United Artists Theatre

[Detroitdave]

This is how it's done folks, this can be done , don't believe what they are trying to sell you.
Here is the proof.
https://www.acehotel.com/losangeles/...tre-ace-hotel/
Mic drop

[Wesley Mouch]

This is how it's done folks, this can be done , don't believe what they are trying to sell you.
Here is the proof.
https://www.acehotel.com/losangeles/...tre-ace-hotel/
Mic drop

Do you know how many seats the UA-LA has?

Seeing that excellent sales photo, my first thought is that the Detroit UA is much better -- and that's saying a lot of course as the LA version is still way cool.

[Gistok]

Do you know how many seats the UA-LA has?

Seeing that excellent sales photo, my first thought is that the Detroit UA is much better -- and that's saying a lot of course as the LA version is still way cool.

When they originally opened the LA UA had 2,200 seats, the Detroit UA had 2,070 seats, and the [[now razed) Chicago UA had 1,739 seats.

For some odd reason, none of the downtown LA theatres was very large, and had no more than 2,450 seats, while the largest downtown Detroit theatres had 5,174 [[Fox), 4,050 [[Michigan), 3,384 [[Capitol/Opera House), 2,975 [[State) and 2950 [[Oriental).

[Gistok]

On Facebook's Terrible Ilitches [[scroll down a few pages) there's an entire thread about how the United Artists Theatre looked back before the Ilitches bought and let rot the building.

David Grossman owned the building, but never had the money to fix it up. But it was still in decent [[although worn) condition....

https://www.facebook.com/TERRIBLEILI...ref=nf&__xts__[0]=68.ARCZYoHDlZTBTy1070cPVlhuRO8PVUxXPePj9Ti37X0vww KZ_yCHK1-8rKHrUWneR9Xy4qT5HSJ_EKzPg0UsCzgQ8-5ulreDloqvltvcZMxxCoRRg3GhBDlOvU7op0Qj4Ais12xb_Qym qZDacNJhoCLsFkbiyxa6gOjoegVXWOg_yCKLZRFhXm1h-rfyjeT-hqGNHKyXw0AxxFDfnJ9-D6nQmOaDmVwL7XqH8ipZw9OyEhiDG2flQRfTEf0yMnn9Awvh7q J67h52cXP-JKvaqCBM8gr2_8IPhsPxEiR1XE8ZaCEFR6Ag8wt7YOqM1Azhjd uGciSIHsiDbiGqa5s2hA9Ob_M7

[[Even though the link doesn't look like it works... the first part takes you to where you want to go...)

Now, thanks to the Ilitch's "demolition by neglect" policy over the last 22 years of ownership... the decision to want to tear it down is based on the Ilitches neglect.

[ABetterDetroit]

It also may be true that a certain number of parking spaces are REQUIRED by city codes.

What’s the point of just making shit up that fits your own ideological narrative?

There is no shortage of restored, renovated and repurposed buildings in The City of Detroit including residences in the last few years that did not add any significant parking.

“It also may be true” that it is well past the time to stop criticizing Detroit for anything and everything when you are inventing crap out of thin air that doesn’t exist just so you can affix BLAME on the city.

https://detroitmi.gov/departments/bu...t-requirements

[JK313]

Looks like it’s on the agenda for the next historic district commission meeting
https://detroitmi.gov/sites/detroitm...t%20Agenda.pdf

[Gistok]

I hope to see some folks here at the request to demolish the United Artists Theatre meeting. It's the last downtown theatre we have that is restorable [[the National and Michigan are not). It is already mothballed, and may be needed in the future, so why raze it for parking, when there is AMPLE parking all around it... thanks to the Ilitches [[and city underground GCP garage).

Some food for thought at the meeting...

1) when the equally bad condition Capitol Theatre [[more than twice the size of the UA) was restored... it too looked horrible... but it was the plaster shell that needed restoration... over 90% of the plasterwork was replaced.

