Cheney kept CIA program from Congress, source says

**Gannon** · July-13-09, 11:47 PM

And...please never forget General Smedley Butler...back in the thirties.

There is certainly precedent for the rich and influencial in this nation to attempt a fascist military coup at the national level...perhaps the Paraguayan option is merely in case they fail again?!

**Gannon** · July-13-09, 11:52 PM

What are you talking about, Cc? Panetta?

Another of the revolving door personalities who never seem to leave the proximity of the seat of power...over the past forty or so years!

ccbatson · July-13-09, 11:55 PM

Yes, Panetta. Who is sitting in which seat for 40 years now? And what happened 41+ years ago?

**Gannon** · July-13-09, 11:56 PM

He's even been Republican for the first half of his life...although directly opposite the words attributed to Churchill about young liberals with hearts and old conservatives with brains.

ccbatson · July-13-09, 11:58 PM

Anyone that goes from right to left is either very corrupt, or very stupid, or both.

But what are you referring to as the seat of power?

**Gannon** · July-14-09, 12:13 AM

The seat of power I was referring to was the POTUS...

...and dear, old Panetta has been around DC since the late sixties.

Had his fingers in far too many pies along the way to now.

Don't trust him one whit. Head of the CIA, what else is there to say?!

**Gannon** · July-14-09, 12:15 AM

Do you truly think what you just said?

Anyone who joins any political party is such in my estimation.

Corrupt, stupid...or both. At least they will be both in a short time in it.

ccbatson · July-14-09, 12:16 AM

WHy didn't you say so in the first place?

**Gannon** · July-14-09, 12:26 AM

If you're referring to the 'seat of power' comment, I believed it to be ubiquitous at first...unless your questioning of it is mere obfuscation of the main points of the dialogue.

The cast of characters who've flowed through Washington DC from the Nixon administration onwards is amazing indeed...I've focussed mainly on the self-described and titled Neo-Cons, but after reading Panetta's bio [[and remembering my shear dread with the Clinton administration) realize it is epidemic on both sides...and adds to my on-going conclusion that there is really not a c-hair's difference between anyone in politics.

At least not anyone we've heard of from the mainstream conservative press masquerading as a liberal bulkhead.

It seems that anyone with substance is sidelined, ridiculed, or killed...or otherwise rendered inert somehow.

**Gistok** · July-14-09, 02:20 AM

While I don't want to see the Justice Department detracting Obama from the full plate he's got right now... I remember the words of one of the retired generals on the PBS special about torture at Guantanamo, Abu Graib and Bogram... that there are certain folks high up in the Bush administration that had better be very careful which overseas countries they visit in the future.

War crimes don't necessarily have to be inititiated from the USA [[Justice Department).

**oladub** · July-14-09, 09:05 AM

I keep hoping that President Obama' Justice Department will overturn Bush's Orwellian 'anti-terrorism' legislation and prosecute bankers and other Bush cronies within his administration who violated torture laws. Here is a Russia Today interview with [[still) Obama supporter Naomi Wolf. "Barack Obamaâ€™s indefinite detention claim, coupled with the enemy combatant right he inherited, enables him to lock up any US citizen forever without a trial." In short, Obama is not delivering on his promise to restore the right of law.

http://tinyurl.com/nerxkt

Naomi Wolf

**Det_ard** · July-14-09, 11:10 AM

What the overlords have done that's so clever, is that they've put a man in the WH who appears to be the antithesis of Bush and his criminal lackies, but has actually kept in place and advanced most of the Bush administration's illegal programs. The wars continue, the predator drone assasinations continue, military commissions continue, Americans' conversations and communications continue to be monitored, Gitmo will continue in a new place, and that's just some of what we know publically.

The incredibly clever part of this is that by getting Obama elected they've neutralized most of the opposition that hounded Bush for these policies. The opposition has been co-opted and they have no idea that it's even happened. There's such support for Obama that he can continue these policies without much dissent for four or eight more years. Wake up America, the wolf is in the henhouse.

**Gannon** · July-14-09, 12:17 PM

I guess that's what keeps them the OVERlords, now, doesn't it?!

Our waking slumber...adoration of moving-video recreations of reality, and now game simulations...chemically altered to suit personal taste.

It all makes perfect sense.

It's in your WATER, people. Glad I only drink distilled.

**gibran** · July-14-09, 02:15 PM

when Ford pardoned Nixon it was at his political expense...Obama is weighing out things..no one could even imagine what he uncovered and how it effects our security...in today's MSNBC it was reported that the CIA hit squads were modeled after the Israeli's...it will not shock anyone that many of the contractors that trained our prison folks were contractors [[some from Israel)...this becomes interesting the connections that have arisen..and for the most part Obama is most likely trying to balance things out not to em-brass our allies and our country anymore than Bush and the neocons did.

Why this is relevant...why do you think people are so afraid to talk about connecting the dots between players internationally? Why is there a tacit understanding between countries secret security organizations? a lot can be squeezed into the premise of national security...and it would be hard to argue other wise...

we should fear the shadows of secret governmental deals more so than the open possibility of conventional warfare at this point.

**Detroitej72** · July-14-09, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

What the overlords have done that's so clever, is that they've put a man in the WH who appears to be the antithesis of Bush and his criminal lackies........

The incredibly clever part of this is that by getting Obama elected they've neutralized most of the opposition that hounded Bush for these policies. The opposition has been co-opted and they have no idea that it's even happened. There's such support for Obama that he can continue these policies without much dissent for four or eight more years. Wake up America, the wolf is in the henhouse.

If Obama's election was due to the shadow government, it was a genius move on their part. As you've stated, they have effectively silenced the opposition in such a brilliant, public manner, without anyone noticing. If true, then this country is in even worse shape than we realize.

ccbatson · July-14-09, 06:51 PM

It is is big trouble given that a radical socialist, as bad, or worse than FDR is in the process of transforming the nation into a Marxist system.

**Detroitej72** · July-14-09, 06:56 PM

Your not paying attention. This could very well be a case of the shadow government, of which I am pretty sure exists, putting Obama into power to distract the populace from their evil, sinister motives.

ccbatson · July-14-09, 06:59 PM

Existents exist.....the evil sinister motives are in evidence now...and they are radical Marxist.

**Detroitej72** · July-14-09, 07:02 PM

More likely a radical oligarchy that controls and manipulates world events.

ccbatson · July-14-09, 07:03 PM

Not likely, or probable, wake up and look at what is going on around you...it is what it is [[and what it appears to be).

**Detroitej72** · July-14-09, 07:07 PM

Just keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. I prefer not to let my blind faith in political parties keep me from seeing the forest for the trees.

ccbatson · July-14-09, 07:08 PM

Faith in political parties? Demanding individual rights and objecting to their confiscation has nothing to do with "party"

**East Detroit** · July-14-09, 08:42 PM

Automatically being against anyone on the left and automatically defending anyone on the right has everything to do with party and nothing to do with country or rights.

ccbatson · July-15-09, 02:24 PM

If that were true...perhaps. I oppose big government and limiting individual liberty no matter which political party is guilty of it.

**mjs** · July-15-09, 05:25 PM

You support Bush more than anyone on the forum. All the man did during his second term was initiate wars that increased spending add new departments and military growth that wouldn't have stopped 9/11 and pushed for laws and secret actions that reduced individual rights like the right to not be slammed into things or the right to see a Judge. The man didn't exactly get enhanced interrogation from following the actions of past Presidents.

How did Bush reduce spending or strengthen anybody's individual rights? Your twisting of terms is going to be interesting to say the least.