Schostak Bros. plans $111M 16-story office building downtown Detroit office tower

**rb336** · September-18-13, 09:17 PM

for some reason it reminds me of this:

**esp1986** · September-19-13, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Is it really that much more expensive to build underground? Parking structures are expensive either way you cut it. I'm skeptical that submerging the parking underground would've really added that much more to the project.

But anyway, this will be something that the city would need to address through zoning. It's not gonna happen on its own.

Yes, it is, unfortunately. You have to excavate the whole area, THEN you have to build the same parking lot infrastructure beneath the ground. You're talking about 4-5 stories underground minimum, based on the estimates for that space.

**hortonz** · September-19-13, 08:41 AM

Now if only downtown Windsor could get the kind of private-sector investment that downtown Detroit's getting we could have two thriving downtowns five minutes away from each other.

**bailey** · September-19-13, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by hortonz

Now if only downtown Windsor could get the kind of private-sector investment that downtown Detroit's getting we could have two thriving downtowns five minutes away from each other.

..except that it's not 5 minutes when you have to run the Homeland security gestapo gauntlet! it takes HOURS and you have to show ID! the HORROR.

**Lowell** · September-19-13, 09:10 AM

From the Crain's article with the rendering:

Sean Cotton, Meridian's general counsel, said the company has signed a letter of intent for a lease of about 300,000 square feet of space in the $111-million, 16-story building under review for $27 million in tax incentives by the Detroit Brownfield Redevelopment Authority board.

Would someone please enlighten me as to who would pay for that incentive and if it is a problematic hurdle. I would imagine that with Schostak partner Robert Schostak being the Chairman of the Michigan Republican Party such matters are under control.

**rb336** · September-19-13, 10:01 AM

The way it works is tax-increment financing. a certain portion of the tax increase on the property [[the amount the improvements increase the value of the property and therefore its tax amount) is used to pay off the development cost. Ideally, there would still be a significant increase in the revenues received by the city in question.

**Spartan** · September-19-13, 10:30 AM

Floating Ivy!!!

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...oating-ivy.php

**rbdetsport** · September-19-13, 10:35 AM

Is it necessary to put a plaza in every new development or concept these days? Is it necessary to have two plazas in the same development [[the front and back of the building)? I am a planner who puts heavy emphasis on green space and pedestrian/bicycle options, but this is getting out of hand. In order to create active, urban spaces, there actually needs to be a demand. It is the reason Hart Plaza seems like a ghost town most of the year, because it is so large with not enough usable space.

And what about that streetwall.. What streetwall...... This is a horribly designed development. I am all for development occuring in a city that desperately needs it, but it needs to be done right for future developments to be successful.

**rbdetsport** · September-19-13, 10:38 AM

And I just noticed another thing.. Look at that god-awful setback along Farmer Street.. SERIOUSLY?! It is a side street.. Why the setback?? If I am imagining this correctly, there is a wider than urban setback on all sides of this building. Where the hell are the zoning codes? Why is the planning department ok with all of this?

Serious issues.

**southen** · September-19-13, 11:29 AM

i think they were smart releasing the first rendering before this one. the first one let you wonder about the rest of the design while getting you to focus on the most interesting aspects of what they are trying to do. i look at this second render and the building looks so squat and unimpressive. would i hate this elsewhere downtown? no. but that block deserves a lot more than this. sigh.

**313WX** · September-19-13, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by rbdetsport

And I just noticed another thing.. Look at that god-awful setback along Farmer Street.. SERIOUSLY?! It is a side street.. Why the setback?? If I am imagining this correctly, there is a wider than urban setback on all sides of this building. Where the hell are the zoning codes? Why is the planning department ok with all of this?

Serious issues.

Detroit isn't in a position to nitpick how something does and doesn't get built.

And even if it was, this is Detroit, not Chicago/NYC/San Francisco/Philadelphia/Boston. The planners probably don't know any better.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · September-19-13, 11:47 AM

Interestingly, if you link to the original Crain's article there is a poll. The vast majority of the respondents voted for "love it" or "like it". I voted for "like it". I see no problem with a little bit of open space that seems to be a big issue with so many.

