Welfare to Work [[FOR REAL)

[ghettopalmetto]

Professorscott, I'm not necessarily pointing fingers at you. This issue--as well as the recent House vote to cut SNAP benefits--is so incredibly frustrating and disheartening. It's a continuation of the War on the Poor, and these professional politicians are able to pit us wage-and-salary-earning slobs against each other. If people are uneducated, starving, homeless, and unable to get to where they need to go, our entire economy and society fall apart. God forbid our elected idiots do a single damned thing to put people back to work.

It's truly disgusting what our legislators spend their time doing. Of course, when it comes around to election season, these same disgusting folks will tell us how "Christian" they are. We live in a truly awful society, devoid of anything resembling dignity or shame.

[Detroitnerd]

Ghettopalmetto, have a cup of coffee, take a deep breath and reread what I wrote.

I dunno, professor. Reading your opening remarks, I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

To take seriously any talk of disincentivizing [[OMG what an ugly word) people to work in an era of outsourcing, automation, income inequality, hostility to labor, and consistent wealth transfer from the have-nots to the have-it-alls is tone deaf and kind of offensive. No matter what you meant to say, don't be surprised by brickbats and boos when you essentially open your post by saying, "There may be some truth to the 'let-them-eat-cake' thing..."

[Danny]

Just like Bible says:

"IF YOU DON'T WORK, YOU DON'T EAT!"

[Detroitnerd]

Just like Bible says:

"IF YOU DON'T WORK, YOU DON'T EAT!"

Unless you have inherited your wealth, gotten it from usury, are a trust-funder, coupon-clipper or member of the extreme upper class. Then, if you don't work, you eat whatever you like!

[Danny]

Unless you have inherited your wealth, gotten it from usury, are a trust-funder, coupon-clipper or member of the extreme upper class. Then, if you don't work, you eat whatever you like!

Eat, drink and be merry. I don't think so.

[Danny]

Professorscott, I'm not necessarily pointing fingers at you. This issue--as well as the recent House vote to cut SNAP benefits--is so incredibly frustrating and disheartening. It's a continuation of the War on the Poor, and these professional politicians are able to pit us wage-and-salary-earning slobs against each other. If people are uneducated, starving, homeless, and unable to get to where they need to go, our entire economy and society fall apart. God forbid our elected idiots do a single damned thing to put people back to work.

It's truly disgusting what our legislators spend their time doing. Of course, when it comes around to election season, these same disgusting folks will tell us how "Christian" they are. We live in a truly awful society, devoid of anything resembling dignity or shame.

That is why politicians on beloved US of A Gov't. make their decisions what principles are they standing for and how can they stand on their ethics? Even they have to sacrifice on ethic and exchange for another. Then this nation will see the causality of our American society.

[Danny]

Question first, please.

Can you explain how community service is at all like economic slavery?

Tell that to a black single mother from Flint, MI. who was on welfare that forced her to go to work to Dick Clark's American Bandstand Restaurant in Great Lakes Crossing Mall for pennies. While in the meantime her son took his uncle's gun to school and kill a little girl.

[bailey]

Professorscott, I'm not necessarily pointing fingers at you. This issue--as well as the recent House vote to cut SNAP benefits--is so incredibly frustrating and disheartening. It's a continuation of the War on the Poor, and these professional politicians are able to pit us wage-and-salary-earning slobs against each other. If people are uneducated, starving, homeless, and unable to get to where they need to go, our entire economy and society fall apart. God forbid our elected idiots do a single damned thing to put people back to work.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are upset about the GOP supported effort to cut SNAP by 13% over ten years but are just fine with the Democrat supported Senate's version that cuts 12% over the same period?

A difference of 1% and reinstating eligibility rules that have been waived the last few years is a GOP "WAR ON THE POOR!!!!!!" ?

[ghettopalmetto]

So, if I understand you correctly, you are upset about the GOP supported effort to cut SNAP by 13% over ten years but are just fine with the Democrat supported Senate's version that cuts 12% over the same period?

A difference of 1% and reinstating eligibility rules that have been waived the last few years is a "WAR ON THE POOR!!!!!!" ?

In June, the Senate passed a farm/agribusiness subsidy bill that called for $2 billion a year in cuts to SNAP [[food stamps). That was deplorable on its own. The GOP-led House said the amount of those cuts was insufficient, and went so far as to split SNAP from the farm/agribusiness subsidy bill, and double the amount of the cuts. Note that 45% of the beneficiaries of food stamps are CHILDREN.

When we hand tax cuts to the wealthiest, and make every effort to cut education, health care, and anti-poverty programs while people are still looking for work, it is indeed a War on the Poor. We could be the most corrupt ass-backward country this side of China.

