If you were 22-26 yo, would you move to Detroit RIGHT NOW? Why?

[48009]

48009.... you are absolutely full of complete and utter BULLSHIT... there are not HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of 20 something Michiganians that moved away to Chicagoland... I DARE you to show statistics to back up that BS...

From 2005-2009 the outmigration OF ALL AGES from Michigan to Illinois was 11,150 per the US Census. Nice try though.

I thought you were college educated? Don't college educated people use facts and statistics, rather than hyperbole??

Cite your source.

[Umbound]

I am in my last semester here at UM and in between 22-26 year old range. Right now I plan on leaving, only because I spent my whole life here. Yes Downtown and other neighborhoods are on the rise, but it does not appeal to me like a Chi, Miami or NY would. Yes it is ridiculously cheap here, but that cannot be my only factor. Other factors I look for I have found in other cities I've visited, so me would I move right now? No. I have friends who have and like it, I've never heard a head over heels type of reaction like I've read in articles though.

[Huggybear]

This paean to Chicago, penned for a Chicago publication, reads like something that should appear in one of those tourist magazines that litter hotel end tables. Except that it talks about segregation [[religious, ethnic and racial) almost in glowing terms.

Frankly, this article did not disabuse me of the idea that Chicago extinguished its diversity - and indeed, its cultural identity - by trying to be the popular kid. It has a decent economy, its downtown is a safe place for white people to live in, it's "not Detroit," and it's a destination for the youth diaspora of the middle west. So why isn't it some kind of slam dunk?

The simple answer, I think, is that Chicago is mediocre in the true sense of the word. It's not bad or shoddy or ugly. In fact, it looks nice and functions well. But it's not the worst or best at anything. It doesn't have the dominance of New York or the plastic hotties of Los Angeles. Chicago's post-Al-Capone history is uneventful. People outside of Chicago don't really talk about it. It's a safe place to go. It is a good place to live in a gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat. Until you move to Schaumberg or Palatine. In which case you have met your Waterloo.

Despite being smaller and taking a few punches in the gut, Detroit hits far above its weight in history and culture. Its fortunes have risen and fallen faster than anywhere on earth. It popularized the automobile and by doing so, it effectively terraformed the entire developed world - after it built the hardware to wipe out the bag guys. Detroit is a place people do talk about - in mythical terms: it is Henry Ford, Robocop, the Arsenal of Democracy, the riots, Eminem and the Virgin Suicides. Magazines have "Detroit" ad offices. They don't have "Chicago" offices; they have "Midwest" ones. Detroit hits far above its weight in the minds of Americans, whether morality play, gritty human drama, or awesome wasteland.* Mythology breeds a common cultural identity, and that breeds attachment and fierce loyalty.

The lack of this social-historic heft is precisely why people from Chicago are insecure - many being from West Michigan, they think that because they are prosperous, they must be blessed, and if they are among the elect, g-ddammit, why isn't their city the center of admiration?

When it comes down to it, telling people who live in Detroit by choice that they should like Chicago is a silly exercise. Detroit's appeal lies in its challenge and inspiration to do big things. If that set wanted to live in Chicago and blend into a pool of people of similar socioeconomic station, it would have done so.

HB

* And Detroit hits far above its weight with cultural institutions like the DIA that make you wonder why a city four times the size has a museum only marginally better. Perhaps most embarassingly, Chicago is only marginally better than Detroit in violent crimes - except Chicago has a fully functional government and Detroit has not had one for years!

[48009]

HB,

People around Detroit are quick to bring up culture. Most of the culture is several decades removed. It's great that the factories helped win WWII but that was 70 years ago. Motown was off to LA 40 years ago. Picking up on the trend? Detroit is vacant of any current culture. That stuff is for history books and seniors to reminisce, the youth don't care or think about it.

PS:
The writer is from Lansing, Michigan.

[noise]

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Ma...f-the-Midwest/

Maybe you should hop on a plane to ORD and ask some of the hundreds of thousands of Michigan college graduates why they moved there? Then when you get back you should stop in Corktown and ask the 74 dudes there why they didn't? Let us know.

I would prefer it if the illiterate black female grad student would try to back up her "arguments".

[rb336]

HB, a very cogent description of the Chicago psyche. Their ads "second to none" underscore that insecurity in a city that was, for a long time, the second largest city in the country.

