The push for 4 A.M. last call is back.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Awesome point! The 'give-and-take' factor is so obvious here. If I drink I'll be best to do it at home......!

[motz]

Well, not everyone at a bar or restaurant late at night has been a-drinking since lunch. When I worked in New York, many bars and restaurants catered to people [[like other restaurant and bar professionals such as MikeyinBrooklyn) who get out of work late. I've eaten many a post-midnight dinner in life.

I can't count the amount of times when I was working retail during Christmas time that I'd get off work around 12:30 and meet up with friends at a bar or restaurant and grab some food and a drink or two. Bars open later doesn't mean more drunks, doesn't mean that magically more people will not show up for work, etc. Those people will drink regardless of whether cutoff is 4am or not. They will get too drunk to show up for work at their house. Plus, this isn't some mandatory law, but instead like the Sunday-before-noon [[which, by the way, was supposed to cause every single God-fearing, Church-going family to be hit by drunk drivers) law, a bar needs to purchase a special license. I don't see the issue of allowing business owners more options to make more money and generate more tax revenue for the state.

[illwill]

The cops are already over worked and stretched very thin.

[Honky Tonk]

The cops are already over worked and stretched very thin.

True, but we could certainly use the extra revenue.

[motz]

I guess my big question to those who oppose it is... What is to stop these people from drinking between 2am and 7am at their own homes? I don't see any difference with these people drinking at home, besides the government missing out on more tax revenue. Hell, mandate that the extra tax revenue be dedicated towards police departments. That isn't a half bad idea.

[sumas]

As stated I am ambivalent. Neither for or against. Must say though, if people are drinking in their homes between 2am and 7am, that they aren't on the roads.

I

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

There are legitimate arguments for having different times for closing pubs, but there are also legitimate reasons to have bars & restaurants open later. That's why cities and towns should be able to create their own rules and times. A college town, a bedroom community and an urban entertainment district should not necessarily have the same policies. Also, the communities should be able to adapt their own rules, in response to various factors including crime stats.

[Hermod]

One, two, one, two, three go

All the girls all get prettier at closing time
Oh, they all begin to look like movie stars
All the girls all get prettier at closing time
When the change starts taking place it puts a glow on every face
Of the fallen angels of the back street bars


If I could rate them on a scale from one to ten
I'm looking for a nine but eight could work right in
Few more drinks and I might slip to five or even four
But when tomorrow morning comes and I wake up with a number one
I swear I'll never do it anymore


All the girls all get prettier at closing time
Oh, they all begin to look like movie stars
All the girls all get prettier at closing time
When the change starts taking place it puts a glow on every face
Of the fallen angels of the back street bars


I don't mean to criticize the girls at all
'Cause I'm no Robert Redford even overhauled
But we all picture in our minds a girl that looks just right
Now ain't it funny, ain't it strange the way a man's opinions change
When he starts to face that lonely night


All the girls all get prettier at closing time
Oh, they all begin to look like movie stars
All the girls all get prettier at closing time
When the change starts taking place it puts a glow on every face
Of the fallen angels of the back street bars
The fallen angels of the back street bars

[sumas]

Don't get me wrong, I am a happy drinker, I just think it a bit creepy that "buzzed" driving rules are getting extremely rigid but the state keeps opening venues for allowing expanded drinking. It's plain weird to me.

[sumas]

hermod, I read the lyrics and somehow it seemed the tune for Santa Lucia fit.

[Hermod]

hermod, I read the lyrics and somehow it seemed the tune for Santa Lucia fit.

It is a C&W song done by Mickey Gilley

[Cliffy]

There are legitimate arguments for having different times for closing pubs, but there are also legitimate reasons to have bars & restaurants open later. That's why cities and towns should be able to create their own rules and times. A college town, a bedroom community and an urban entertainment district should not necessarily have the same policies. Also, the communities should be able to adapt their own rules, in response to various factors including crime stats.

No police department in any type of city wants a bar to be open until 4 am. Secondly, the last thing you want is drunks getting on the road near rush hour. This has nothing to do with religion and all that nonsense. It has everything to do with the "Only bad things happen when you leave a place open until 4 am that serves alcohol".

[sumas]

I am still fence straddling. I have had a life long love affair with alcohol. I keep my business at home. In our youth, we certainly knew all the blind pigs etc and no doubt could steer people to existing ones. Mostly, I am leaning to a 4 am closing date as really bad news.

Maybe this opinion comes from some drunk nailing our car and many others on our street recently. That poor sucker is in a world of hurt now i'm sure.

Drink if you want, just don't drive.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

No police department in any type of city wants a bar to be open until 4 am. Secondly, the last thing you want is drunks getting on the road near rush hour. This has nothing to do with religion and all that nonsense. It has everything to do with the "Only bad things happen when you leave a place open until 4 am that serves alcohol".

Well, Cliffy, in the pure interests of law enforcement, we should not open the bars at all. Like every other public policy decision, local officials should be able to make decisions based on criteria they establish. Alcohol policies do affect neighborhood economics, traffic, crime, tax revenue, etc. Localities should be able to create the policies that take all of that into account. Perhaps truckstop diners should not serve alcohol until the wee hours; but may there is not much of a downside to having hotel bars serve later. I am not saying that every bar should serve all night; it should be regulated locally so it can be adapted to a localities needs.