I agree that there are probably too many people on welfare and food stamps and Medicaid. I agree that those programs are placing a burden on the public. The way to get people off those programs, though, is not to kick them in the face, but to enact policies that create jobs and conditions for a growth economy.

But see, our elected idiots could do these things if they wanted to do so. We know what creates jobs--this is not a secret. We know, for example, that such programs as the Works Progress Administration and Civilian Conservation Corps were wild successes. But what we have is a ruling Plantation Class who is so horribly insecure, they have to create a permanent underclass in order to ensure their reign. They are ideologically driven; pragmatism is not in their vocabulary. Despite the empirical evidence from Europe, the Plantation Class will continue to insist on cuts to programs that benefit average people, in the name of "balancing the budget". Mind you, your elected idiots in DC are getting paid $172,000 a year to engage you in this war. That's more than triple the median household income in the United States. At the end of the day, they're not going to be starving, but you will.

This is but the opening salvo...

[Goose]

This is forced indentured servitude, plain and simple.

only if you overlook the fact that no one is "forced" to accept welfare...

now if you talk about income tax, that would be forced indentured servitude...

[Danny]

Republicans don't care about the poor! They ONLY favor the rich and wealthy! Keeping their hard earned money in their bank accounts and save for a rainy day. Cutting public services to benefit the poor [[Like Food stamps! or get rid of it) will save their money.

Democrats don't care about rich people! They ONLY favor the poor and underprivileged. They want the rich to pay up and contribute. Cutting plutonomy between Gov't and corporations [[ Like Monsato members to the U.S. Department of Agriculture or keeping Wall Street out of government.) will save this nation.

Who are you siding with?

[txlady]

I don't care if you're turning big rocks into little rocks, or pebbles into sand with a hammer. The rest of us go into work for 8 hours a day, the dole recipients should be required to spend a few hours every day doing the same. Mow this field, paint this fence, pick up the trash between here and there, weed a garden, clean the house of a disabled person, something.

[Detroitnerd]

I don't care if you're turning big rocks into little rocks, or pebbles into sand with a hammer. The rest of us go into work for 8 hours a day, the dole recipients should be required to spend a few hours every day doing the same. Mow this field, paint this fence, pick up the trash between here and there, weed a garden, clean the house of a disabled person, something.

Why do you think that people who are getting checks don't do anything with their time? Do you know a lot of people who collect government transfer payments and laze around all day? Or are you showing us a prejudice so engrained you don't feel you have to defend it?

[Goose]

Why do you think that people who are getting checks don't do anything with their time? Do you know a lot of people who collect government transfer payments and laze around all day? Or are you showing us a prejudice so engrained you don't feel you have to defend it?

so your point is that most people on welfare do NOT fit the right wing tea bag stereotype of lazy government cheeze eating freeloaders...

so they should have NO problem with putting in a few hours a week community service...

[Detroitnerd]

so your point is that most people on welfare do NOT fit the right wing tea bag stereotype of lazy government cheeze eating freeloaders...

so they should have NO problem with putting in a few hours a week community service...

No, I think they should be free to do whatever they would like to do: Look for jobs, care for their children or parents, volunteer or not volunteer, whatever. Maybe take some time off and figure out what they'd really like to do.

You use some government services, don't you? What say I propose a bill to tell YOU what to do?

[jolla]

What kind of great "disincentive to work" are we talking about? The whole couple hundred bucks a month that welfare provides? According to CBPP, TANF benefits for a three-person household in Michigan amounted to $492 a month in 2011. Yeah, I think I'll just sit on my ass so I can collect a whole FIVE Benjamins a month--What a great life!

Let's say you are getting TANF for $492 a month.

You could get a job for $8 an hour for 25 hours a week. That's $800 a month before taxes [[$682.52 after taxes as per paycheckcity.com).

Hmm, $492 for doing nothing or $683 for working? And don't forget child care and transportation costs which will eat into the 'extra' $200 you could earn.

Sure, if you can find a job for $10 an hour for 40 hours a week, things are different. Now it's $492 for doing nothing or $961 for working. Yes, in these instances people will work.

[Wesley Mouch]

No, I think they should be free to do whatever they would like to do: Look for jobs, care for their children or parents, volunteer or not volunteer, whatever. Maybe take some time off and figure out what they'd really like to do.

You use some government services, don't you? What say I propose a bill to tell YOU what to do?

Wow. The intensity here is great.

The whole idea of the true libertarian is for people to stop telling each other what to do. Tell them they must conform to your or my ideas.

But to your point -- you don't need to propose a bill to tell HIM what to do. There are already a million.