New York stands for something. LA stands for something. New Orleans stands for something. Ask someone what they think of when you say those cities' names and you will get a reaction. NY you get theatre, subways, energy on the positive side, gangs, rudeness, greed and crowded on the negative. LA - movies, sunshine and gangs, phoniness, etc. Detroit is like those cities. People will think of the headlines, of course, but beyond that you get industry, music, etc.

Chicago? it's pretty much a shrug except for Capone. Architecture geeks may say that, but they will also recognize that in Detroit and NY. Music?? it's a cypher. some might give it blues, but that was only because it was the biggest city near the Mississippi. Beyond Capone and any current headlines, you pretty much get a shrug. Especially if you go beyond the midwest, even more if you go abroad.

[Gistok]

Cite your source.

Thanks Noise...

My source is not Hyperbole... it's the US Census Statistics...

Check the 2005-2009 listing... of Geographical Mobility/Migration...

http://www.census.gov/hhes/migration...-to-state.html

[noise]

*Reliable Mass Transit - Agreed. But it's slow compared to my car in Detroit.
*Walkability/Critical Mass - Really?
*Abundance of National Retailers - I can get to our national retailers in the same time it takes to commute through Chicago.
*Premier Downtown Shopping - It will take me just as long to get to our premier shopping.
*Functional City Government - Haha!
*Women's Basketball Team - Really?
*Navy Pier - Detroit has "attractions", as well. Residents and tourists differ.
*Legit State Fair - do 22-26 year olds attend these?

[noise]

Maybe the real problem is that if you're stuck having to relocate to a single city, you made a poor educational / career move. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

For the record, having lived in a number of US cities, I'd take Milwaukee over Chicago any day of the week. Maybe not everyone is looking for the same thing. About half of my born-and-raised in Chicago friends have moved away from Chicago.

[hortonz]

And if James Howard Kunstler, one of the few contemporary American commentators with a firm grasp of reality, is right then Chicago will suffer an even worse fate in the next century than Detroit has over the last sixty years. The city's physical infrastructure make it uniquely unsuited to meet the demands of the future, when climate change, energy scarcity and a lack of investment capital will cause global economic activity to contract to a level not seen since dawn of the Industrial Revolution.

[313WX]

Maybe the real problem is that if you're stuck having to relocate to a single city, you made a poor educational / career move. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

For the record, having lived in a number of US cities, I'd take Milwaukee over Chicago any day of the week. Maybe not everyone is looking for the same thing. About half of my born-and-raised in Chicago friends have moved away from Chicago.

Nothing's wrong with that. Some people simply prefer having big city amenities without actually living the big city lifestyle. In that respect, Detroit Future City will be perfect for these type of people [[which will resemble a large Atlanta/Portland hybrid).

Different strokes for different folks.

[313WX]

At the end of the day, Chicago is still a better city than Detroit. Chicago is also more of a household name than Detroit, for all of its imperfections.

For example, you never hear people say "I'm going to visit Illinois" when visiting the Chicago area, yet you always hear people say "I'm going to visit Michigan" when visiting the Detroit area.

That said, none of the above means Detroit can't be nice in its own way.

[wolverine]

And if James Howard Kunstler, one of the few contemporary American commentators with a firm grasp of reality, is right then Chicago will suffer an even worse fate in the next century than Detroit has over the last sixty years. The city's physical infrastructure make it uniquely unsuited to meet the demands of the future, when climate change, energy scarcity and a lack of investment capital will cause global economic activity to contract to a level not seen since dawn of the Industrial Revolution.

Except Chicago has the resources to adapt and is. Government cooperation and the mayor that gets whatever he wants. Bicycle expressways we get them, incentives for green roofs and strict energy requirements on buildings, policies that discourage driving, installation of energy efficient utilities and infrastructure city wide. Forced shut down of coal power plants. Chicago is experiencing billions of dollars of investment into modernizing our infrastructure.

Detroit has barely scraped the surface. There are no policies in effect now that prepare the city for a future of climate change or rising energy costs, and the city is spatially hardwired for long commutes.

If this is a race to you, Chicago should be of no concern, because other Midwest cities are part of the game and have made quite the jump start in urban development and infrastructure investment.

[48009]

HB, a very cogent description of the Chicago psyche. Their ads "second to none" underscore that insecurity in a city that was, for a long time, the second largest city in the country.

New York stands for something. LA stands for something. New Orleans stands for something. Ask someone what they think of when you say those cities' names and you will get a reaction. NY you get theatre, subways, energy on the positive side, gangs, rudeness, greed and crowded on the negative. LA - movies, sunshine and gangs, phoniness, etc. Detroit is like those cities. People will think of the headlines, of course, but beyond that you get industry, music, etc.