2) The Ilitch's were the ones that let it deteriorate in their 22 years of ownership [[new roof was added only about 8 years ago). They were shamed by the National Trust for Historic Places in 2005 to do something with the building, but the Ilitches ignored them.

3) This theatre has amazing acoustics, and was a Spanish Gothic/Art Deco masterpiece. It would be a travesty to demolish the last potential gem venue restoration project to be had in the entertainment district.

[EastsideAl]

This theatre has amazing acoustics

So much so that the Detroit Symphony Orchestra used it for recording in the Dorati era. Back when Orchestra Hall was a ruined shell that was in danger of falling to the wrecking ball.

[Gistok]

The great fan vaulting along the ceiling of the United Artists was patterned on the Perpendicular Gothic ceiling [[circa AD 1500) of the great Henry VII Chapel at the back of Westminster Abbey.

C. Howard Crane's knowledge of historic architectural styles was never in doubt. Crane said that if the architecture of the venue was pleasing to the eye, it would be pleasing to the ear as well... hence the wonderful acoustics.

Sadly neither Emmett Moten nor the Ilitches has any clue about what will likely be lost...

[kathy2trips]

The great fan vaulting along the ceiling of the United Artists was patterned on the Perpendicular Gothic ceiling [[circa AD 1500) of the great Henry VII Chapel at the back of Westminster Abbey.

C. Howard Crane's knowledge of historic architectural styles was never in doubt. Crane said that if the architecture of the venue was pleasing to the eye, it would be pleasing to the ear as well... hence the wonderful acoustics.

Sadly neither Emmett Moten nor the Ilitches has any clue about what will likely be lost...

I feel sick. In all this time, nobody could be bothered to save/repurpose this architectural gem while building shoddily constructed ugly shit? The acoustics in this place were AMAZING!

[Whitehouse]

Well, well....

The topic that introduced me to this forum resurfaced. For those looking, page 7. More than 10 years ago. I was away for a while and haven't kept by. So a lot of things happened while I was away.

Back then I must have been a detective. Always looking for interesting stuff on the internet concerning a topic. Sad to see that the theater seems to be on its last legs.

Anyway,
Wishing you a happy new year of course.

[JK313]

https://detroitmi.gov/sites/detroitm...rt%20FINAL.pdf

There’s a good amount of pictures towards the end showing the interior of the building/theater and it’s current condition.

[bpstrat]

Thanks, this really shows the condition the theater is currently in, which is something I've been wondering. It looks pretty rough, but not as bad as I thought and there is still quite a bit of plaster and detailing to be found. The lobby looks much better and at least two of the maidens still exist [[page 109)!

It doesn't look like a lost cause to me, but of course I'm biased :-). It seems like a shame to tear this down for 20 or so parking spaces :-[[

[Gistok]

Thanks, this really shows the condition the theater is currently in, which is something I've been wondering. It looks pretty rough, but not as bad as I thought and there is still quite a bit of plaster and detailing to be found. The lobby looks much better and at least two of the maidens still exist [[page 109)!

It doesn't look like a lost cause to me, but of course I'm biased :-). It seems like a shame to tear this down for 20 or so parking spaces :-[[

I agree with you... much of what we see is the outer shell in areas where the plasterwork has deteriorated. But so much of what was installed originally had lots of repetition of reuse of plaster molds. That can be done again, as it was in Orchestra Hall and the Detroit Opera House.

The only thing that has me worried is what looks like the use of jacks holding up the balcony overhang. If that is the case, then that would be a major structural issue.

And yes I too was surprised to see that there are surviving plaster Indian maiden busts that didn't get taken out by scrappers.

[EastsideAl]

It doesn't look like a lost cause to me, but of course I'm biased :-). It seems like a shame to tear this down for 20 or so parking spaces :-[[

It would be an act of civic vandalism. Something the Ilitches are unfortunately not unfamiliar with.

