Grosse Pointe vs. Bloomfield Hills: best days behind them?

[Hermod]

GP didn't develop a large shopping district because the uber-wealthy could just run down Jefferson to downtown Detroit when they needed to shop. With the decline of downtown, they now have to go further afield [[OC and MC) to do their shopping.

[Bham1982]

Shopping districts bring in tacky, obnoxious and sometimes criminal outsiders. see: Birmingham/Troy

I have a feeling if downtown Detroit ever gets retail going, that DYes will not agree with this line of reasoning. If even an Old Navy opened there would be a 1,000-post DYes thread.

[Gistok]

I have a feeling if downtown Detroit ever gets retail going, that DYes will not agree with this line of reasoning. If even an Old Navy opened there would be a 1,000-post DYes thread.

Yes.... but likely half of that would be involving some insipid argument involving something else that you will claim to be an expert about dealing with.... namely the "glass is half full/half empty" pointlessness....

[stasu1213]

Grosse Pointe borders Detroit unlike other upper incomed suburban cities. That is Grosse Pointe's downfall. Grosse Pointe should be more multiracial but the same mindset.

[A2Mike]

Where culture is concerned transit can make a huge difference in accessibility. I worked in downtown SF but lived in Burlingame and used the BART trains to get get to work days; I could stay downtown after work to go to symphony, the opera, museums etc. and still get back to Burlingame late on BART, Caltrain or the SAMTRANS express buses. It's just not possible to get around here without a car and those who are older or somehow impaired need to live where they can fill most of their needs effectively. When I moved back to Michigan the best choice for me was Ann Arbor, but for all its fine points it would still be nice to get to Detroit more easily to attend the DIA and the DSO. A trip last year to a performance at the Chamber Music Society, in the Bloomfield area, was like planning an ascent of K2. At least next week I can hear my beloved SF Symphony at close-by Hill Auditorium. An extensive and well co-ordinated transit system would allow most metropolitan residents, drivers or not, more latitude in living where they liked without sacrificing many of the amenties [[or necessities) of urban life.

[313WX]

The wealth is still here. You just have to find it.

The keyword there is "producing." Naturally, as the Auto Industry is now globalized AND leaner, Metro Detroit isn't nearly as wealthy as it was before [[the money that's still here is all old) nor is it producing as much wealth as it was before. Thus, the region's best days are likely behind it.

[motz]

The keyword there is "producing." Naturally, as the Auto Industry is now globalized AND leaner, Metro Detroit isn't nearly as wealthy as it was before [[the money that's still here is all old) nor is it producing as much wealth as it was before. Thus, the region's best days are likely behind it.

Eh, I kind of disagree here. I work at a not-Quicken loan company and we've got a pretty strong mortgage business here in the Detroit-Metro region. Beyond that, yeah, we're lacking some of the diversity, but I don't think our "best days are behind us". My generation has gotten tired of Chicago and such, I know more people who've moved back in the past 2-3 years than moved away.

[gameguy56]

Eh, I kind of disagree here. I work at a not-Quicken loan company and we've got a pretty strong mortgage business here in the Detroit-Metro region. Beyond that, yeah, we're lacking some of the diversity, but I don't think our "best days are behind us". My generation has gotten tired of Chicago and such, I know more people who've moved back in the past 2-3 years than moved away.

I would argue that Chicago is kind of played out with the kids these days. Detroit is edgier, has more of a 'cachet'.

But I'm not sure what that has to do with the real wealth creators. The McMansions at 30 mile and west out to MI-23 are still going to boom with New Money. I still feel like the GPs have such tremendous staying power though due to the lake, their location close to downtown, and their magnificent architechture.

By comparison the bloomfields just seem like an older Oakland Township.

[jerrytimes]

Some of these posts are pretty damn funny. Personally I'd rather live in in Grosse Pointe. In the Bloomfields, the people are so uppity it's disgusting. I've worked in both areas and the people in Oakland county as a whole are so stuck up it's disgusting.

[nain rouge]

Wow, you took that very personally. I'm just giving you my opinion as an outsider that couldn't afford to live in either locale.

Bottom line is that the Grosse Pointes have there own semi-urban areas - the Bloomfields don't. Yes, a Bloomfield resident could drive to Birmingham, but in that same time a Grosse Pointer would be looking up at the skyscrapers in Detroit.