Chicago? it's pretty much a shrug except for Capone. Architecture geeks may say that, but they will also recognize that in Detroit and NY. Music?? it's a cypher. some might give it blues, but that was only because it was the biggest city near the Mississippi. Beyond Capone and any current headlines, you pretty much get a shrug. Especially if you go beyond the midwest, even more if you go abroad.

Chicago "stands for" stealing smart college grads from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri & Minnesota.

[48009]

Maybe the real problem is that if you're stuck having to relocate to a single city, you made a poor educational / career move. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

For the record, having lived in a number of US cities, I'd take Milwaukee over Chicago any day of the week. Maybe not everyone is looking for the same thing. About half of my born-and-raised in Chicago friends have moved away from Chicago.

Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Indianapolis & Pittsburgh are all more attractive cities than current Detroit.

[wolverine]

My thought is people will go where the jobs are, where the city compensates them with great services for paying taxes, where it's safe and where urban schools are improving. No city is ever perfect in places. But what so many folks here don't understand is that a college educated individual is privileged enough to receive a pass card from urban problems. Few new urban professionals could really care about the murder rates and abandonment if they rarely see it.

If a city can offer at least several square contiguous miles with hardly any abandonment, safe neighborhoods and lots or restaurants and shops then in my opinion it's a city to move to.

[Gistok]

Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Indianapolis & Pittsburgh are all more attractive cities than current Detroit.

So are Denver, San Antonio, Columbus, Nashville, and Charlotte.... but you've been preaching to the choir here... what is the purpose of your peurile trivia?? Probably just attention seeking... time to move on...

[Pickford-Bentler]

I would prefer it if the illiterate black female grad student would try to back up her "arguments".

It would also be nice to see her become friends with colons, semi-colons and commas.

[noise]

Nothing's wrong with that. Some people simply prefer having big city amenities without actually living the big city lifestyle. In that respect, Detroit Future City will be perfect for these type of people [[which will resemble a large Atlanta/Portland hybrid).

Different strokes for different folks.

At this stage in my life, I'd probably be happy sequestered away in the UP.

[noise]

At the end of the day, Chicago is still a better city than Detroit. Chicago is also more of a household name than Detroit, for all of its imperfections.

For example, you never hear people say "I'm going to visit Illinois" when visiting the Chicago area, yet you always hear people say "I'm going to visit Michigan" when visiting the Detroit area.

That said, none of the above means Detroit can't be nice in its own way.

I'm not sure why we can't accept that one city being "better" than another is all in the eye of the beholder.

[noise]

Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Indianapolis & Pittsburgh are all more attractive cities than current Detroit.

And all more attractive than Chicago, in my book.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that your entire argument is unclear, imprecise, and remarkably faulty.

[Eber Brock Ward]

My thought is people will go where the jobs are, where the city compensates them with great services for paying taxes, where it's safe and where urban schools are improving. No city is ever perfect in places. But what so many folks here don't understand is that a college educated individual is privileged enough to receive a pass card from urban problems. Few new urban professionals could really care about the murder rates and abandonment if they rarely see it.

If a city can offer at least several square contiguous miles with hardly any abandonment, safe neighborhoods and lots or restaurants and shops then in my opinion it's a city to move to.

Yeah, I think people are conflating what "young professionals" want with what your typical person wants. In their minds and generally speaking, if a young professional never leaves the north side or the Loop in Chicago, or never leaves the greater Downtown area in Detroit, what do they care about what happens on the South/West Side in Chicago, or in some of the outer neighborhoods in Detroit?

[motz]

Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Indianapolis & Pittsburgh are all more attractive cities than current Detroit.

Do those graduates back their arguments up with facts? I'm just curious if all of those hundreds of thousands of graduates that have moved out of state know how to properly back up an argument, unlike their Birmingham based counterparts.

And I would like to say, just because you're a 20-something black female doesn't mean you can't be racist, doesn't mean you can't have the same attitude as a 60-something bitter suburbanite with a grudge, etc.

[48009]

In this thread: people stuck in Detroit and acting like they choose to be here. Facts speak for themselves, the talent is leaving; thousands going to Cook County alone every-single-year. 56% of new Cook County residents are from Michigan. The article I posted shows that Chicago OWNS the Midwest and the coastal cities clean up the rest of the TALENT. The people left are bottom tier and or scared of the big bad world outside of their comfort zone, i.e., not the movers and shakers. Good luck reversing the vacuum.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Fixed your post for you! [[You're welcome)