Grosse Pointe vs. Bloomfield Hills: best days behind them?

[mark.vandorn]

There's a difference between a full-service ATHLETIC CLUB and a yoga studio or a 24/7 weight room. But apparently Detroit yes is a regional economy think tank that knows where to invest millions of dollars better than...guys with actual millions to spend.

[313WX]

There's a difference between a full-service ATHLETIC CLUB and a yoga studio or a 24/7 weight room. But apparently Detroit yes is a regional economy think tank that knows where to invest millions of dollars better than...guys with actual millions to spend.

Agreed.

A decent 24/7 membership gym would be a more than welcome change for a lower east side/NE Detroit as far as I'm concerned.

I'm still holding out for a Lifetime Fitness, but a LA Fitness would do.

As long as the equipment is state of the art, the gym is clean, the patrons are sanitary [[I.E. they wipe the machines down after using them) and the equipment doesn't break down frequently.

[nain rouge]

Really think that greenways and the Riverfront walk could play a positive role in integrating GPs with Detroit. Planned greenway on Kercheval could have practical and aesthetic appeal. Recommend GPs support extension of riverfront walk as far east as possible, up to GPP line. These positive developments in Detroit could benefit GP access to downtown as well as improving city between GPP and downtown.

Your big mistake is thinking the GPs have any interest in integrating with the Detroit. They don't even let Detroiters into their parks - do you think they want the RiverWalk ending in there back yard, after it's winded through a bunch of rough Detroit neighborhoods? Or that a GP citizen would feel safe using a greenway along Kercheval, which is pure desolation for most stretches?

Hell, there's still serious talk about figuring out a way to make Kercheval inaccessible for Detroit drivers. You should've seen the hornet's nest I kicked up when I bickered about the GPs forbidding outsiders from visiting the lakefront parks. The last thing GPers want is integration.

The bottom line is that urban planning is blind without sociology.

[bailey]

Your big mistake is thinking the GPs have any interest in integrating with the Detroit. They don't even let Detroiters into their parks - do you think they want the RiverWalk ending in there back yard, after it's winded through a bunch of rough Detroit neighborhoods? Or that a GP citizen would feel safe using a greenway along Kercheval, which is pure desolation for most stretches?

Just as a point of fact, residents of the GPs exclude residents of the other GPs from the resident's only parks. For example, as a GPFarms resident, I can not go to see a movie [[Gravity is tonight's movie) at GP Park's private movie theater unless I go as a guest.

So, it's not a "mean GPers won't let Detroiter's in" NO ONE execpt for residents who pay for it get to be there. They are, for all intents and purposes, private clubs. Shall we all demand access to the Detroit Yacht Club? Its in a STATE PARK now after all.

[p69rrh51]

Just as a point of fact, residents of the GPs exclude residents of the other GPs from the resident's only parks. For example, as a GPFarms resident, I can not go to see a movie [[Gravity is tonight's movie) at GP Park's private movie theater unless I go as a guest.

So, it's not a "mean GPers won't let Detroiter's in" NO ONE execpt for residents who pay for it get to be there. They are, for all intents and purposes, private clubs. Shall we all demand access to the Detroit Yacht Club? Its in a STATE PARK now after all.

bailey save your nice prose! I have been trying to get that point through for four years on here, but nobody gets it or wants to get it. They have their prejudices about GP and are never going to change them.

[Bham1982]

Lifetime Fitness, LA Fitness and the like are not the same thing as the local Y or whatever. There's a pretty significant difference. Lifetime Fitness, especially, is a really nice gym for local standards.

[nain rouge]

I'm not disputing that GPers have a right to private parks. But I don't believe it's good for the region that entire shoreline from Alter Road to 16 Mile is essentially private. You basically have the areas in and around Belle Isle open to the public and that's it, unless you want to drive down to Wyandotte or Trenton, or up to 16 Mile or 23 Mile. Any other meager parks in Detroit abut giant smelly factories or are overgrown.

I guess I pick on GPers in particular because they take whole regionalism approach so popular in Metro Detroit to its logical extreme.

[Gistok]

Any other meager parks in Detroit abut giant smelly factories or are overgrown.

Bingo.... all the municipalities from Alter all the way up to Metropolitan Beach Metropark... DO maintain their parks with their local tax dollars.

But as a SCS resident, I too would like to visit some of the GP parks... and perhaps they mine... but the only stipulation is that YOU HAVE TO BE A RESIDENT.

It's amazing to see how well attended the Grosse Pointe Park park is... while the nearby park at Alter Road is rarely visited by Detroiters.

[Bham1982]

GP does have unusual park policy, but it's based on location. Other communities would not be inundated with BBQing poor folks if they opened their parks to all. Somewhere like Birmingham does not have "hang-out" type parks, and too far from the hood to guide park use decisions.