**gthomas** · September-19-13, 11:53 AM

Why does it take four years to build a 16-story building, while other cities are building 50-90 story skyscrapers within four years? 2017...REALLY?? Same ol' Detroit, we need to be more progressive...mostly every development announced is taking forever. COBO hall redevelopment is the only progressive development happening in Detroit, still waiting on M-1 rail, Ilitch Arena development, Hudson site, Riverfront district, and several Midtown developments. Why does it take so long to build this "small" development, same goes with the Midtown "Garden Block" apartments. Four years on a five-story building, and still far from being done?

**downtownguy** · September-19-13, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Anybody else concerned the area between Campus Martius and Greektown is almost going to become "Parking Structure Row" between Compuware garage, this garage, and new Gilbert garage on Bates garage site? I suppose if the two yet to be built garages have ground floor retail it won't be that bad? Also, still curious how National Theatre fits into all this...

I'm not sure that Gilbert has said anything about replacing the Bates garage with another garage. Have you heard otherwise?

That said, I think there's something in the building code that says any new parking structures [[downtown only, maybe?) have to have retail on the ground floor. That doesn't mean it gets filled [[Book Cadillac garage, for instance).

**gthomas** · September-19-13, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

I'm not sure that Gilbert has said anything about replacing the Bates garage with another garage. Have you heard otherwise?

That said, I think there's something in the building code that says any new parking structures [[downtown only, maybe?) have to have retail on the ground floor. That doesn't mean it gets filled [[Book Cadillac garage, for instance).

Well, Gilbert stress that parking is needed downtown..even the Hudson site include more parking, despite the "Z" lot right behind it. I'm pretty sure parking will be included on his Bates site, with whatever he does there.

**mwilbert** · September-19-13, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

Yes, it is, unfortunately. You have to excavate the whole area, THEN you have to build the same parking lot infrastructure beneath the ground. You're talking about 4-5 stories underground minimum, based on the estimates for that space.

And a ventilation system that you wouldn't need aboveground.

**tkelly1986** · September-19-13, 01:50 PM

Does anyone know if Meridian have any additional employees around metro Detroit that could be consolidated in to this new building? The 600 at One Kennedy are not the only ones are they?

**Spartan** · September-19-13, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by tkelly1986

Does anyone know if Meridian have any additional employees around metro Detroit that could be consolidated in to this new building? The 600 at One Kennedy are not the only ones are they?

Not sure where they're coming from, but it says they expect to have 1,050 employees in Detroit by then. Could be from the burbs, from out of town, or completely new positions through expansion.

**rb336** · September-19-13, 02:26 PM

Meridian Health Plan has offices in Iowa and Illinois too

**313rd** · September-19-13, 02:31 PM

They have employees at 1001 Woodward.

**Gistok** · September-19-13, 03:18 PM

One other issue for building below ground parking is that you would likely need a sump pump. The water table would likely require it. I do believe that most downtown buildings with multiple level basements have some kind of such system.

**bailey** · September-19-13, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by rbdetsport

Is it necessary to put a plaza in every new development or concept these days? Is it necessary to have two plazas in the same development [[the front and back of the building)? I am a planner who puts heavy emphasis on green space and pedestrian/bicycle options, but this is getting out of hand. In order to create active, urban spaces, there actually needs to be a demand. It is the reason Hart Plaza seems like a ghost town most of the year, because it is so large with not enough usable space.

Perhaps it has something to with having the ability to have windows in the offices? I mean if it wasn't separated, you'd have nine floors of that side of the building without windows.

And what about that streetwall.. What streetwall...... This is a horribly designed development. I am all for development occuring in a city that desperately needs it, but it needs to be done right for future developments to be successful.

The "streewall " train sailed a long time ago.

**gthomas** · September-19-13, 07:42 PM

More renderings: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ax-incentives#

**southen** · September-19-13, 08:00 PM

it's just screaming for another tower above the garage. why not put a residential element there? I still can't get over the terrible use of the site.

**gthomas** · September-19-13, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by southen

it's just screaming for another tower above the garage. why not put a residential element there? I still can't get over the terrible use of the site.

I agree, maybe it will be consider on a later date? Hopefully the Bates Garage site will be a multi-use building with a residential tower above..hopefully a two-story [[City Target Store) and garage.

The eastside of downtown is in desperate need of some height and density. Greektown Casino Hotel is standing alone, surrounding by parking lots. Hopefully more residential development is in store, looking forward to that portion of the Hudson site.