State of Michigan has signed a lease for Belle Isle

[Richard]

On a side note,in the lease the city pays water and electric,their water department is being sold,so what happens if in the future the water rates quadruple who covers the difference?

Can they charge or be charged different rates for irrigation verses potable,so that would be another form of makeing a decision while not having all of the variables in hand.

Same goes with the lighting department.

[Honky Tonk]

The only logic I really disagree with or have an opinion on is the one that tells a broke dysfunctional and currently unorganized form of city government that you have ten days to become organized or give it up.

If they were capable of making that decision,they have had many years to do it already,they were unable to do so,then so what has changed now?

Today,right now,maybe it is better for the state to take over non triple net,but,come November a new mayor is elected and come January the new city council takes seat.

One could argue the city becomes a whole new ball game,would it be fair to remove the bases before giving the players a chance?

The lease and metrics are going to take 60-90 days to come into effect,winter is coming fast,how much work can be done under snow? So it would be safe to say no see able impact until next April at the very least.

The funding available for the city or state is from the same sources no matter owns it or controls it.

It still needs to have approvals from state legislation where it could be rejected,modified,held in limbo,or even delayed for a long time then you have the exact situation you have now,but worse.

Once again,my stance is simply saying at the bare minimum give the city a chance under proper leadership to make that decision.

People say it has been run down for 40 years,what is one more year?I would think at that point the answers would be clear as to the islands future and who retains the rights to its future.

I understand what you're saying, see your point, and I'm going to use YOUR argument for a rebutal. Do you think the new mayor is going to transform Belle Isle within days of taking office? It's going to @ least take the person a year to figure out cash flow, budgets, what to and what not to cut, and what's left to spend on what. Why not remove $4 mil of maintenance right out of the gate, and allow some breathing room for restructuring the City? What appeals to me is DNR, Department of Natural Resources, not Wal-Mart Department of Hyped Up Commercialism. I don't believe Tricky Dick is going to let Belle Isle fall flat on it's face to hear "I told you so". I would LOVE to see the State resurect the golf course, [[and I don't play), pour some money into the Boat Club, [[bar & restaurant?) Children's Zoo, etc. There are SO many possibilities without bastardizing the island. And yes, the idea STILL needs to have approvals from State legislation.

[Richard]

I understand what you're saying, see your point, and I'm going to use YOUR argument for a rebutal. Do you think the new mayor is going to transform Belle Isle within days of taking office? It's going to @ least take the person a year to figure out cash flow, budgets, what to and what not to cut, and what's left to spend on what. Why not remove $4 mil of maintenance right out of the gate, and allow some breathing room for restructuring the City? What appeals to me is DNR, Department of Natural Resources, not Wal-Mart Department of Hyped Up Commercialism. I don't believe Tricky Dick is going to let Belle Isle fall flat on it's face to hear "I told you so". I would LOVE to see the State resurect the golf course, [[and I don't play), pour some money into the Boat Club, [[bar & restaurant?) Children's Zoo, etc. There are SO many possibilities without bastardizing the island. And yes, the idea STILL needs to have approvals from State legislation.

I guess that is where it gets confusing,that line between discussing something and arguing,I am simply saying look at all the different options,then make a decision.

It seems as though there is only one accepted stance saying you have had it for forty years and have run it into the ground therefore there is no other option today but for the state to take care of it.

Nobody has brought into the formula of the many volunteers that have either reopened or reestablished certain draws within the island that have improved the experience for everybody in the city,state and country.

They took that step against all odds and made it work even in the midst of a dysfunctional government.

That is what the real America is about.

Imagine what they could have done with a little support?

The new mayor and city council only have to show their support behind it,they can ask for volunteers to form a coalition to oversee it and to take the reins to make it shine.

Have they not already proven that to anybody,with the aquarium,and conservatory,that it can be done,and it was done,not by any form of government but by the will and motivation of the people,not only residents of the city but also residents of the suburbs,they crossed that us verses them line and did what it took to make it happen.

Tell me that they were wrong,because if they were,it really doesn't matter who owns the island we are all screwed as a country.

They showed everybody in their own way what the results are when everybody pulls together for a common goal for the good of everybody.

4 to 6 million to run it for a year? How does anybody really know when you are given numbers by somebody that does not know taxes from one house to another.

[Hermod]

Nobody has brought into the formula of the many volunteers that have either reopened or reestablished certain draws within the island that have improved the experience for everybody in the city,state and country.