And Bloomfield has a more central location? To what, Pontiac? Birmingham and Royal Oak really aren't that big of deal. Those cities are for overgrown frat boys and old people that are scared of Detroit.

Your average Bloomfield snob probably prefers Great Lakes Crossing, since the "riffraff" can take the bus to Somerset. And don't try to tell me that the typical main road in the Bloomfields isn't heavily residential. Bloomfield Hills has to encapsulate the least vibrant stretch of Woodward in the metro area.

But OK, OK, you have a couple hills.

[Hermod]

Your average Bloomfield snob probably prefers Great Lakes Crossing, since the "riffraff" can take the bus to Somerset.

From a superficial view of Great lakes Crossing and the diversity thereof, I think that GLC can boast a significant contribution of Detroit and Pontiac to its clientele.

[Bham1982]

From a superficial view of Great lakes Crossing and the diversity thereof, I think that GLC can boast a significant contribution of Detroit and Pontiac to its clientele.

And there are buses to GLC too, from Flint no less. And, of course, both Birmingham and Bloomfield have SMART buses. I doubt it makes any difference whether or not there are buses.

[MaxCady]

Detroit was the economic engine that produced much of the wealth that flowed into the Pointes but the days of the auto barons are long over. With Detroit basically an economic wasteland now, I see the demand for the Pointes decreasing. What was once an enclave of Detroit's wealthy corporate titans has lost it's relevance now that Detroit is bankrupt and unable to sustain itself.

In the decades to come I can see the Pointes becoming similar to areas like Palmer Woods and Sherwood Forest; a snap shot of the area's glory days but with property values far below where they should be.

[A2Mike]

Detroit was the economic engine that produced much of the wealth that flowed into the Pointes but the days of the auto barons are long over. With Detroit basically an economic wasteland now, I see the demand for the Pointes decreasing. What was once an enclave of Detroit's wealthy corporate titans has lost it's relevance now that Detroit is bankrupt and unable to sustain itself.

In the decades to come I can see the Pointes becoming similar to areas like Palmer Woods and Sherwood Forest; a snap shot of the area's glory days but with property values far below where they should be.

Your assessment is quite correct. The elite areas of any city reflect where that city stands in the economy of the times. Detroit's decline is mirrored in GP's lowered profile among the country's most affluent communities. Lakeshore was once lined with estates, not subsivisions, when Detroit was a dominant force in the nation's economy, but now seems a shadow of its former self - the saving grace being some gems on the sidestreets. That Fifth Avenue and London's West End remain atop the world's most coveted residential districts is a testament to their respective cities' continued renewal and relevance to changing times. GP's best hope is a strong regional response to the opportunities of our own times.

[p69rrh51]

Your assessment is quite correct. The elite areas of any city reflect where that city stands in the economy of the times. Detroit's decline is mirrored in GP's lowered profile among the country's most affluent communities. Lakeshore was once lined with estates, not subsivisions, when Detroit was a dominant force in the nation's economy, but now seems a shadow of its former self - the saving grace being some gems on the sidestreets. That Fifth Avenue and London's West End remain atop the world's most coveted residential districts is a testament to their respective cities' continued renewal and relevance to changing times. GP's best hope is a strong regional response to the opportunities of our own times.

I have lived in GP for over 45 years and have been hearing this BULLSHIT since I moved here and yet to quote Lowell GP is like old man river its keeps moving on. I am always bewildered that 30 ish homes that were razed between the 1950's and 1980's are considered the end of GP. There are still 1000's of homes designed by the greatest concentration of architectural talent in Metro Detroit[[neither Birmingham or Bloomfield Hills comes close), but it seems that because those 30 homes were torn down [[most before many on here were born) that GP is doomed. Its funny its been 30 plus years since the last of them were razed and GP is still standing. In the early 1980's and just recently the area took a hit but both times as the economy rebounded so did GP. Right now the the realtors in GP are crying due to the lack of homes to sell. GP has always been a bargain when compared to similar areas around the country.

Unfortunately everyone's view of GP is from Lakeshore. For GP residents Lakeshore is the last street we would live on.

Last all those 1000's of homes are in very good to exceptional condition-"a testament to the residents of GP's continued renewal and relevance to changing times."

