Who Has The Lowest Insurance Rates For Downtown?

[DetroitPlanner]

mr. or miss Eber. don't know which and that is my fault, every person who works in the city of Detroit pays a city tax through their payroll. 3% if you live in the city, 1.5% if you don't. Please go ask all the nurses who live in Canada if they are Happy supporting the City through that deduction. My Wife lives in Grosse Pointe Park but Works in the City. To Say that her taxes don't pay for things is silly. Residence does not equal rights. I have never had children but still pay tax to support schools.

If you paid taxes then you would have known the City's tax rate is not 3/1.5 and has not been for years. Well at least we know you don't vote. Therefore you have no right to complain about anyone on City Council nor the Mayor. If you don't pay taxes and your home/business get broken into and it takes the cops hours to show up [[if at all) then you know why.

BTW Eber is a MR. Everyone who went to school in Detroit knows that from history class. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eber_Brock_Ward

[Eber Brock Ward]

why do you have to move into the realm of Name-Calling [[as in scumbag). Your post is both pompous and mean. Your self-righteousness does nothing to move the debate into the issue that insurance rates are high in the city. Please move beyond name calling and offer up a solution.

No it actually does move things forward because when people get called out on horseshit behavior it has a deterrent effect.

It's like when you're driving on the highway and the lanes narrow down and some asshole tries to bypass everyone who is merging civilly, by flying by in the lane that's about to get closed down. God bless the person [[or people, in some cases) that slow rolls it in the closing lane, that doesn't allow the assholes to pass. Or it's like someone that tries to cut in line for something.

Folks that live in the city but are registered outside of it are like those assholes mentioned above, but only worse, because what they're doing is not only a dick move, but also illegal. It's called fraud and should be prosecuted where possible.

So I stand by calling you a scumbag, if you're one of those folks [[Note that I bolded and underlined "if" again, just as I did above). People that think they're above the rules need to be brought down a notch [[or many notches).

[Pcm]

It's like when you're driving on the highway and the lanes narrow down and some asshole tries to bypass everyone who is merging civilly, by flying by in the lane that's about to get closed down. God bless the person [[or people, in some cases) that slow rolls it in the closing lane, that doesn't allow the assholes to pass. Or it's like someone that tries to cut in line for something.

Folks that live in the city but are registered outside of it are like those assholes mentioned above, but only worse, because what they're doing is not only a dick move, but also illegal.

Self righteous much?

Side note, if you're the one lining up in the lane that's yet to be closed, then you're the reason for the traffic jam.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Have you ever had to file a claim? What happens when they realize you don't live where you say? Sounds like they could deny you based on insurance fraud.

Yes, it is fraud. Rates are determined by a variety of factors, as noted above. These factors point to the likelihood that an individual will have a claim, and what that claim would be. For instance, some places [[even within the same city) have very different likelihoods of auto theft. Fraudulent insurance causes everyone else to have to pay more [[FYI, insurance companies are required to have large amounts of cash reserves and provide boatloads of data to both state and feds to prove there is logic and fairness in their rate policies). My mom works in insurance claims in New York, and she very regularly denies claims by people in NYC whose cars are registered upstate. It's fairly easy to figure out where someone actually resides if they investigate. In addition to the denied claim [[and possible, but rare, criminal charges), they will NEVER pay a low rate again. My suggestion ErikD, for your sake as well as other rate payers, is to man-up and change the address to Detroit.

PS Do you maintain that address in the burbs to avoid city income taxes, too? If you do, you are a real $#!thead. If not, why is it it okay in the one instance and not the other. Neither is a victimless crime. Other people have to pay more money because of you.

Sorry if this post seems a little beligerent, but I'm just calling a spade a spade.

[Zacha341]

Yep. As irritated as I am about the sky-high insurance rates in Detroit I don't do the fake suburban address thing. You may as well have no insurance to go that route as the fraud will be revealed if you have a claim.

On the other hand I don't do big box, big name insurance companies either [[AAA, Alstate, Statefarm etc.). Prices are too high. Right now I am with Pioneer and rate is tolerable. I've hat Citizens as well.

[rencense]

I got my insurance earlier this year [[modest 8 year old car, im in my late twenties with good driving record) I'm in a near downtown zip I got good full coverage through Geico for under 100 a month though most other quotes I got were twice that or more; Id recommend checking out Geico but definitely shop around as rates can vary significantly between companies.

[erikd]

My suggestion ErikD, for your sake as well as other rate payers, is to man-up and change the address to Detroit.

PS Do you maintain that address in the burbs to avoid city income taxes, too? If you do, you are a real $#!thead. If not, why is it it okay in the one instance and not the other. Neither is a victimless crime. Other people have to pay more money because of you.

Sorry if this post seems a little beligerent, but I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Mikeyinbrooklyn,

It seems that you misinterpreted my post. I have been a properly licensed, full city income tax paying, registered and active city voting, insurance redlined citizen of Detroit for 16 years.