They took that step against all odds and made it work even in the midst of a dysfunctional government.

That is what the real America is about.

Imagine what they could have done with a little support?

So the volunteers couldn't help out on a DNR run island?

[Wesley Mouch]

...They took that step against all odds and made it work even in the midst of a dysfunctional government.

That is what the real America is about.

Imagine what they could have done with a little support?

The new mayor and city council only have to show their support behind it,they can ask for volunteers to form a coalition to oversee it and to take the reins to make it shine.

Have they not already proven that to anybody,with the aquarium,and conservatory,that it can be done,and it was done,not by any form of government but by the will and motivation of the people,not only residents of the city but also residents of the suburbs,they crossed that us verses them line and did what it took to make it happen.

Tell me that they were wrong,because if they were,it really doesn't matter who owns the island we are all screwed as a country.

They showed everybody in their own way what the results are when everybody pulls together for a common goal for the good of everybody.

4 to 6 million to run it for a year? How does anybody really know when you are given numbers by somebody that does not know taxes from one house to another.

I would think the volunteers are quite excited by State engagement -- and I expect the State to be open to volunteers. Do they have any experience with volunteer groups?

[corktownyuppie]

Nobody has brought into the formula of the many volunteers that have either reopened or reestablished certain draws within the island that have improved the experience for everybody in the city,state and country.

I have bought into it. The volunteerism is great. It should be noted, though, that the volunteers are overwhelmingly in favor of having the state run it.

Think about Millenium Park in Chicago or Harvard Square in Boston or Central Park in NYC. Now just imagine that these amazing places where only the people inside the city limits used them and that most people outside the city stayed far away. And then imagine that everyone universally agreed that the place was in bad need of basic improvements and services.

That is Belle Isle.

Belle Isle could be an amazing placed that drew people from all over SE Michigan, Windsor, and from everywhere -- everywhere INCLUDING Detroit.

So now ask the people from outside the city whom they have confidence in running the island? I'd say that 90-95% say the State would do a better job.

So now ask the people from inside the city. Even in the city limits, 66% say the State would do a better job.

The problem is that we haven't clarified the question. Is the goal to keep it within local control, no matter what the cost? Or is the goal to have it run like a world class attraction?

In an ideal world, those two goals would not be in conflict. But they are. And they have been for decades. And they will likely be for decades.

Let the DNR run it.

[Cliffy]

It seems that most people who volunteer for Belle Isle and other Detroit "jewels" are people that don't even live in the city. I saw all I needed to see about 10 years ago on tv during a snow storm when people in Detroit were not capable of shoveling their driveway. Their was white people from the suburbs shoveling their driveways and you saw these residents on their porch in robes thanking them and the sad thing is that these people were in their 20's-40's! I saw sickened by the laziness of some people.

[Gistok]

So the volunteers couldn't help out on a DNR run island?

Quite the contrary... I'm sure the state will welcome the different groups involved, including the friends of the Conservatory, the Aquarium, the Great Lakes Museum, and even the "Friends of Detroit Rowing" with the boat club. We tend to think that the Detroit Boat Club is dying a slow death because it looks bad on the outside....

Au contraire...
http://www.freep.com/article/2013061...Isle-Gallagher

So I would not count on the state to demo the Boat Club anytime soon. I bet that they may help out [[with their Public land lease fund) with the restoration of the exterior, and help with a future use for that diamond-in-the-rough... as is the rest of the island.

Contrary to all the nay-sayers... I vision that the state will help out all the non-profits that have been doing their best to keep the general neglect of the island from spreading any farther. One may suppose that the outstate legislators may not be very keen on making up for past negligence of the island... but I don't think they would turn a blind eye to the entreprenuers who have kept the gems on the island going...

[Richard]

So the volunteers couldn't help out on a DNR run island?

Good question,they list some volunteer guidelines here.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7...871---,00.html

But nothing seems to be related to the actual nuts and bolts aspect,mostly botanical related.

In the case of say a boat rental aspect I would think they would want to limit the deep pocket aspect of liability.

• Be a lightkeeper at Tawas Point Lighthouse!
Find out the details of this unique opportunity. 2014 application now available!

That would be interesting to do just for the experience.

On the fed level if there is a historic property on fed park property they will give it to you,owner must pay all rehab costs and allow public access for a certain amount of time per year but you can live in it forever,or until there is a gov shutdown anyways.

[Richard]

[QUOTE=corktownyuppie;405639]

I have bought into it. The volunteerism is great. It should be noted, though, that the volunteers are overwhelmingly in favor of having the state run it.

