class are one of the many things that makes me disagree with the republicans that I used to adore.

For those of you that think Michigan is still hateful, I think a second look may be in order. I think if the issue of gay rights [[marriage, anti-discrimination) were put on the ballot, they'd have a good chance of passing if the younger generation voted heavily.

Look at Troy, they ran Janice Daniels out of town, they RECALLED their sitting mayor who fiercely fought it off. Why? Because of homophobic remarks she made on Facebook before she was even mayor. She then doubled-down on her hate speech and tried to explain her hate for homosexuals and was REJECTED by the people of Troy. She then tried to run for council again and got REJECTED.

Times are changing. Especially as the older generation, that reliably votes is starting to pass away. These older voters that grew up calling black people negros and grew up hating anything homosexual are being replaced by younger voters, who care less about regulating the private lives of people, and have much less tolerance for hate and bigotry.

I know we've got a long way to go, but attitudes have shifted very far in the last decade.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I do think that attitudes have shifted, which is one reason why I was especially disappointed with the domestic partner benefits legislation a couple of years ago. Seemed like it was going against the general trend. I just really hope the new administration in Detroit is more proactive and inclusive.