I was simply looking for recommendations for insurance agents and companies that are offering better rates for city residents, not suggestions for schemes to skirt the law.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Indeed I did, ErikD. Massive apology to you. I read your post and many replies, and seem to have combined your post with Chinman's about registering in Roseville to avoid high insurance rates. He's the jerk. You were just looking for the most affordable company. I wish you good luck with that. I use GEICO, and it's not cheap, but it isn't cheap due to a few tickets, and the fact that I rely on street parking in Detroit.

[Chinman]

Scumbag and Jerk, Again I ask why do you folks result to Name-Calling? I own a C0-Op in the City which Pays taxes to the City. Why MUST I also pay MY MONEY to a For-Profit Insurance Company that bases Its Rate on Location? If I pay a higher Rate because I put my address in Detroit instead on a suburb...PLEASE tell me how that helps Detroit. I am NOT insured by the City! I am Insured by a Corporation that is ONLY about making money! So PLEASE keep calling me names!

[Chinman]

BTW...there is NO fraud since I have the RIGHT to live anywhere. If I file a Claim and say that I live in the City to Claim something and it shown that I don't live there, that is Fraud. I never Claim to the Fact that My legal Address is in the City.
I Live In the City but do not CLAIM IT as my LEGAL address. As I said...My Wife's Family Who Lived for 70 years in the University District of Detroit...Had an Address in Brighton. My Mother-in-Law was the first black women to run for office as a state legislature representative back in the late 60's. Please tell me again how she was wrong to get auto-insurance based on location?

[DetroitPlanner]

Scumbag and Jerk, Again I ask why do you folks result to Name-Calling? I own a C0-Op in the City which Pays taxes to the City. Why MUST I also pay MY MONEY to a For-Profit Insurance Company that bases Its Rate on Location? If I pay a higher Rate because I put my address in Detroit instead on a suburb...PLEASE tell me how that helps Detroit. I am NOT insured by the City! I am Insured by a Corporation that is ONLY about making money! So PLEASE keep calling me names!

If your co-op is your primary address then how can you not be hurting the City? You use its services so you should be paying the full cost and not unloading it onto the next guy. That is what makes things cost more for the person who is trying to do the right thing.

By not insuring the car where you live you are one of hundreds if not thousands who are making insurance and income taxes more expensive for the rest of the citizens who do pay their income taxes and their insurance. Just because you pay taxes through your co-op does not give you the right to be able to not pay city income taxes. Honestly, if you do use Detroit on your license, a crackdown is coming and they are going to come looking for you and you will be paying penalties, lawyers, et al.

[Eber Brock Ward]

But, but, but ... if Chinman pays *some* it's okay, right?

[[PS - I think you're a scumbag and a jerk because, well ... you are a scumbag and a jerk. Read Planner's last post and rethink your position.)

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Chinman,
Well, you are provably wrong on several points. First, you are fully able to buy insurance from a "mutual" association [[Liberty Mutual, Mutual of Omaha, etc). They are owned 100% by policy holders. Money in the coffers at the end of the year, beyond operating costs and legally required reserve, are returned to the policy holders. Joining one should alleviate your "The Man Is Stealing My Money" concerns. Note, however: mutual companies do not tend to be cheaper, lack of profit notwithstanding.

Second, when you sign up for an insurance policy, you must sign [[or e-sign if you buy online) a document including personal info, which includes address. If you state an address that is not in fact your actual primary residential address, and then you sign it, you have provided false information in a commercial transaction for purposes of paying less money. That is practically the definition of fraud, and it is a felony.

Insurance MUST have variable rates dependent on risk [[location, driving record, etc). If it does not, no one would ever want to insure those at a high risk of collecting. When you remove risk assessment from insurance, you really are just advocating other people paying your bills, not insurance.

[Zacha341]

Ummm, lots of 'gyrations' going on about what constitutes fraud. If I were going to cheat to get the lower rate by using another address I'd just do it and hope for the best and mainly hope I'd not get caught. I choose to use my Detroit address and not engage in fraud. Not fun... the only opt out I can find is to not use the big name brand insurers.

The choice towards fraud can be for many reasons -- if you choose that route, you live with it -- and take 'your' chances. But it's a bit far to debate too far what is fraud in regards to an address issue... IMO.

Especially seeing as how the big box insurers are setting the specific rules relative to what constitutes residency.

[Chinman]

This is getting to be so uncomfortable as a Discussion. Not Worth any Time. Please Talk amongst Yourselves!

[Chinman]

If you do not Bring to the Table... a bit of Information...but ONLY your Opinion...Then only YOUR Information is JUST your Opinion!

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

But it's a bit far to debate too far what is fraud in regards to an address issue... IMO.

There really isn't a debate here. Providing another person/business/organization/government with false information in order to not pay them money you would otherwise need to pay them is fraud. Whether your own moral code [[or lack thereof) finds it wrong, the law is not subjective.

