If you were 22-26 yo, would you move to Detroit RIGHT NOW? Why?

[Wesley Mouch]

I'm not sure why we can't accept that one city being "better" than another is all in the eye of the beholder.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but its not all in the eye of the beholder.

There nothing wrong with rating cities, schools, employees, employers, countries, medical clinics, highways, pension plans, car insurance, or dog vaccinations.

Consumer Reports certainly fills a function -- or is everything subjective.

Its pretty obvious to me that urban Chicago is one of this country's best urban villages.

The rating that matters is that people are moving there. Doesn't mean its perfect, perfect for you, or perfect for everyone.

[dtowncitylover]

The people left are bottom tier and or scared of the big bad world outside of their comfort zone, i.e., not the movers and shakers. Good luck reversing the vacuum.

Wait, you're here in Michigan. Do you consider yourself in the bottom tier too? Or are you telling us all who choose to stay here and try to help out, stupid, lazy, and dumb from your Chicago/Bham pedestal [[which actually you've been doing)? And here we are again with this superiority complex you have.

[noise]

In this thread: people stuck in Detroit and acting like they choose to be here. Facts speak for themselves, the talent is leaving; thousands going to Cook County alone every-single-year. 56% of new Cook County residents are from Michigan. The article I posted shows that Chicago OWNS the Midwest and the coastal cities clean up the rest of the TALENT. The people left are bottom tier and or scared of the big bad world outside of their comfort zone, i.e., not the movers and shakers. Good luck reversing the vacuum.

This non-Michigander is quick to point out, yet again, that this is NOT the argument you made in your original post.

[noise]

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but its not all in the eye of the beholder.

There nothing wrong with rating cities, schools, employees, employers, countries, medical clinics, highways, pension plans, car insurance, or dog vaccinations.

Consumer Reports certainly fills a function -- or is everything subjective.

Its pretty obvious to me that urban Chicago is one of this country's best urban villages.

The rating that matters is that people are moving there. Doesn't mean its perfect, perfect for you, or perfect for everyone.

That's going to depend on the metrics used to make the rating. That's also going to depend on whether those metrics matter to everyone reading them.

In other words, it still ends up being in the eye of the beholder.

Your determination that Chicago is one of the best urban villages probably means absolutely nothing to me if your criteria doesn't matter to me.

[nain rouge]

Oh, give 48009 a break. Chicago is old news, anyway. Most of my friends are heading to Gary now, actually. They say that Detroit's challenges no longer insurmountable enough to satisfy their desires as urban saviors, and that the opportunities in Gary are wide open. I myself plan to move there.

[Gistok]

Oh, give 48009 a break. Chicago is old news, anyway. Most of my friends are heading to Gary now, actually. They say that Detroit's challenges no longer insurmountable enough to satisfy their desires as urban saviors, and that the opportunities in Gary are wide open. I myself plan to move there.

Thanks Nain... I'm on the first "20 something" mass transit system to Gary outta here... but not before I disinfect... there's a "fungus among us"...

[leapfrog]

Oh, give 48009 a break. Chicago is old news, anyway. Most of my friends are heading to Gary now, actually. They say that Detroit's challenges no longer insurmountable enough to satisfy their desires as urban saviors, and that the opportunities in Gary are wide open. I myself plan to move there.

No offense Nain, but if every person on Dyes who threatened to move actually did, the city would be empty [[well more empty than it is currently).
Enough with the juvenile threats to leave the Metro area! If you want to leave, goodbye and good luck. If you want to stay in the Metro area, welcome to the jungle.

[313WX]

No offense Nain, but if every person on Dyes who threatened to move actually did, the city would be empty [[well more empty than it is currently).
Enough with the juvenile threats to leave the Metro area! If you want to leave, goodbye and good luck. If you want to stay in the Metro area, welcome to the jungle.

Sometimes, believe or not, what we want to do may not be practical when we want to do it. That doesn't mean we don't want to do it.