As for that report, you would think that someone could have at least held their phone steady when they took the pictures. But from what one can see, the plaster work looks more intact than I would have thought. It certainly doesn't look much worse than the pre-renovation shots of Orchestra Hall or the Opera House/Broadway Capital, or the Book Cadillac for that matter. It looks just as salvageable as those places were, with the application of care and money. Of course, if the Ilitch family and/or Moten have to come up with a reason to tear it down that's better than "we need a little more parking", I'm sure they will. Then the place will need a $avior.

[Gistok]

The worst damage was to the rotunda lobby [[grand foyer)... which is 8 sided. I do recall seeing [[elsewhere, not in these images) that at least one of the 8 sides to the repetitive circular lobby has its' plasterwork intact... which means that molds could be made to replicate the other 7 sides. So even that space could be recreated in plaster.

Also, an image reminder showing how bad the Opera House [[Capitol Theatre) looked before/after restoration.

[NSortzi]

I'm glad to see they're planning a more traditional renovation of the bottom two floors. The original renderings showed those floors maintaining its mid century modern architecture it currently has. Some of the units are two levels too, which is relatively rare in Detroit at the moment. If the theater was to be restored this would have the potential to be a game changing project, but with the loss of the theater it just seems like an average reno.

[Zads07]

The Detroit HDC meets on Wednesday to talk about this project.

Go and voice your opinions.

https://detroitmi.gov/events/regular...KG3M1t9v_1FWJs

[NSortzi]

Anyone attend the meeting? How did it go?

[masterblaster]

Anyone attend the meeting? How did it go?

They didn't get to the theater demolition until 4 1/2 hours into the meeting. A representative of either the architect or developer spoke in favor of the demo. He said HUD wouldn't provide funding unless the theater portion was demo'ed. He also said the purpose of the demo was NOT to add more parking spaces.

He also said the theater was beyond repair, that it would actually cost less to build a brand new UA theater, and he made a good point in that the EXTERIOR portion of the theater is not attractive [[remember portions of the theater were built behind the old Tuller Hotel and was not meant to be seen, so that portion was not made aesthetically pleasing).

Only 2 people came out to speak against the demo: the president of Preservation Wayne and activist Francis Grunow.

The question at hand was: will the demolition of the theater portion of the building negatively impact the surrounding designated historic districts in that part of downtown - The commission agreed that it would negatively impact that area.

[Atticus]

They didn't get to the theater demolition until 4 1/2 hours into the meeting. A representative of either the architect or developer spoke in favor of the demo. He said HUD wouldn't provide funding unless the theater portion was demo'ed. He also said the purpose of the demo was NOT to add more parking spaces.

He also said the theater was beyond repair, that it would actually cost less to build a brand new UA theater, and he made a good point in that the EXTERIOR portion of the theater is not attractive [[remember portions of the theater were built behind the old Tuller Hotel and was not meant to be seen, so that portion was not made aesthetically pleasing).

Only 2 people came out to speak against the demo: the president of Preservation Wayne and activist Francis Grunow.

The question at hand was: will the demolition of the theater portion of the building negatively impact the surrounding designated historic districts in that part of downtown - The commission agreed that it would negatively impact that area.

So if the theatre is not approved for demolition, does that mean Illitch wins a consolation victory in that he can say to the city: “I can’t/haven’t redeveloped the United Artist building portion as promised, because the authorities won’t let me demo the theatre to [[supposedly) get my loan.”

Maybe that was the plan all along. As now Illitch can continue to do nothing... but this time with an “excuse”.

[DetroitSoldier]

They didn't get to the theater demolition until 4 1/2 hours into the meeting. A representative of either the architect or developer spoke in favor of the demo. He said HUD wouldn't provide funding unless the theater portion was demo'ed. He also said the purpose of the demo was NOT to add more parking spaces.

He also said the theater was beyond repair, that it would actually cost less to build a brand new UA theater, and he made a good point in that the EXTERIOR portion of the theater is not attractive [[remember portions of the theater were built behind the old Tuller Hotel and was not meant to be seen, so that portion was not made aesthetically pleasing).