Especially seeing as how the big box insurers are setting the specific rules relative to what constitutes residency.

The companies actually explicitly state that you are to put down the address where you actually physically reside. If there is more than one, you include all addresses and the approximate amount of time you reside at which.

I would like to reiterate that the vast majority of people who are honest with their insurance companies pay more money to cover the people who fraudulently register their cars in Roseville.

YOU KNOW WHAT IS A REVELATION? THAT MAYBE THE REASON WE HAVE GIGANTICALLY HUGE DEBTS, HIGH CRIME, HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT, ETC IS THAT WE HAVE A PORTION OF OUR POPULATION WHO TRY TO RATIONALIZE AND JUSTIFY WRONGDOING. HOODWINKING AN INSURER IS OKAY IF IT GETS YOU WHAT YOU WANT? IF SOMEONE BELIEVES THAT, I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD JUDGE TO BE WRONG.

[rooms222]

Chinman,

Insurance MUST have variable rates dependent on risk [[location, driving record, etc). If it does not, no one would ever want to insure those at a high risk of collecting. When you remove risk assessment from insurance, you really are just advocating other people paying your bills, not insurance.

This brings to mind Andrew Tobias' proposal for California that could work well in Michigan, especially with the large numbers of those not buying insurance- have the no-fault portion of the insurance be collected by a tax at the gas pump. This would have the advantages of making all people pay it and it would be uniform state-wide. If you bought older cars, this would be all you paid. The huge rate disparities would only be on the full coverage part of insurance, should you choose to buy it [[or have a car loan).

[old guy]

This is getting to be so uncomfortable as a Discussion. Not Worth any Time. Please Talk amongst Yourselves!

???????. If the thread has no interest to you, why are you reading it and complaining about it?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

This brings to mind Andrew Tobias' proposal for California that could work well in Michigan.

This sounds fine upfront, Rooms222, but there are mryriad problems with it. Aside from the politics of getting it passed [[no shot whatsoever; every non-urban legislator would vote against it), it is much more unfair than the current system. People who go long stretchs without accidents, who currently pay lower rates, would lose the economic benefits of being a safe driver. People who take advanced driver training, equip their with best safety technology, and park their cars in safe places would pay as much as accident-prone, irresponsible drivers. And lastly, people in suburbs and rural areas use disproportionately more gas than urbanites, and would pay vastly more per vehicle toward the "no fault fund." And that is despite the much higher rate of accidents and theft in densely populated areas.

If you wanted to do it by tax, put on a car registration tax. The tax would go up incrementally with every accident, ticket, etc you have. That way the same rules would apply to everyone, but those putting a burden on the system would pay more. If your registration tax gets high enough, they revoke it and send you a bus pass.

Don't forget that there are hidden "taxes" in life. Live in a place with high crime [[including auto crime) and a lot of accidents, and you will pay higher insurance rates. Live in Iowa and the sushi will be less fresh than in San Francisco. Live n the north, you need to budget time and money for snow removal. One of the costs of living in a city is that an automobile will generally be less convenient and more expensive than owning one elsewhere.

In the long run, you are the biggest factor in whether or not you'll have an accident. Drive safely. Keep your car in excellent running condition. Keep your car locked and valuables hidden. Park in the safest, most well lit places. Get a GPS system. Never, ever get a DUI [[when you get your license back, you will forever be a high rate payer). Do these things and you'll pay less than you otherwise would.

[Zacha341]

Yep. The I've long said that rationalization is in part what allowed broad corruption to flourish so lushly in Detroit. I'm not naive corruption elsewhere but since I live in Detroit its impact here has affected me, and top of mind.

....YOU KNOW WHAT IS A REVELATION? THAT MAYBE THE REASON WE HAVE GIGANTICALLY HUGE DEBTS, HIGH CRIME, HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT, ETC IS THAT WE HAVE A PORTION OF OUR POPULATION WHO TRY TO RATIONALIZE AND JUSTIFY WRONGDOING. HOODWINKING AN INSURER IS OKAY IF IT GETS YOU WHAT YOU WANT? IF SOMEONE BELIEVES THAT, I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD JUDGE TO BE WRONG.

[jaytheory]

I live in 48201 and the state minimum on my 10 year old car [[no tickets or accidents, ever) is 1400 a year! AAA with homeowners through them as well

[Zacha341]

Try using a broker and get out of the big name insurance agencies. I only use AAA for my towing. I have Pioneer for my car insurance near that zip code and it is still high. But not as high.

[DetroitPlanner]

You can always go to one of those places with the red lettering and the yellow background that says 'Cheap Insurance'. They are conveniently located near most Secretary of State offices.

[Honky Tonk]

You can always go to one of those places with the red lettering and the yellow background that says 'Cheap Insurance'. They are conveniently located near most Secretary of State offices.

They even have "7 Day Insurance Available" if you only need insurance for a week or so.