[Gistok]

No offense Nain, but if every person on Dyes who threatened to move actually did, the city would be empty [[well more empty than it is currently).
Enough with the juvenile threats to leave the Metro area! If you want to leave, goodbye and good luck. If you want to stay in the Metro area, welcome to the jungle.

I don't think you caught his sarcasm.....

[mwilbert]

Wait, you're here in Michigan. Do you consider yourself in the bottom tier too? Or are you telling us all who choose to stay here and try to help out, stupid, lazy, and dumb from your Chicago/Bham pedestal [[which actually you've been doing)? And here we are again with this superiority complex you have.

The quality of posts by people identified as black, female grad students has fallen since English left town to be a mover and shaker.

[313WX]

The quality of posts by people identified as black, female grad students has fallen since English left town to be a mover and shaker.

Although I think the main reason English moved was for career reasons [[to Philadelphia), I recall her expressing quite a bit of discontentment with Detroit during the last few months she was regularly posting here.

I'm sure without question that the painfully slow pace downtown is coming back and the rapid pace the rest of the city continues to decline played a role in her decision to relocate for work.

In fact, what happened with English [[if anything) somewhat strengthens 48009's argument.

[Gistok]

Some people want more than a marriage, a mortgage, and endless hours of couch sitting as soon as they get out of college. That doesn't mean they're "swilling beers". Maybe their goals are more ambitious than pumping out as many kids as possible.

And for people who want that hurry-up-get-married-buy-a-house-get-knocked-up-I'm-almost-25-for-God's-sake lifestyle, Southeastern Michigan is already geared-up to accommodate you. The story has been [[although less-and-less so), that if you dare to think different about your life, you're not welcome. Gistok, you might as well be the head of the unwelcoming committee.

There are lots of different types of people. You seem to take an all-or-nothing approach, in that if not everyone wants to live in a sound urban neighborhood, then nobody can. Why the need to prescribe lifestyles from on-high?

Ghettopalmetto... please go back and re-read my post... you're putting words into my mouth that I never said... that's not your usual modus operandi....

[Gistok]

Although I think the main reason English moved was for career reasons [[to Philadelphia), I recall her expressing quite a bit of discontentment with Detroit during the last few months she was regularly posting here.

I'm sure without question that the painfully slow pace downtown is coming back and the rapid pace the rest of the city continues to decline played a role in her decision to relocate for work.

In fact, what happened with English [[if anything) somewhat strengthens 48009's argument.

313XY... are you confirming what 48009 is saying based on a statistical population of ONE? [[English)

[noise]

In fact, what happened with English [[if anything) somewhat strengthens 48009's argument.

Which argument? It keeps changing.

[Zacha341]

Ummm, I'm here. Black, educated, female. Though I have been only an observer of this particular thread......

The quality of posts by people identified as black, female grad students has fallen since English left town to be a mover and shaker.

[313WX]

Which argument? It keeps changing.

I think her overall argument is why young/college educated people continue to leave from Detroit to other cities.

[mwilbert]

Ummm, I'm here. Black, educated, female.

Sorry! I knew you were a black female, assumed you were educated, but I didn't know you were a grad student. [[or maybe a former one?)

Though I have been only an observer of this particular thread......

A strong indication of your good sense. I need to work on my self-control.

[noise]

I think her overall argument is why young/college educated people continue to leave from Detroit to other cities.

Except that particular demographic has been growing in Detroit.

It's also an absurd argument. That demographic almost always moves from one location to another.

[mwilbert]

I think her overall argument is why young/college educated people continue to leave from Detroit to other cities.

Except that she conflates that with the question of why young people would move to Detroit [[her original question), and doesn't seem to understand that the existence of many reasons to be in place A might not preclude someone deciding to be in place B for other reasons, nor that different people might place different weights on the same things. It would be nice to think that a black female grad student who lives in Birmingham might have a greater understanding of the diversity of the human race.