Has the state had talks with them?If they have will they speak out?
My guess would be no given the politics of it all.

Think about Millenium Park in Chicago or Harvard Square in Boston or Central Park in NYC. Now just imagine that these amazing places where only the people inside the city limits used them and that most people outside the city stayed far away. And then imagine that everyone universally agreed that the place was in bad need of basic improvements and services.

That is Belle Isle.

But they are also located in better run cities,which today Detroit is not or has been in the recent past,but is changing after the new year.

Belle Isle could be an amazing placed that drew people from all over SE Michigan, Windsor, and from everywhere -- everywhere INCLUDING Detroit.

So now ask the people from outside the city whom they have confidence in running the island? I'd say that 90-95% say the State would do a better job.

So now ask the people from inside the city. Even in the city limits, 66% say the State would do a better job.

Judging from comments online and in person 90 % of those outside of the city would rather see it bulldozed also.

The problem is that we haven't clarified the question. Is the goal to keep it within local control, no matter what the cost? Or is the goal to have it run like a world class attraction?

The state disclosed already the funding source is the same as available to the city.So referring to the punishment costs of the state if the city should disagree?

In an ideal world, those two goals would not be in conflict. But they are. And they have been for decades. And they will likely be for decades.

Let the DNR run it.

So in theory there is no reason to invest in the city because what is will all ways be because it was like that in the past.

How can anybody expect outside investors to believe in a city when the state and residents do not believe in it.

[corktownyuppie]

Judging from comments online and in person 90 % of those outside of the city would rather see it bulldozed .

I can understand where you are coming from with all of your points except this. Almost everyone I talk to, inside and outside of the city, wants to see Belle Isle shine again. Are you seeing different?

[Gannon]

So now ask the people from outside the city whom they have confidence in running the island? I'd say that 90-95% say the State would do a better job.

So now ask the people from inside the city. Even in the city limits, 66% say the State would do a better job.

The problem is that we haven't clarified the question. Is the goal to keep it within local control, no matter what the cost? Or is the goal to have it run like a world class attraction?

No, the problem is exacerbated by fake polling that you pull from deep in your nether regions.

The PROBLEM is the underlying assumption which reduces your ability to ask real and honest questions that may help increase clarity of the issue, not weak ones merely aimed at completing your fantasies and objectives.


Does past behavior dictate future events?


What you are truly asking is not who can run the park the best, but rather which of your questionees is properly conditioned to reject the status quo.



Of course Detroit has been run poorly in the past. Everyone can agree upon that. Will it always be run poorly?

The institutions created to end-run around the poor management within the city have ALL prospered. Only one had to be turned into a State Park in order to function...


...I see no reason why Belle Isle needs to be long-term leased to anyone in order to benefit from similar positives as the RiverWalk and Campus Martius.

Nobody has presented anything to show me otherwise just yet.


Good luck.


No cheers on this...

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

One of the reasons Detroit should divest itself of some of it's responsibilities [[maintenance of Belle Isle, operation of W & S Department, streetlight operations, etc) is that the city has had very little operational government for some time [[many, many years). That is how our infrastructure crumbled, schools fell apart, etc. The city doesn't even have fully computerized files! The city's bureaucracy is circa 1978. In the coming few years, even after the EM era is over, the city will essentially be rebuilding government. The new mayor and council should concentrate on doing fewer things, and doing them well and cost-effectively. Everything they can take off their plate and give to different responsible entity, the better.

[Honky Tonk]

God bless the Detroit volunteers. Without them, the City would have been in far worse shape then it is, and assets like the Belle Isle Aquarium, [[oldest aquarium in the nation), Detroit Boat Club, [[the oldest rowing club in the nation), Belle Isle deer feeding, etc., would have been lost, permanently. How long do you expect people to give unselfishly? How much should you give yearly, in addition to the taxes Detroiters already pay, to have these assets barely squeak by? @ what point should the original owners take their responsibility back? Not everyone can or wants to volunteer. Some want to enjoy their day off from work, on a clean, well run island, and not worry about finding a working bathroom.

[Richard]

The thing is that money is tight everywhere and cities and states everywhere are having to find creative ways to fund ways of life.

When the new mayor and city council are in place they have the power to remove the EM by majority vote,which is up to you and them to make that call when the time comes.

They will have a massive pile on their plate and they will,like many other cities,have to look to the private sector for help in organization.