[Bham1982]

I have lived in GP for over 45 years and have been hearing this BULLSHIT since I moved here and yet to quote Lowell GP is like old man river its keeps moving on. I am always bewildered that 30 ish homes that were razed between the 1950's and 1980's are considered the end of GP.

I think this is a good quote illustrating why people have different perspectives. You are speaking of architectural quality, and I have mentioned property values. From your perspective, the lack of teardowns is indicative of some "good"; and I don't disagree. But from a market perspective, it means less rapacious development, basically implying that the land in the Pointes, from a relative perspective, isn't that valuable. If the Pointes were so hot, teardowns would be a problem.

[p69rrh51]

I think this is a good quote illustrating why people have different perspectives. You are speaking of architectural quality, and I have mentioned property values. From your perspective, the lack of teardowns is indicative of some "good"; and I don't disagree. But from a market perspective, it means less rapacious development, basically implying that the land in the Pointes, from a relative perspective, isn't that valuable. If the Pointes were so hot, teardowns would be a problem.

Bham you need to get over here sometime, and I would be more than happy to give you a tour. What do tearsdowns have to do with land value? Maybe in Birmingham they are a sign of growth whether one likes them or not. Here there are plenty of teardowns but there is also a fair amount of open land. Also unlike Birmingham the teardowns here are replacing less desirable homes built in the 50's 60's and 70's. When its all said and done with the quality of the construction, size and diversity here, there is no need to replace the existing housing stock.

[Gistok]

Unfortunately everyone's view of GP is from Lakeshore. For GP residents Lakeshore is the last street we would live on.

Last all those 1000's of homes are in very good to exceptional condition-"a testament to the residents of GP's continued renewal and relevance to changing times."

p69rrh51... it's probably best that they stay on Lakeshore with their blinders on... going down Windmille Pointe, Vendome, Cloverly, Kenwood, Lincoln, 3 Mile Dr., Provencal, et al... will only confuse them...

[DTWflyer]

Again this doesn't have to be an either/or discussion...

Apples and oranges comparsions don't help to make ones point.

Also, Bham/Bloomfield is highly ideal for one who works in Auburn Hills or Southfield so do not discount its location just simply because GP is closer to downtown Detroit.

[Bham1982]

Speaking of Birmingham, the town has lost much of the character that made it great the last 10-15 years. The foreclosure crisis put lots of rentals and cheap homes on the market. The push for nightlife made the town attractive to those that want a "scene." The newcomers are not the type of people that were moving to Birmingham in 1998. The new Birmingham is tacky, loud and ostentatious. It's very possible the housing demand is strong, but that doesn't mean the town hasn't changed, public schools aren't as great, etc.

I agree that Birmingham has a different character than 15 years ago, and that new feel could be characterized as tacky and obnoxious, but the schools haven't declined, at least not based on test scores. They've actually improved as the city got wealthier [[not implying causation, though). Test scores used to trail Bloomfield, they now usually exceed their neighbor.

[313WX]

Bloomfield/Birmingham is also an easy commute to Milford and Dearborn.

So is Grosse Pointe to Dearborn via I-94.

In fact, I'd say it's a much easier commute than from Birmingham/West Bloomfield.

[dtowncitylover]

Bloomfield/Birmingham is also an easy commute to Milford and Dearborn.

LOL That's the biggest joke if I've ever heard one. Bloomfield/Bham area is on average 2-5 miles from the nearest freeway then your stuck in traffic on those freeways and you have to connect to multiple freeways. And taking Telegraph is just as awful if not worse.

[A2Mike]

This has become an unpleasant place to post. One did not expect such a vociferous response for an earnestly posted opinion. Time to check out, I suppose.

[Gistok]

This has become an unpleasant place to post. One did not expect such a vociferous response for an earnestly posted opinion. Time to check out, I suppose.

Naw.... A2Mike.... just realize there's a few folks here that like to hear themselves argue... the rest are all pretty reasonable... no need to check out.... but there is an ignore filter where you can select specific people's posts to not show up....

[rb336]

This has become an unpleasant place to post. One did not expect such a vociferous response for an earnestly posted opinion. Time to check out, I suppose.

There are always cretins when the internet is involved. Or life itself. At least human life.