[A2Mike]

The tacit assumption of the current Blooomfield/GP discussion seems to be that the two locations are the only attractive options for anyone of means whose livelihood is centered in the Greater Detroit/SE Michigan area. Assuming that a successful professional, entrepreneur or celebrity desiring to build an ambitious house, whether in a traditional style by a noted architect like Norman Askins or Peter Pennoyer or in a contemporary mode by a celebrated architect such as Richard Meier or Frank Gehry, where else in the area would there be an agreeable physical setting, suitable city services, easy access to freeways, airports and shopping, desirable schools, and the rest of the amenities associated with prosperous living?

[Bham1982]

Assuming that a successful professional, entrepreneur or celebrity desiring to build an ambitious house, whether in a traditional style by a noted architect like Norman Askins or Peter Pennoyer or in a contemporary mode by a celebrated architect such as Richard Meier or Frank Gehry, where else in the area would there be an agreeable physical setting, suitable city services, easy access to freeways, airports and shopping, desirable schools, and the rest of the amenities associated with prosperous living?

First thing, if I'm getting Richard Meier to build my house, it won't be in Michigan.

But if you're asking "Where are the other wealth centers", I don't think the Pointes have more upper middle income wealth these days as the Rochester-Oakland Township area, or that general Northville-Novi-Lyon area.

They are really totally different areas from either Birmingham-Bloomfield or the Pointes, though. They aren't in competition. These places are McMansion country, where you go for new construction.

But look at the prices in these areas. New construction basically starts at 500k. It isn't cheap.

There's also parts of Huntington Woods/Pleasant Ridge, any lake in Oakland County, Grosse Ile, and a few other areas.

One area not mentioned is Franklin, which is absolutely loaded in the Rouge ravine and has the Gilberts, the Farbmans, and all kinds of huge money, but Franklin is a tiny nothing and basically an extension of Bloomfield.

[Gistok]

A2Mike, the Bloomfield/GP area is mostly built up... but there are stlill open areas elsewhere in the metro area that could attract a high priced home... parts of the Rochester-Oakland Hills-Stoney Creek area has some very expensive homes... as do the Plymouth and Northville area... Grosse Isle, Barton Hills area near AA, and even parts of the Clinton River valley in Macomb County.

One rarely thinks of Clinton Township as having high end homes, but the Villa di Fiori subdivision near the Clinton River [[near Millar Rd. & Garfield)... has homes in the exclusive sub of up to 10,000 sq. ft.

[Gistok]

.... and Mike & Marian Ilitch live next door to Franklin in tiny Bingham Farms.

[Bham1982]

.... and Mike & Marian Ilitch live next door to Franklin in tiny Bingham Farms.

Yeah, Bingham Farms too. Basically that Rouge ravine area around 13 mile-14 mile has big money, whether in Franklin, Bingham Farms, Beverly Hills, or whatever.

A lot of homes are hidden away from the street, and everything is heavily wooded, so it's hard to tell, but check out aerials on Bing Maps, Google Maps or whatever. Especially look right off Franklin Rd. between 13 and 14 [[which you would never know just driving through).

[Pro-Techt]

Bham gets it. Oakland County in general has some architectural abominations that merit trials at The Hague and there’s some gorgeous classic architecture as well. The prevalence of architectural atrocities is far-lower in the Pointes.

GP is located on one of the nicest freshwater lakes in the country for pleasure boating and part of the world’s largest freshwater systems. We can be at our boats in five minutes and on the water in ten. Our parks are essentially private clubs unto themselves, with comparable amenities and private marinas.

Another thing that’s oft overlooked is that GP is legitimately a community. Kids ride their bikes to school, to the corner store, and to the parks. We don’t have a highway running through the middle of town [[which is nice, but is a drawback too) separating us from each other.

GP people, by and large, are more polite. I work in Bloomfield Hills and when I hold the door open for ladies and say please and thank you, people look at me strangely. Birmingham has less of those people, but in BH I am clearly an outlier.

Grosse Pointe has more of a classic sense of style as well. You see far less $300 jeans and Ed Hardy t-shirts and far more polos and pearls, as we say.

Yes, there’s less of a nightlife in GP, but then I can be downtown in ten minutes. I would also argue that the Park strip is coming back and with the increase economic activity in the area soon we’ll be back to the days of weekend evenings looking like mardi gras.

Is there less shopping in GP? Absolutely, go to Sommerset around Christmas time and then tell me you’re not thankful that it is 30 minutes away. The only thing worse than a mall at Christmas is listening to people complain about driving there the rest of the year. You can have your shopping and droves of aspirational undesirables clogging your roadways, thank you very much.

GP is far more tied to downtown than BH and Birmingham, which is tied far more to the faceless glass towers of Troy. Right now, I would be short suburban office space and long downtown office space, if I were looking at the trend. As for the demographic picture of GP [[BH and Birmingham, as well) having masses of old people, just look at our county’s demographics. It was just worse here because for the last eight years young people couldn’t get a job in SE Michigan to save their life. That trend is starting to reverse.

