Renisha McBride shot in Dearborn Hgts. while seeking help - 2nd Degree Murder charged

**mark.vandorn** · November-15-13, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Being drunk or high on weed might have been wrong, and she was probably disoriented, but still no reason for her to get shot in the face. The gunman should absolutely get charged, she didn't pose any danger. Then after he hired a lawyer, he changed his story from it being accidental, to self-defense.

Go bang on doors or imply intent to enter homes at 4:00a around Detroit and see how many houses it takes until you're shot.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · November-15-13, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by mark.vandorn

Race hustlers.

And you're a "race-baiter"

**bailey** · November-15-13, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by mark.vandorn

Don't forget leaving the scene of an accident is a serious misdemeanor.

Not one that justifies a shooting.

**daddeeo** · November-15-13, 09:31 AM

I suspect Worthy will charge the shooter with manslaughter. I also believe a jury won't convict him.

**Bham1982** · November-15-13, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by mark.vandorn

Go bang on doors or imply intent to enter homes at 4:00a around Detroit and see how many houses it takes until you're shot.

While I think you're probably right, I think Bailey is also probably right, and he should be charged if there's no evidence of attempted forced entry. In any case, I don't think a jury will convict.

**aj3647** · November-15-13, 10:10 AM

I just can't see how he can argue self-defense. Castle Doctrine says you can use deadly force to defend your home. But she didn't break into his home. She knocked on his door. That's NOT a crime. You can knock on anyone's front door any time you want and it's not illegal. Knocking on someone's door is not a home invasion, nor an attempt to break in.

So the Castle Doctrine doesn't apply. Self-defense does not allow you to shoot someone who "bangs on your front door loudly." Maybe in Texas that would be legal, but not here.

And I don't care what time of day it was. You can't argue that 2:30pm means it would be manslaughter, but 2:30 am means it's self-defense. The law makes no distinction about time of day. If someone is banging on your door at 3am, CALL THE F*CKING COPS. That's the appropriate response, not firing a shotgun.

The appropriate charge here is manslaughter.

**Zacha341** · November-15-13, 10:57 AM

I've been advised that when you suspect a home invasion, call 911 and AND get out your gun, should you need it per an actual forced entry. You then have a record of an attempt to call the authorities and should you have to respond with full force - due to an actual intrusion - it's all up front.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-15-13, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Baselinepunk

...One could even argue very successfully that if the State didn't cut back on revenue sharing that there would be more funding for cops to be on the streets of our cities, patrols in the area may have been greater, and may have been able to intercept her / prevent this tragic situation from even happening in the first place. ...snip...

How about the person / people who supplied the booze and buds to her? She's underage and I'm pretty sure that's illegal. What about the folks who allowed her to drive away from where she was partying at?

While I don't think the homeowner should be held harmless, I strongly question the implications that paint this guy as some sort of "hunter of black women" hyperbole. This kind of shit only dilutes an important voice in our community.

I'm surprised you're the first person to suggest that this is all Snyder's fault. Why am I singing Officer Krupke?

**Bham1982** · November-15-13, 11:32 AM

Wow, he's being charged with 2nd degree murder. I would be really surprised to see a jury convict, but who knows, we have not seen the evidence.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-15-13, 11:53 AM

Is Kim Worthy as sensible as she seems? Charging him seems reasonable given the facts. I strongly defend 'stand your ground' laws -- nobody should be required to retreat from their homes when threatened with violence. But that right comes with responsibilities, too.

I have confidence that our legal system will look beyond the race of the individuals and the historic injustices -- and deliver a fair verdict based on facts.

**mark.vandorn** · November-15-13, 12:07 PM

IMO Worthy is using this case to gain exposure and a ticket out of the overworked and understaffed prosecutors office. County exec or Congresswoman Worthy?

**Gistok** · November-15-13, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by mark.vandorn

Worthy is only using this case to gain national attention so she can flee the overworked and understaffed prosecutors office and run for public office. Not a chance the murder charge sticks. But go ahead and squander your already razor thin resources and take this to trial. Detroit being Detroit.

Corrections....
1) Wayne County Prosecutors Office IS public office.
2) Detroit is in bankruptcy not Wayne County Courts.
3) Shouldn't that be "Wayne County being Wayne County"?

**wvernon** · November-15-13, 01:06 PM

The guy must have been loaded on Ambien or something to "accidentally" shoot through his locked screen door. Finger stays off the trigger unless you mean it.

**bailey** · November-15-13, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Wow, he's being charged with 2nd degree murder. I would be really surprised to see a jury convict, but who knows, we have not seen the evidence.

Leaves room to plead out to a lower offense.

Today, Worthy said the home showed no signs of an attempt to force entry, and that according to the evidence, Wafer opened the front door himself.

IF that's true he should be convicted of at least manslaughter owing to the negligent use of the firearm on that fact alone.

**Danny** · November-15-13, 01:36 PM

Shoo! What a relief! Justice is being served for Renisha McBride. If Kim Worthy did prosecute that 'Dearbornistani' Heights homeowner for killing Renisha. Then a race riot will begin.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-15-13, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

I just can't see how he can argue self-defense. Castle Doctrine says you can use deadly force to defend your home. But she didn't break into his home. She knocked on his door. That's NOT a crime. You can knock on anyone's front door any time you want and it's not illegal. Knocking on someone's door is not a home invasion, nor an attempt to break in.

So the Castle Doctrine doesn't apply. Self-defense does not allow you to shoot someone who "bangs on your front door loudly." Maybe in Texas that would be legal, but not here.

And I don't care what time of day it was. You can't argue that 2:30pm means it would be manslaughter, but 2:30 am means it's self-defense. The law makes no distinction about time of day. If someone is banging on your door at 3am, CALL THE F*CKING COPS. That's the appropriate response, not firing a shotgun.

