Renisha McBride shot in Dearborn Hgts. while seeking help - 2nd Degree Murder charged

**Meddle** · November-16-13, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Her being hammered is not the reason that she is dead.

Some would disagree with that.

Had she not been drunk, she likely would have driven home safely and none of this would have happened.

Was she merely knocking on the door? Or was she pounding/banging loudly and yelling?

**Meddle** · November-16-13, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

That's a damn long time to be wandering about in the cold and dark, totally shit-faced drunk.

Probably not relevant to the shooting, but that's just a huge gap.

For all we know, she fell down and passed out for a while. She may have simply slept for two or three hours.

We just don't know much and I'm not sure anyone can answer those missing questions. There is only one person who knew what happened during those hours.

**313WX** · November-16-13, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Some would disagree with that.

Had she not been drunk, she likely would have driven home safely and none of this would have happened.

Was she merely knocking on the door? Or was she pounding/banging loudly and yelling?

What does any of that crap have to do with the fact that the guy shot her dead with only, at best, questionable cause?

**DetroitPlanner** · November-16-13, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

What does any of that crap have to do with the fact that the guy shot her dead with only, at best, questionable cause?

Nothing. But her behaviour is called into question. She was drunk and high. She could have avoided smashing her car by being more responsible. She took a chance by selecting that house. I for the life of me do not understand why she did not go to one of the bars on Warren Ave and ask to use a strangers phone. The bars are closer to the accident site and who would be more sympathetic to a drunk? Why it would be another drunk!

This however does not give the homeowner any right to shoot someone for acting like a fool.

I think there is a lesson in this for everyone. Be responsible. Here we have what appears to be two irresponsible people crossing paths.

The prosecutor is right in charging him with manslaughter and unlawful use of a firearm. Lets let the investigation happen. There is a lot here that makes no sense.

**jcole** · November-16-13, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

For all we know, she fell down and passed out for a while. She may have simply slept for two or three hours.

We just don't know much and I'm not sure anyone can answer those missing questions. There is only one person who knew what happened during those hours.

If she fell asleep for two or three hours and her BAC was still .2 or above after she was shot, she should have been dead from alcohol poisoning at the scene of the accident. I don't know how she would have managed to walk away from the scene of that accident.

**Bobl** · November-16-13, 08:01 PM

We don't know, and it doesn't make sense. Let's hope the investigation is complete and accurate, and a jury makes a decision based on facts. This is a tragedy.

**Vic01** · November-17-13, 03:36 AM

Best article yet... [[even if you don't like Mitch, he makes sense this time)

Let’s practice saying the sentence.

“We don’t know.”

http://www.freep.com/article/2013111...092/1001/rss01

**oladub** · November-17-13, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

You're not applying this principle correctly.

What you're saying is that if someone gets hammered and goes out and maims/kills another person then the bar [[enabler) has liability to the victim [[person who was hit/killed), not the perpetrator [[the drunk driver). This is irrelevant in Renisha McBride's case because she is the victim. Her being hammered is not the reason that she is dead. She is dead because Theodore Wafer shot and killed her. So the enabler in this case isn't the people who got her drunk but it's whomever gave Theodore Wafer a gun.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I am saying that BOTH the shooter and the server are liable. Social host liability is the liability of hosts for the injuries and accidents of their guests. Did she not get into a car accident while drunk? She could have killed someone driving around in that state of inebriation. She could have killed herself in an accident. Someone served her too many drinks and before she got into her car. Another thing, isn't 21 the legal drinking age in Michigan? I'm already assuming that the shooter will be charged with manslaughter and gun ordinance violation. I'm not aware of who provided her alcohol but it's odd that the parents and everyone else concerned about this tragedy aren't equally incensed about how Ms. Mcbride got into this situation and who had a hand in it.

If, as a drunk, Ms. McBride had instead died in the accident or walked into traffic, would this even be a story?

**iheartthed** · November-17-13, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

If, as a drunk, Ms. McBride had instead died in the accident or walked into traffic, would this even be a story?

She died of a gunshot wound. She did not die in a car accident. She did not die of alcohol poisoning.

