Southfield trying to become a mini-city like those on Woodward.

**cmubryan** · January-10-13, 10:26 PM

Let's face it, Southfield still has a lot going for it! In what other suburb are there 30+ story gleaming glass skyscrapers, a nice civic center with a gorgeous library, a very diverse housing stock from post-war bungalows to late 60s modern quad levels to 90s Mcmansions. Southfield still has some higher end hotels [[Westin and Marriott), decent shopping, nice parks, a renowned university [[Lawrence Tech) and is in the geographical center of the whole metropolitan area.

Why does Southfield catch a lot of flack? Probably because of the white flight that has taken place in the city over the past 30 years. The city is 70% African American and as a result is no longer seen as "desirable." Is this deserved? Depends on who you are asking. Yes, the school system is no longer a quality district, crime rates are not the best and the area in and around Northland Center resembles inner city Detroit with all of the abandonment and vacancy that exists there. However, the city still boasts many of the features listed above which in my opinion make it a great suburb.

**D_Town** · January-10-13, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by cmubryan

Let's face it, Southfield still has a lot going for it! In what other suburb are there 30+ story gleaming glass skyscrapers, a nice civic center with a gorgeous library, a very diverse housing stock from post-war bungalows to late 60s modern quad levels to 90s Mcmansions. Southfield still has some higher end hotels [[Westin and Marriott), decent shopping, nice parks, a renowned university [[Lawrence Tech) and is in the geographical center of the whole metropolitan area.

Why does Southfield catch a lot of flack? Probably because of the white flight that has taken place in the city over the past 30 years. The city is 70% African American and as a result is no longer seen as "desirable." Is this deserved? Depends on who you are asking. Yes, the school system is no longer a quality district, crime rates are not the best and the area in and around Northland Center resembles inner city Detroit with all of the abandonment and vacancy that exists there. However, the city still boasts many of the features listed above which in my opinion make it a great suburb.

The city does get a flack because of the so called high crime rate, but I thought it was one of lowest in the inner rings. I'm pretty sure Warren has a higher crime rate but people really don't talk about that.

Shollin · January-10-13, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by D_Town

The city does get a flack because of the so called high crime rate, but I thought it was one of lowest in the inner rings. I'm pretty sure Warren has a higher crime rate but people really don't talk about that.

Nope

**Vic_doucette** · January-11-13, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Over by Shaarey Zedek there are very beautiful neighborhoods. And more. If you haven't seen great housing in Southfield, you have not been looking in the right places.

I live in one of those houses and I love it -- and my neighborhood, despite its two main faults:

1. Insufficient street lighting
2. No sidewalks [[yes, that damned "walkability issue). Being so close to a large Conservative temple, the lack of sidewalks, especially along Bell Road, has always been puzzling to me. I grew up in Lathrup Village in the 1960s and knew my current neighborhood pretty well before I moved into it.

And speaking of Lathrup Village, while it does have beautiful housing stock, when we were looking to move to this area circa 2004, we looked at a number of LV houses and found them almost universally in need of big, expensive repairs. I found a house I liked, but would have had to sink $50,000 into it to make it livable. No, thanks.

I have found Southfield a great place to live despite its flaws. City services are generally excellent and the cops got here fast the one time they needed to be here.

Southfield is also home to my favorite thing in the whole world, The Miracle League of Michigan, a baseball program for special-needs kids with a rubberized, wheelchair-accessible diamond at the Southfield Municipal Complex. We'll celebrate out 10th anniversary in June!

www.michiganmiracle.org

**Bham1982** · January-11-13, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Vic_doucette

2. No sidewalks [[yes, that damned "walkability issue). Being so close to a large Conservative temple, the lack of sidewalks, especially along Bell Road, has always been puzzling to me.g

I would guess that very few Conservative Jews walk to their synagogue. I don't think it would be any different than Reform Jews, or Catholics, for that matter.

Now Orthodox Jews; that's obviously another story. But I doubt Shaarey Zedek members are walking to services. Most probably live more around West Bloomfield/Commerce these days anyways.

**Detroitnerd** · January-11-13, 04:23 PM

Ferndale definitely wins in the nightlife and dining category.

**Vic_doucette** · January-11-13, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I would guess that very few Conservative Jews walk to their synagogue.

Actually, there's quite a bit of foot traffic in the neighborhood on worship days. There are many who go in vehicles, but I can sit on my porch or look out the window on days of worship and plenty of people walking to and fro.

**Novine** · January-11-13, 11:57 PM

"Ferndale definitely wins in the nightlife and dining category."

It's far better than it was 5 years ago to say nothing of 10 years ago. But according to Shollin, the presence of a dollar store in the downtown completely undercuts those claims. The last time I was in Ferndale a few weeks ago, the dollar store was empty so Shollin is going to have to find a new reason to trash Ferndale's revival. Other than Shollin, I don't know anyone who hasn't seen how much Ferndale has turned around in the past 15 years and that turning 9 Mile into a pedestrian friendly corridor played a huge part in that.

Shollin · January-12-13, 12:05 AM

When did I say Ferndale hasn't improved? Ferndale was a pit in the 80's. The only way Ferndale could've gotten worse would've been if it had been annexed by Detroit. I don't see where this revival is coming from. The city continues to lose people at a pace as fast or faster than other inner ring suburbs. Maybe Eastpointe can slap some bars and restaurants at 9 Mile and Gratiot and have a so called revival.

**Bham1982** · January-12-13, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

The city continues to lose people at a pace as fast or faster than other inner ring suburbs.