By the way, someone mentioned something about liquid wealth in GP. I will say this, one wealth management office from a bulge bracket bank is the second-largest in the world as measured by assets under management. There’s an astounding amount wealth in SE Michigan in general and GP in particular, it’s just that there wasn’t any wealth generation for the last ten years.

Don’t count out GP, or BH and Birmingham. Though, I would say Birmingham is probably overvalued right now from a market prospective, otherwise I like that town. BH is just ghastly and filled with people of poor breeding and even worse bearing. I wouldn’t live there if you paid me.

Out of all the posts in this thread, this one hit home to my opinion the most. Having recently moved to GPP from S. Florida [[lived there for 7 yrs), I can honestly say living here is better then I thought it would be. My kids are extremely happy and I truly believe it's an incredible place to live and raise a family. The parks are amazing. Especially Windmill Pointe which has a huge residents only movie theater with super cheap concessions. And then there's Patterson Park where they can go ice skating for free with their friends. Even though tough sections of Detroit are in our backdrop, I really don't feel threatened at all. I believe the GPP Police has less than a 2 minute response time which I feel is phenomenal. Yes, the people aren't super trendy, but they are into raising their families. To me, there is nothing more important at this point in my parenthood.

[GP For Life]

Out of all the posts in this thread, this one hit home to my opinion the most. Having recently moved to GPP from S. Florida [[lived there for 7 yrs), I can honestly say living here is better then I thought it would be. My kids are extremely happy and I truly believe it's an incredible place to live and raise a family. The parks are amazing. Especially Windmill Pointe which has a huge residents only movie theater with super cheap concessions. And then there's Patterson Park where they can go ice skating for free with their friends. Even though tough sections of Detroit are in our backdrop, I really don't feel threatened at all. I believe the GPP Police has less than a 2 minute response time which I feel is phenomenal. Yes, the people aren't super trendy, but they are into raising their families. To me, there is nothing more important at this point in my parenthood.

Welcome to GP! We're glad you feel at home!

[Gistok]

I have to agree, Hermod... for being a well informed DYES poster, your paranoia is somewhat surprising.

There are courtesy vans that constantly patrol the Detroit freeways for folks who are broken down on the freeway.

Your fear reminds me of the folks living at 32 Mile Rd. who boast that they haven't been in Detroit in 30 years...

[poobert]

I have to agree, Hermod... for being a well informed DYES poster...

Just being completely honest here - since when? He is the embodiment of Frank Rizzo.

[Bham1982]

Why is 696 more "strategic"? In case you have to go to Novi or East Lansing? 94 goes through Detroit, DTW, Ann Arbor, Chicago.

Jobs and amenities, obviously. 696 is the main east-west corridor for the region.

If you're doing a long-distance drive to somewhere out-of-state, it doesn't really matter whether you're exactly on the direct freeway or not. No one cares if you're 300 or 310 miles from a once-a-year destination; they do care if you're 5 or 15 miles from a daily destination.

[rb336]

Jobs and amenities, obviously. 696 is the main east-west corridor for the region..

No. Unless you are limiting the region to SCS to Novi
696: SCS/Warren/MH/RO/SF/FH
96: Detroit/Livonia/Plymouth/FH/Novi
94 [[just from SCS): SCS/the Pointes/Detroit/Hamtramck/Detroit/Dearborn/Taylor/Romulus/Ypsi/Ann Arbor

[Hermod]

Why is 696 more "strategic"? In case you have to go to Novi or East Lansing? 94 goes through Detroit, DTW, Ann Arbor, Chicago.

When I come up to visit my son in Macomb Township [[roughly 22 Mile and Heydenreich), I go airport-I275-I696 rather than airport-I94. If I break down or have a flat, I would far rather be on I275 or I696 than I94.

[milt721]

When I come up to visit my son in Macomb Township [[roughly 22 Mile and Heydenreich), I go airport-I275-I696 rather than airport-I94. If I break down or have a flat, I would far rather be on I275 or I696 than I94.

Wow! That is really out of the way. About 12 miles out of the way in each direction.

[Jaybiz]

When I come up to visit my son in Macomb Township [[roughly 22 Mile and Heydenreich), I go airport-I275-I696 rather than airport-I94. If I break down or have a flat, I would far rather be on I275 or I696 than I94.

No offense buts that's crazy to go so far out of your way just to avoid I94, I've never heard of such a thing. What exactly are you afraid of?

[bailey]

No offense buts that's crazy to go so far out of your way just to avoid I94, I've never heard of such a thing. What exactly are you afraid of?

the blacks.

[Jaybiz]

the blacks.

hahaa! Clearly that's the fear. Ironically Macomb Township is nothing special and it is becoming rapidly diverse, maybe in a few years Hermod will stop visiting son altogether.