**iheartthed** · November-17-13, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by poobert

"I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail," Walter Simmons, father of 19-year-old Renisha McBride, said, referring to the man charged as the "monster that killed my daughter."

This is what bothers me. Who is the monster? Where were her parents and - Ron fucking Scott of all people - when she was getting super drunk and wheeling around town?

I can tell you that at 19 I came home once, drunk, after a buddy had driven me home, and my father about lost it until I told him I got a ride. Then again my parents cared about me while I was alive. At our house we didn't generally blame other people for our dysfunctionality.

Your actions have consequences, indirectly or directly. If you go around getting superdrunk as a teenager and behind the wheel you are very likely to meet an untimely demise, whether killed or killing someone else.

I'm not justifying his actions but if it weren't for her wildly poor life choices she would be alive today, too. She wasn't the saint she seems to be made out to be in death.

Walk around Michigan State's campus on any given Friday night and you will be tripping over drunk 19 year olds.

**Zacha341** · November-17-13, 09:41 AM

I detest public drunkenness, but the culminating incident is the main issue. The response of the home owner is in question and warrants a full investigation, at minimum! Wafer states clearly to 911 after the shooting that 'someone was banging on my door'...

In the middle of the night, robbers usually ain't banging loudly on your door, they don't want to draw attention!! They're kicking in a door fast or working on the door looks, prying open a window, breaking glass, etc. Not an 'avon calling' knock, or door banging...

The door banging, bell ringing or door knockin' robbers are the crims pretending to be the gas company, etc. or trying to sell you something, trying to gain access thru fraud - or case the house - usually do so the DAY!

As I mentioned before, if you're at home it's best to first call the police, then get your gun, to therefore be ready to apply final lethal response if required. This sequence works better in a court of law.

A shot gun is a wide-spray pellet deployment firearm, unless you are shooting slugs. So there's little need to even get up close on an assailant or aim precisely. This is why shotguns are recommended for women for home invasions.

And, unless tactically trained, I've been told that after your 911 call you go to your 'safe area' and wait for the INTRUDER to ENTER your home, to prevent having the weapon TAKEN from you and to reduce the questioning of your motives!

I am curious as to rather he 'opened' the door or just shot thru the wood, metal, glass and or screen?? If that was the case IMO we are looking at manslaughter.

**oladub** · November-17-13, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

She died of a gunshot wound. She did not die in a car accident. She did not die of alcohol poisoning.

Reading my post more carefully, you might have noticed the sentence, "I'm already assuming that the shooter will be charged with manslaughter and gun ordinance violation." Your thinking is simplistic to the point of being dangerous; a whiskey lullaby. If she had killed herself in the accident, maybe GM could have been sued for not building the car better? People who condone and/or promote underage drinking and driving are also responsible for the fates of drunks. Someone got the underaged Ms. McBride drunk. Who will they be getting drunk tomorrow?

**Zacha341** · November-17-13, 10:17 AM

Yep. It is a 'story' precisely because of what happened at the end. The 'couda-wouda' could be debated endlessly and I am very much against drunks on the road... but the prime issue is what happened when she finally arrived at that home. With all of the banging, I wonder if any other neighbors will come forth with details.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

She died of a gunshot wound. She did not die in a car accident. She did not die of alcohol poisoning.

**iheartthed** · November-17-13, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

Reading my post more carefully, you might have noticed the sentence, "I'm already assuming that the shooter will be charged with manslaughter and gun ordinance violation." Your thinking is simplistic to the point of being dangerous; a whiskey lullaby. If she had killed herself in the accident, maybe GM could have been sued for not building the car better? People who condone and/or promote underage drinking and driving are also responsible for the fates of drunks. Someone got the underaged Ms. McBride drunk. Who will they be getting drunk tomorrow?

You're more concerned about a hypothetical situation that didn't occur than you are about why Renisha McBride was murdered for knocking on that man's door. I'm curious to know why.