The appropriate charge here is manslaughter.

Manslaughter seems reasonable -- but we don't know the facts.

You say she knocked on the door. Why do you think that? I've heard nothing but rumor on what happened that night. I would think there are only two people who really know what happened -- and one of them is dead.

A lot of people are focused on physical evidence. While physical evidence might help excuse the white guys behavior, lack doesn't help rule out danger to this guy. One can be quite aggressive without breaking things. Its easy to imaging circumstances that might excuse the gentleman's belief that he was in danger. Say he cracked the door open. She put her foot in it and screamed 'get out of my f***in' house'. She pushes her full weight against the door and starts forcing herself in. I have no evidence of anything like this. But unless there's more hard evidence out there, neither does anyone else have proof that it didn't happen that way.

I like a society where we don't railroad people on the basis of our opinions of whether they did exactly the right thing. What we want to know if was he reasonably in fear for his life, and was the young lady acting in a threatening manner. I wish for justice here after the facts are heard. If this guy is guilty, so be it.

**corktownyuppie** · November-15-13, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Leaves room to plead out to a lower offense.

IF that's true he should be convicted of at least manslaughter owing to the negligent use of the firearm on that fact alone.

Agreed. I don't think this case will ever see a jury. I know some people say that a jury will never convict. I don't see it that way. I'll wait to see his side of the story, but I think they'll get a conviction.

**Wesley Mouch** · November-15-13, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Agreed. I don't think this case will ever see a jury. I know some people say that a jury will never convict. I don't see it that way. I'll wait to see his side of the story, but I think they'll get a conviction.

Agreed on this. I defend the unpopular when I defend this guy -- because we should always defend until proven guilty -- with facts known.

But it is difficult for me to accept that a young lady died. Even a badly behaved, drunk, high, and perhaps angry young lady. She probably deserved to be locked up and jailed, but death by gunshot is hard to accept.

Unfortunately, bad things happen when you act badly. This story would be quite different if the drunk lady struck an innocent pedestrian rather than parked cars. Bad behavior begets bad results. Sometimes fatal. At least nobody innocent was killed by her bad behavior. Its a bad situation. But it was caused by the bad actions of 1 or 2 people.

**noise** · November-15-13, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by mark.vandorn

IMO Worthy is using this case to gain exposure and a ticket out of the overworked and understaffed prosecutors office. County exec or Congresswoman Worthy?

This new poster sounds an awful lot like a black female 20-something grad student that's had a few other usernames here in recent months.

**oladub** · November-15-13, 03:52 PM

There must be some local laws that prohibit shooting outdoor. Whether or not the owner was very cognizant after being awoken at 3:40am and accidentally squeezed the trigger when peering through his peephole at whomever was outside, he is still responsible for discharging his gun outdoors. So in addition to possible manslaughter charges, he misused a firearm. Drunks who kill someone in an accident are guilty of manslaughter but we have additional gun laws being violated here.

Ms. McBride had just crashed a car without hurting anyone. Her blood alcohol levels were over twice the legal limit. It might also be useful to go after whomever served her this liquor and set this tragic chain of events in motion.

**Baselinepunk** · November-15-13, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I'm surprised you're the first person to suggest that this is all Snyder's fault. Why am I singing Officer Krupke?

Yikes!

You've got a realllllllllly big hole in that routine of yours there, pal.

Clearly not your best stuff.

Perhaps you should just stick to the kiddie end of the pool from now on. The adult conversations on this thread are obviously above your head.

**Cliffy** · November-15-13, 04:26 PM

He will be found not guilty but I feel sorry for this guy. He was at home minding his own business when this drunk started all this trouble. Now he has to pay for lawyers and probably fearful someone will attack him because they think he's a "racist".

**corktownyuppie** · November-15-13, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Cliffy

He will be found not guilty but I feel sorry for this guy. He was at home minding his own business when this drunk started all this trouble. Now he has to pay for lawyers and probably fearful someone will attack him because they think he's a "racist".

I do feel sorry for him. But I also feel sorry for the woman who died and her family.

I actually believe that they both made some really f-ing stupid decisions, and if either of them had not been so dumb, all of this could have been prevented. But they didn't. And even though they're both to blame, he's alive, and she's dead, and she didn't deserve that.

I think this guy's going to jail.

**Baselinepunk** · November-15-13, 05:04 PM

The victim in this situation crashed her car at approximately 12:57 am.

The victim is shot at approximately 4:40 am.

So about 3 hours and 40 minutes are between crash and her death.

The autopsy reflected that the victim has a BAC of approximately .22 at the time of her death.

I can't remember right now just how fast the body metabolizes alcohol but I do know that she had to have been more intoxicated at the time of the crash.

Question for the board [[especially those in law enforcement):

How much could her BAC have been at the time of the accident?

I've personally blown .22 in the street once and I know I was pretty shit-faced and I couldn't find my ass with both hands. I was lucky [[and very thankful) to be pulled off of the street by law enforcement all those many, many years ago.

So again, what about those folks who were with her while she was partying? Why did they let her leave in such condition? Why haven't we heard from them?

Seems pretty odd that everyone else in this town is bumping their gums about this situation; except those folks who were responsible for facilitating an environment for her to fail.

Who ever those folks are, they should be held accountable as well, right?

**Cincinnati_Kid** · November-15-13, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I do feel sorry for him. But I also feel sorry for the woman who died and her family.

I actually believe that they both made some really f-ing stupid decisions, and if either of them had not been so dumb, all of this could have been prevented. But they didn't. And even though they're both to blame, he's alive, and she's dead, and she didn't deserve that.

I think this guy's going to jail.

+1 Couldn't agree more.