Only 2 people came out to speak against the demo: the president of Preservation Wayne and activist Francis Grunow.

The question at hand was: will the demolition of the theater portion of the building negatively impact the surrounding designated historic districts in that part of downtown - The commission agreed that it would negatively impact that area.

I am torn about this. I absolutely want to see the theater saved. However, is the current status of the neighborhood better with an empty building and theater, or an active building with a torn down theater? That debate has torn at me in this entire matter. I feel bad either way I go about justifying one or the other. I know the historic commissions's objective is not to look at the neighborhood, but the historic value. But the whole matter is tough to tackle.

[Gistok]

They didn't get to the theater demolition until 4 1/2 hours into the meeting. A representative of either the architect or developer spoke in favor of the demo. He said HUD wouldn't provide funding unless the theater portion was demo'ed. He also said the purpose of the demo was NOT to add more parking spaces.

He also said the theater was beyond repair, that it would actually cost less to build a brand new UA theater, and he made a good point in that the EXTERIOR portion of the theater is not attractive [[remember portions of the theater were built behind the old Tuller Hotel and was not meant to be seen, so that portion was not made aesthetically pleasing).

Only 2 people came out to speak against the demo: the president of Preservation Wayne and activist Francis Grunow.

The question at hand was: will the demolition of the theater portion of the building negatively impact the surrounding designated historic districts in that part of downtown - The commission agreed that it would negatively impact that area.

Apparently the developer rep didn't see the article in the dailies that HUD had no objection to keeping the theatre portion. Or maybe he assumed that the Historic Commission didn't read that article?

Also, the removal of the Tuller didn't have much of an impact on the view of the United Artists theatre... just another excuse to tear it down. The UA theatre can only be seen from the vast Ilitch parking lots behind the UA complex. Does that somehow detract from the "Ilitch parking experience"??

http://www.detroiturbex.com/content/...uat/index.html

The United Artists Theatre is made of red brick. Nothing a power wash can't improve... or paint the damn thing. Ya want to talk about unsightly... go look at the Fine Arts Facade suspended with a steel framework for 10 years.

I'm not buying these lame excuses for why it should be torn down....

[swingline]

Regarding the UA theater renovation, what possible successful business model exists for spending at least $25 million plus whatever endowment would be needed for an operating budget? Only an unprecedented gift from a wealthy benefactor could ever make the numbers work. It could never work as a for-profit venture. Folks shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the theater's value or merit derives solely from it's interior [[80% lost at this point) and it's potential programming. It has no exterior architectural distinction.

Getting the lights back on in the UA building is much more important to the continuing revitalization of downtown Detroit. An infill project for the rest of the UA block [[a huge surface parking lot blighting Grand Circus Park) is more important to the continuing revitalization of downtown Detroit. It would be very bad if saving the theater blocked either of these things from happening. Of course it's "possible" to renovate the theater. But it's not feasible. The theater footprint can assist in making other projects on the block feasible though.

[JonWylie]

Regarding the UA theater renovation, what possible successful business model exists for spending at least $25 million plus whatever endowment would be needed for an operating budget? Only an unprecedented gift from a wealthy benefactor could ever make the numbers work. It could never work as a for-profit venture. Folks shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the theater's value or merit derives solely from it's interior [[80% lost at this point) and it's potential programming. It has no exterior architectural distinction.

Getting the lights back on in the UA building is much more important to the continuing revitalization of downtown Detroit. An infill project for the rest of the UA block [[a huge surface parking lot blighting Grand Circus Park) is more important to the continuing revitalization of downtown Detroit. It would be very bad if saving the theater blocked either of these things from happening. Of course it's "possible" to renovate the theater. But it's not feasible. The theater footprint can assist in making other projects on the block feasible though.

There is no plan for an infill project and will the Illitch family owning the lot, there is essentially no hope for one. If an infill project was planned for the rest of the block, I'm sure some people would be ok with it.