Can any changes ever be made to social programs -- or is any attempt an attack? Can this even be debated? Or is it just proof of an attack. Wow. An attack. And nobody invited me.

[Zacha341]

Yes... the similarities as only going to become more apparent regarding more issues and policies going forth, local, national, and abroad.

Republicans don't care about the poor! They ONLY favor the rich and wealthy! Keeping their hard earned money in their bank accounts and save for a rainy day. Cutting public services to benefit the poor [[Like Food stamps! or get rid of it) will save their money.

Democrats don't care about rich people! They ONLY favor the poor and underprivileged. They want the rich to pay up and contribute. Cutting plutonomy between Gov't and corporations [[ Like Monsato members to the U.S. Department of Agriculture or keeping Wall Street out of government.) will save this nation.

Who are you siding with?

[Wesley Mouch]

Why do you think that people who are getting checks don't do anything with their time? Do you know a lot of people who collect government transfer payments and laze around all day? Or are you showing us a prejudice so engrained you don't feel you have to defend it?

Doesn't matter whether he's showing prejudice. He's making a reasonable suggestion. Why not address the issue instead of attacking the man because he has different ideas than you.

[Detroitnerd]

Doesn't matter whether he's showing prejudice. He's making a reasonable suggestion. Why not address the issue instead of attacking the man because he has different ideas than you.

Decisions based on prejudices are inherently unreasonable. Thank you for the response, but I'm afraid I'm due back on planet Earth right now.

[Al Publican]

If not some form of work, why not various forms of educational instruction for those receiving assistance of any kind? Start with a class on basic cooking. Also include classes on economic literacy [[aka personal money management), nutrition, and health. If only 20 percent of the attendees at such instructional classes get something out of it that impacts their lives, that's a positive step for one and all.

[coracle]

It won't work until they provide adequate public transportation for the poor to get to where they need to volunteer. Transit is the TO in Welfare to Work.

Maybe it's possible to find enough fit "workers" among the entitled to become "they" and provide the labor to build and run the adequate public transportation the poor needs to go volunteer.

[ghettopalmetto]

If not some form of work, why not various forms of educational instruction for those receiving assistance of any kind? Start with a class on basic cooking. Also include classes on economic literacy [[aka personal money management), nutrition, and health. If only 20 percent of the attendees at such instructional classes get something out of it that impacts their lives, that's a positive step for one and all.

Why do you assume all welfare recipients are stupid, unskilled, unhealthy, and terrible at balancing a checkbook?

That's just a BIT judgmental of you, isn't it? I don't recall God appointing Al Publican as His Holy Right Hand of Judgment.

Why don't we make our biggest freeloaders--the ones who collect $172,000 of our tax dollar every year--take some basic classes on economic literacy, education, nutrition, and health? Maybe then, we'd start to see something resembling civilized society.

The only crime the poor have committed is that they haven't hired a lobbyist.

[Wesley Mouch]

Decisions based on prejudices are inherently unreasonable. Thank you for the response, but I'm afraid I'm due back on planet Earth right now.

So you imagine the prejudice. Then you can safely ignore the comment. Next, criticize anyone who tries to get you back on track. Nice work.

I reread his post. It does not show prejudice. Here it is:

I don't care if you're turning big rocks into little rocks, or pebbles into sand with a hammer. The rest of us go into work for 8 hours a day, the dole recipients should be required to spend a few hours every day doing the same. Mow this field, paint this fence, pick up the trash between here and there, weed a garden, clean the house of a disabled person, something.

Where's the prejudice -- except perhaps in your mind. He just said welfare recipients should be required to spend a few hours every day working. He said absolutely nothing negative or even positive about them. He said NOTHING about them. He just stated his opinion.

To have a real debate, we must be able to discuss ideas without prejudice towards ideas you don't share.

[ghettopalmetto]

So you imagine the prejudice. Then you can safely ignore the comment. Next, criticize anyone who tries to get you back on track. Nice work.

I reread his post. It does not show prejudice. Here it is:

[/I][/COLOR]Where's the prejudice -- except perhaps in your mind. He just said welfare recipients should be required to spend a few hours every day working. He said absolutely nothing negative or even positive about them. He said NOTHING about them. He just stated his opinion.

To have a real debate, we must be able to discuss ideas without prejudice towards ideas you don't share.

Hey, you know what? That's fine. Make welfare recipients work for the money. Give them training, a steady paycheck with a living wage, job security, and associated fringe benefits. That's what welfare recipients want, anyway--a JOB.

But wait, we can't go around giving out JOBS funded by the government, because that would just be Socialism, wouldn't it?