Note: I am a virtual teetotaler, so this is not about me staying out and drinking late. When I was in college I was regularly a DD taking my fellow college kids to Windsor for the bar scene there. Ontario has a standard 2am closing time, but allows variances to 4am. We should just be able to make local decisions.

[motz]

Well, Cliffy, in the pure interests of law enforcement, we should not open the bars at all. Like every other public policy decision, local officials should be able to make decisions based on criteria they establish. Alcohol policies do affect neighborhood economics, traffic, crime, tax revenue, etc. Localities should be able to create the policies that take all of that into account. Perhaps truckstop diners should not serve alcohol until the wee hours; but may there is not much of a downside to having hotel bars serve later. I am not saying that every bar should serve all night; it should be regulated locally so it can be adapted to a localities needs.

Note: I am a virtual teetotaler, so this is not about me staying out and drinking late. When I was in college I was regularly a DD taking my fellow college kids to Windsor for the bar scene there. Ontario has a standard 2am closing time, but allows variances to 4am. We should just be able to make local decisions.

See, this is what everyone needs to recognize. If we allow for local municipalities to set the times for the establishments in their borders, this allows people like illwill, Danny and Cliffy to have a larger say in what their city considers last call. Some places, such as casinos which are 24/7 venues, might benefit from the added revenue of being able to serve until 4am or, hell, 24 hours a day. But it should be up to Detroit or Ferndale or Allen Park if they have the resources to enforce such a policy. The state sure as hell won't help them out.

[Cliffy]

Its more than the cities. What about when some drunk from Farmington comes to Royal Oak and then gets on 696 and is completely wasted... That is state police territory. 2 am is good enough.

[sumas]

I got off the fence. 2 am is plenty good. Back in the day, loads of bars would start servicing clients with coffee and breakfasts. The party could continue sans booze.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Its more than the cities. What about when some drunk from Farmington comes to Royal Oak and then gets on 696 and is completely wasted... That is state police territory. 2 am is good enough.

It is currently unlawful for an establishment to serve someone anytime to the point of being "completely wasted". I am for a crackdown on bars that overserve. Suspending liquor licenses in those situations will have a greater impact on DUIs than any adjustment in serving times.

[Hermod]

It is currently unlawful for an establishment to serve someone anytime to the point of being "completely wasted". I am for a crackdown on bars that overserve. Suspending liquor licenses in those situations will have a greater impact on DUIs than any adjustment in serving times.

Some people can drink a lot sitting down to little external effect, but when they try to stand up, it becomes apparent they should have been cut off several drinks back.

[motz]

Some people can drink a lot sitting down to little external effect, but when they try to stand up, it becomes apparent they should have been cut off several drinks back.

Why does everyone think that bars = drunk driving? People go to house parties all the time and end up driving drunk. People do it in their own home, or on Belle Isle. Thinking that changing a time will magically make everyone be totally wasted 24/7 is in the same vein of thinking as "If you smoke the marijuana cigarettes, you'll turn into a raving lunatic and do all the drugs!!!!!". There is no basis in reality that drunk driving will increase. Let individual city governments determine if they want to extend their bars hours.

[Honky Tonk]

Why does everyone think that bars = drunk driving? People go to house parties all the time and end up driving drunk. People do it in their own home, or on Belle Isle. Thinking that changing a time will magically make everyone be totally wasted 24/7 is in the same vein of thinking as "If you smoke the marijuana cigarettes, you'll turn into a raving lunatic and do all the drugs!!!!!". There is no basis in reality that drunk driving will increase. Let individual city governments determine if they want to extend their bars hours.

You, apparently have NEVER seen "Reefer Madness"!

[Cliffy]

Why does everyone think that bars = drunk driving? People go to house parties all the time and end up driving drunk. People do it in their own home, or on Belle Isle. Thinking that changing a time will magically make everyone be totally wasted 24/7 is in the same vein of thinking as "If you smoke the marijuana cigarettes, you'll turn into a raving lunatic and do all the drugs!!!!!". There is no basis in reality that drunk driving will increase. Let individual city governments determine if they want to extend their bars hours.

Because house parties don't tend to last until 4 am and you are within 2 hours of when the roads get busy for the adults with jobs who have to drive to work. We've become a society that caters to the lowest of the low to make a quick buck.

[motz]

Because house parties don't tend to last until 4 am and you are within 2 hours of when the roads get busy for the adults with jobs who have to drive to work. We've become a society that caters to the lowest of the low to make a quick buck.

You act like they don't share the road already. You also seem to forget that for anyone under the age of 40, many house parties last well into the night. I know the last one I attended we ended up going to bed around 4am. Mind you, that is a once in a blue moon occurance for me, but there were definitely beers being consumed until around that point. And, shocking, no buses full of orphans with their puppies being driven by nuns got hit by anyone.

This "catering to the lowest of the low" thing, is that a knock on 2nd and 3rd shift workers? Or people who don't work 9-5s? Our society has existed as if the only people who matter are those with 9-5 type jobs, and having worked retail a good chunk of my life, it sucks quite a bit. If this law causes all of the puppy-holding orphans and hard working American families to die in alcohol-related accidents, then obviously we should revisit it. But we're in desperate need of additional tax revenue and changing an antiquated law to generate more isn't a bad idea. I mean seriously, we need to knock this "Well, its always been that way so it should stay that way mentality".