A prime example of a local success would be in the De Cut [[its a tough name to remember how to spell) but that shows you it can be done.

The state has proposed two options for how it would be funded,with the second being the selling of bonds to fund it,but they do not believe that is necessary given currant options.

So we have a second opinion as to the feasibility of its future,they have also said that it is unlikely that the selling of the pass will create enough revenue to cover the costs anyways.So they are in the same situation as the city when it comes to funding it.

They have the same pile of funds as the city the only difference is currently the ability to bond it which would in turn need a rise in taxes to pay the bond.One more debt for the future residents of the city and state to cover when it is shown so far unnecessary.

The city will still have to cover costs of two million per month for utilities,the difference being there will be no way to recoup those costs in the event of the island reaching a breaking point.

It becomes a fixed cost or tax,you could say that okay but the residents do not have to buy the pass to enter,but yet 2 million covers more then triple of the projected pass sale revenue state wide anyways.

The Grand Prix concessions run or organized by the city alone would cover millions in operating costs.That is just one event.

Is it really wise to place it further into debt or climb out of that hole maybe a little slower but when it is done it has no debt only floating operating costs thus placing it on solid ground for future generations to enjoy also.

A little research shows an organized group called Friends of Belle Island,they can coordinate volunteers with the city to fill the needs and take some pressure off of the top in that aspect.

Habitat for Humanity builds thousands of homes every month,volunteer supported.

Home Depot as an example donates materials and volunteers for good causes combine that with a contractor and it goes a long way.

So there are many options available and the pride of saying we all did this together goes a long ways.

With a little hope and maybe even a little prayer the future users of the island will show a little more respect and pick up their trash.

Things are looked at in a different light when it is not so easily handed out.

[bailey]

I would really like to know if this is just sheer stupidity or if she is knowingly pandering to the ignorant.

Watson earned points with the crowd when she pointed out the claim by Snyder that the city would save $6 million in expenses if the city were allowed to lease Belle Isle.

“That’s not the same as money on the table,” Watson said. “No money is exchanging hands.”
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2hRV2cf2A

[motz]

I would really like to know if this is just sheer stupidity or if she is knowingly pandering to the ignorant.

If her past is any indicator, she is just that damn dumb.

[Gannon]

Sounds like the opposition has already begun.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013101...ate-park-lease


I decided to go for a lap around the island after another successful Open Mic at Union Street with Audra Kubat...at the intersection of Jefferson and the Boulevard there was no activity at all. I was the only vehicle. Might've been the only person...waiting for that light to change at 2:12 in the morning. Even the boldest Detroiter knows there are some red lights you just stop for. Ahem.

Set my cruise at its minimum...and other than one car parked on the Windsor side, had the park to myself. It was beautiful, 63 degrees with nearly no wind...enough humidity to carry the warmth. The moon played peekaboo through the clouds, and it seemed every duck and goose on the island wanted to sleep on that small lake next to the bandshell. That was funny.

There is nothing quite as transformative as a visit to Belle Isle. Only a few miles from downtown, even while SEEING the skyline...at least the RenCen...for most of the drive, it feels like you've gone up north. Blood pressure drops, anxieties melt away...or in my case tonight, twenty minutes around is just enough time to contemplate a totally beautiful evening.


This is what I fear I'll miss if the state runs this place like every other state park. Right now there are no restrictions...no posted rules easily seen from cruising cars...no gates. Nothing to get in the way of a peaceful regenerative visit to the park, on my schedule.

[[No lights on at the police station, either. Barely a peep down at the Coast Guard station.)


Then again, the entire city was like that...I had it to myself tonight...why do things have to change?! I'm not sure I visit the same island that some of you do...this place is not a dump, and has NOT gone to rot...other than the zoo, perhaps.

Surely nothing that warrants slaving it over to a state master for a generation. Nothing that decent city management cannot handle, and some seem to think they can vote it in this next go 'round.

[Gistok]

Surely nothing that warrants slaving it over to a state master for a generation.

Gannon... JoAnn Watson called. She wants her book of "Plantation Quotes" back...

[Honky Tonk]

Sounds like the opposition has already begun.

http://www.freep.com/article/2013101...ate-park-lease


I decided to go for a lap around the island after another successful Open Mic at Union Street with Audra Kubat...at the intersection of Jefferson and the Boulevard there was no activity at all. I was the only vehicle. Might've been the only person...waiting for that light to change at 2:12 in the morning. Even the boldest Detroiter knows there are some red lights you just stop for. Ahem.