**hortonz** · November-17-13, 01:06 PM

Even if the defendant gets off without any serious jail time he'll probably face a civil lawsuit from the victim's family and he'll probably have to move to another city and live under an assumed name with police protection. And all this could have been avoided if he only didn't answer the door.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-17-13, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Nothing. But her behaviour is called into question. She was drunk and high. She could have avoided smashing her car by being more responsible. She took a chance by selecting that house. I for the life of me do not understand why she did not go to one of the bars on Warren Ave and ask to use a strangers phone. The bars are closer to the accident site and who would be more sympathetic to a drunk? Why it would be another drunk!

This however does not give the homeowner any right to shoot someone for acting like a fool.

I think there is a lesson in this for everyone. Be responsible. Here we have what appears to be two irresponsible people crossing paths.

The prosecutor is right in charging him with manslaughter and unlawful use of a firearm. Lets let the investigation happen. There is a lot here that makes no sense.

Maybe she did do into another bar on Warren. I've heard no evidence that she was 'seeking help' except her parents assertion.

Question: What do drunk people do for two hours after smashing into parked vehicles?

Answer: Lots of crazy stuff that isn't what anyone would expect.

**Zacha341** · November-17-13, 01:13 PM

^^^ Well I know our neighborhood drunk was found sleeping in someone else's front yard a few years back. Thankfully he has not driven a car in years...

**mark.vandorn** · November-17-13, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by hortonz

Even if the defendant gets off without any serious jail time he'll probably face a civil lawsuit from the victim's family and he'll probably have to move to another city and live under an assumed name with police protection. And all this could have been avoided if he only didn't answer the door.

Would have also been avoided had a 19-year-old not commited multiple misdemeanors and felonies earlier that evening.

**mark.vandorn** · November-17-13, 04:18 PM

Thank God she hit a parked car that night before blowing a red light and killing innocent people. I have zero sympathy for those who drive drunk--and in this instance super drunk with narcotics in her system. Fleeing the scene of felonious acts says a lot about her character. Far from the angel all of you are making her out to be.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · November-17-13, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by mark.vandorn

Thank God she hit a parked car that night before blowing a red light and killing innocent people. I have zero sympathy for those who drive drunk--and in this instance super drunk with narcotics in her system. Fleeing the scene of felonious acts says a lot about her character. Far from the angel all of you are making her out to be.

You are a tool. She still didn't deserve to die, drunk high or whatever.

**Meddle** · November-17-13, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

You're more concerned about a hypothetical situation that didn't occur than you are about why Renisha McBride was murdered for knocking on that man's door. I'm curious to know why.

No, we're talking about charging whoever served her the drinks as well as the homeowner. They served her the alcohol that set this whole thing in motion. That's a fact, not hypothetical

Had she not been served to the point of being overly intoxicated, this would not have happened. There is more than one person responsible here.

**Zacha341** · November-17-13, 06:52 PM

Was it confirmed that she got her liquor and weed at a bar? Teenagers have many other ways of getting this stuff sadly.

Originally Posted by Meddle

No, we're talking about charging whoever served her the drinks as well as the homeowner. They served her the alcohol that set this whole thing in motion. That's a fact, not hypothetical

Had she not been served to the point of being overly intoxicated, this would not have happened. There is more than one person responsible here.

**Zacha341** · November-17-13, 06:56 PM

UMM, this need not be an either / or thing. She was drunk to the max and that was not good AND she was killed in a questionable manner. It's 'both / and'!

Originally Posted by Meddle

No, we're talking about charging whoever served her the drinks as well as the homeowner. They served her the alcohol that set this whole thing in motion. That's a fact, not hypothetical

Had she not been served to the point of being overly intoxicated, this would not have happened. There is more than one person responsible here.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-17-13, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

You are a tool. She still didn't deserve to die, drunk high or whatever.

Certainly, she didn't deserve to die. But substance abuse often does lead one towards death. She to die. But she was taking a good path to end up dead. [[None of this relieves the homeowner of his moral responsibility.)

**Wheels** · November-17-13, 07:22 PM

Lets look at some facts before we speculate. The first 911 came in at 1a.m.
She had a .22 blood alcohol at the time of death witch was after 4a.m.

Is it safe to speculate she was drinking during the 3+ hour laps of time? I would think so since she would have been drunk to the point of alcohol poisoning at the time of the accident if not dead. With that said where was she for 3+hours and who was she drinking with? I think someone will come forward with more information before this is over.