Because Ferndale generally isn't desirable to "traditional" families [[crappy schools which have had violence), but is desirable to singles, young couples, etc.

Originally Posted by Shollin

Maybe Eastpointe can slap some bars and restaurants at 9 Mile and Gratiot and have a so called revival.

Possibly, but Eastpointe has a crappier location [[less central with less neighboring affluence), has a crappier housing stock [[postwar stuff more than Ferndale's older stuff), is less walkable, and doesn't really have a downtown.

**brizee** · November-04-13, 11:21 AM

Good luck with that.

NONE of this , not the rehabs in Detroit or building something that's not there in Southfield.

Not one of these projects is gonna last without real public transportation.

**Bham1982** · November-04-13, 11:36 AM

Has 0% chance of happening. Next!

**poobert** · November-04-13, 12:18 PM

What a fucking joke. Every single jerkwater 'burg in Metro Detroit wants to be the replacement Detroit. Whatever. They can all cannibalize each other for all I care. Bunch of geniuses at the helm.

**nain rouge** · November-04-13, 12:28 PM

If I wanted a dense, walkable community, I'd move to River Rouge or Ecorse! Southfield has no shot.

**313WX** · November-04-13, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

If I wanted a dense, walkable community, I'd move to River Rouge or Ecorse! Southfield has no shot.

I was thinking Warren myself, but I like the cities you list as better options.

**jaytheory** · November-04-13, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I was thinking Warren myself, but I like the cities you list as better options.

I was confused for a second. this is sarcasm.

warren. has to be the worst town around here

**Bham1982** · November-04-13, 12:48 PM

Warren, River Rouge, and Ecorse aren't the first places to come to mind when I think "dense, walkable communities", but I guess compared to Southfield they are, kinda?

Problem is the only "dense, walkable" part of Warren is absolutely terrible, and the rest of Warren looks like a lower class Southfield.

**Detroitnerd** · November-04-13, 01:01 PM

They can't expect people to move to Southfield until they fix schools and crime. Once they fix those problems, then people will move in.

**cman710** · November-04-13, 01:09 PM

While the odds of this ever coming to fruition may be long, I think it is a great sign that they are at least trying to move in the direction of a more urban, walkable built environment. This kind of approach would never have been attempted twenty or thirty years ago.

**nain rouge** · November-04-13, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Problem is the only "dense, walkable" part of Warren is absolutely terrible, and the rest of Warren looks like a lower class Southfield.

Warren isn't dense, but the residential areas of River Rouge and Ecorse are/were pretty packed, with all kinds of businesses fronting on Jefferson, Southfield, and Coolidge. There aren't driveways, everyone has an alley, and yards are small to nonexistent. Pretty typical for urban 1920s America outside of the coasts. If you want to see what a typical working class Detroit neighborhood was like, River Rouge and Ecorse are it.

**mtburb** · November-04-13, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Warren isn't dense, but the residential areas of River Rouge and Ecorse are/were pretty packed, with all kinds of businesses fronting on Jefferson, Southfield, and Coolidge. There aren't driveways, everyone has an alley, and yards are small to nonexistent. Pretty typical for urban 1920s America outside of the coasts. If you want to see what a typical working class Detroit neighborhood was like, River Rouge and Ecorse are it.[/COLOR]

Wyandotte, where I am currently, has a pretty similar atmosphere, plus, after Detroit, it's the oldest incorporated city in Wayne County. Sure, the western half has hundreds of postwar homes thrown in, though. The high school has similar architecture to Detroit's older [[and remaining) high schools, as do a couple of elementary schools. In addition, most of the types of businesses you would find in any American town just before the Great Depression began can still be found along Biddle, Eureka, Ford [[Northline) and Fort Street [[although the latter mostly wasn't populated until the postwar years). In fact, the home I'm currently in was built the same year the Depression began and still has a back alley and no driveway, even today.

**NoHeartAnthony** · November-04-13, 03:24 PM

Wyandotte, Hamtramck, Ferndale, and East Dearborn are going to be your best Detroit representations.

**D_Town** · November-04-13, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

They can't expect people to move to Southfield until they fix schools and crime. Once they fix those problems, then people will move in.

Lets be real. Even if crime [[we all know where a lot of it comes from) and schools are some of the best in the metro area, people are still not going to move in and we all know what the real reason is...

**Detroitnerd** · November-04-13, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by D_Town

Lets be real. Even if crime [[we all know where a lot of it comes from) and schools are some of the best in the metro area, people are still not going to move in and we all know what the real reason is...

Yup, I totally agree with you. I was being facetious. We all know Southfield will become what Detroit was in the 1970s -- a center for jobs but with declining services, schools and real estate values -- and why this will be the case. You just can't talk about it without being accused of playing a certain card ... I forget just which one right now ...

**DetroitPlanner** · November-04-13, 03:49 PM

Lets lift all of the boats around here. We should be looking for excellence no matter if the area happens to be in the City or a Suburb. We are one economic region and intra-regional competition is somewhat healthy if done correctly. http://www.pbs.org/programs/make-no-little-plans/

I can understand folks not wanting to convert farms or forests to newly developed land. This area however is different as it has been urban for at least 40 years.

Quality projects in nearby suburbs will need to be met with quality within the City limits. Everyone on the board here needs to ask, why is this being floated now? Is it because they recognize that if they do not do anything that they will lose even more business to Detroit? Isn't this a good thing in terms of making the region more attractive, and ultimately economically viable?