Set my cruise at its minimum...and other than one car parked on the Windsor side, had the park to myself. It was beautiful, 63 degrees with nearly no wind...enough humidity to carry the warmth. The moon played peekaboo through the clouds, and it seemed every duck and goose on the island wanted to sleep on that small lake next to the bandshell. That was funny.

There is nothing quite as transformative as a visit to Belle Isle. Only a few miles from downtown, even while SEEING the skyline...at least the RenCen...for most of the drive, it feels like you've gone up north. Blood pressure drops, anxieties melt away...or in my case tonight, twenty minutes around is just enough time to contemplate a totally beautiful evening.


This is what I fear I'll miss if the state runs this place like every other state park. Right now there are no restrictions...no posted rules easily seen from cruising cars...no gates. Nothing to get in the way of a peaceful regenerative visit to the park, on my schedule.

[[No lights on at the police station, either. Barely a peep down at the Coast Guard station.)


Then again, the entire city was like that...I had it to myself tonight...why do things have to change?! I'm not sure I visit the same island that some of you do...this place is not a dump, and has NOT gone to rot...other than the zoo, perhaps.

Surely nothing that warrants slaving it over to a state master for a generation. Nothing that decent city management cannot handle, and some seem to think they can vote it in this next go 'round.

Gannon, that is the same island I know. I used to go out there @ midnight and hand feed the deer before Kwamie ate them, and sit there all night with 24. I don't want to loose any of that serenity either. I don't think it's a "dump", but besides the Zoo, there are numerous other buildings and items that could use a shot in the arm. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to drive to Belle Isle and play a round of golf, canoe, rent bikes, etc., etc., etc.? Those are the kind of improvements I'm talking about. I don't want the place transformed into a 3 Bares Waterpick, a rock concert stadium, or even Camp Dearborn, complete with Home Depot hanging baskets. I like it natural. But I also don't want to keep looking @ the rotting and spray painted structures, neglected flower beds, and locked rest rooms. And for damn sure no more concrete slabs. "Improvements" are going to be in the eye of the beholder. Are the Cricket players still there on Sunday afternoons?

[Gannon]

Gannon, that is the same island I know. I used to go out there @ midnight and hand feed the deer before Kwamie ate them, and sit there all night with 24. I don't want to loose any of that serenity either. I don't think it's a "dump", but besides the Zoo, there are numerous other buildings and items that could use a shot in the arm. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to drive to Belle Isle and play a round of golf, canoe, rent bikes, etc., etc., etc.? Those are the kind of improvements I'm talking about. I don't want the place transformed into a 3 Bares Waterpick, a rock concert stadium, or even Camp Dearborn, complete with Home Depot hanging baskets. I like it natural. But I also don't want to keep looking @ the rotting and spray painted structures, neglected flower beds, and locked rest rooms. And for damn sure no more concrete slabs. "Improvements" are going to be in the eye of the beholder. Are the Cricket players still there on Sunday afternoons?

LOL...3 Bares...the Walmart of Amusement Parks...Stoutest Midriffs Everyday, and they're not afraid to show 'em.

Yes, the Cricket players have been spotted this year!

Think about this for a moment...there are now THOUSANDS of new jobs downtown. I don't think Generous Motors or Dan Gilbert cut any deals saving any of their paychecks from City Income Tax. We've heard nothing but shortages in available rentals in Midtown...if those people sleep in the city they owe some income taxes, more if they work here. Many hundreds of properties developed during the Archer and early-Kwhyme years under tax-abatements are nearing their due dates to come back onto the rolls.

With corporate-respected leadership, which it seems Duggan will be...as much as it pains me to concede that, private investments could be courted for a conservatorship of the island not unlike Campus Martius and the RiverWalk. Screw this state park thing, I HOPE the outstate lawmakers tank this deal...it'd be pure poetry if Snydley's own west-side nerd-supporters blind-sided him on this deal.

There is NOTHING but win-win on the future Detroit books...there is no reason to off this gem to those who will STOP the traditions which go back to the very founding of the island.


Cheers! [[ready for another lap...just gotta finish this omlette)

[Gannon]

You reminded me of one of my first ethereal visits to the island...went out before sunrise for a long jog, parked on the south side of the western tip and made my way down past the soccer fields which were covered with fog.

My heart nearly stopped when I saw what appeared to be ghostly zombies migrating across the field...closer I got I finally figured them to be shaped like deer. Ghost deer?! I'd never known of the albino deer herd...and was crushed when they were forced into that pen.