I just thought of this example that might be helpful. Let's compare two cities: Detroit and San Diego. I think it would be fair to think that most people would choose to live in San Diego rather than Detroit if they could afford it. But I can, and I would not. Not because of my affinity for Detroit [[Buffalo or Milwaukee would work too) but because I don't like it to be too sunny. Detroit has lots of nice cloudy days. I like to spend time outside, and I don't want to do that in San Diego. Even though I think San Diego has many fine qualities, for me they don't outweigh the excessive sun. You can't just assume everyone finds the same things attractive or repellant.

[Gistok]

Noise and Mwilbert... will you please stop letting reality get in the way of this thread!! Oh Lord... I'm starting to sound like Honky Tonk!!

Zacha341, you must be an anomaly, someone 48009 refuses to acknowledge!!

[313WX]

Except that particular demographic has been growing in Detroit.

That may be true, but is it at nearly the same pace as other cities?

In the 2010 census, much of downtown still LOST population. Meanwhile, the Chicago Loop and surrounding areas gained roughly 50,000 people [[36% growth). They're also not being engulfed by rapidly declining neighborhoods in Chicago, as the entire city's population has been relatively stable since 1990.

It's also an absurd argument. That demographic almost always moves from one location to another.

The demographic may initially move from one locations to another, but at a certain point, they will decide to settle down. They're more likely to settle down in whatever locations they're living in than to return home, if past trends are an indicator. How many people from Michigan do you think return back from Chicago to live in the suburbs when they have perfectly good suburbs/neighborhoods in Chicago?

[313WX]

Except that she conflates that with the question of why young people would move to Detroit [[her original question), and doesn't seem to understand that the existence of many reasons to be in place A might not preclude someone deciding to be in place B for other reasons, nor that different people might place different weights on the same things. It would be nice to think that a black female grad student who lives in Birmingham might have a greater understanding of the diversity of the human race.

I just thought of this example that might be helpful. Let's compare two cities: Detroit and San Diego. I think it would be fair to think that most people would choose to live in San Diego rather than Detroit if they could afford it. But I can, and I would not. Not because of my affinity for Detroit [[Buffalo or Milwaukee would work too) but because I don't like it to be too sunny. Detroit has lots of nice cloudy days. I like to spend time outside, and I don't want to do that in San Diego. Even though I think San Diego has many fine qualities, for me they don't outweigh the excessive sun. You can't just assume everyone finds the same things attractive or repellant.

An individual's personal preferences is not really relevant to the argument.

The statistics indisputably show that more people are leaving Detroit/Michigan than coming.

Some are moving to Florida, Arizona or Nevada for retirement. Some are moving to economically healthier states such as Texas or Georgia for employment.

But statistically, most of the young/educated people from Detroit/Michigan are moving to cities such as Philadelphia, Minneapolis or Chicago. What do you think is so attractive about these cities to folks in this demographic that they couldn't find in Detroit?

[mwilbert]

An individual's personal preferences is not really relevant to the argument.

Of course they are. People make decisions based on their personal preferences, including their decisions about where to live. It is precisely because people's personal preferences aren't the same that they don't all want to live in the same places. It is precisely because there are a lot of similarities between personal preferences that some places are more attractive to most people than others.

The big question is how big is the variation in preferences. People like 48009 seem to not to think it is very large. My belief is that it is quite substantial--look at the variation in preferences for urban vs suburban vs exurban living amongst the people just on this forum. People value different things.

[mwilbert]

But statistically, most of the young/educated people from Detroit/Michigan are moving to cities such as Philadelphia, Minneapolis or Chicago. What do you think is so attractive about these cities to folks in this demographic that they couldn't find in Detroit?

My guess is that for a lot of them it is employment opportunities and a less damaged urban core.

[noise]

That may be true, but is it at nearly the same pace as other cities?

I would hope not. The city has tremendous problems. Nobody will ever deny that [[unless they're running for office).

That, however, has nothing to do with the original argument.