This is Exactly Why I Give Up on Michissip...I Mean Michigan

[48009]

In my view, this is the legitimate issue here. If they are billing for people who have been inappropriately classified, then Orr's office should insist that either the classifications or the people in them be changed. This is something that comes up all the time, and both parties should know how to deal with it.

Inappropriate classifications equal higher margins for the consulting companies. Just like Jones days will have cheap first and second yr associates do all of the legwork on the bankruptcy while the $1000/hr partners are playing golf in Palm Beach. Oh and don't forgot these consultants ask for more money due to the crisis nature of the work and resources are needed immediately. Entire bankruptcy is a con job.

[michimoby]

You think this kid is in his position due to drive? HA! More than likely some nepotism got him his job and cronyism & borderline fraud got his employer this bloated contract. Hardly things to admire.

Now, no opportunity is without some sort of biased influence. But to suggest that this guy got his job purely through cronyism sounds like...

Well, it sounds like he works for the City of Detroit.

[48009]

Now, no opportunity is without some sort of biased influence. But to suggest that this guy got his job purely through cronyism sounds like...

Well, it sounds like he works for the City of Detroit.

When a 22 yo Spartan with a BA in finance is making more in Detroit than an Ivy grad in a NYC or LA = something is fishy. The "CFA candidate" line in his bio is comical. That's not a credential, it basically says he studies a lot for a test in his free time.

[noise]

When a 22 yo Spartan with a BA in finance is making more in Detroit than an Ivy grad in a NYC or LA = something is fishy. The "CFA candidate" line in his bio is comical. That's not a credential, it basically says he studies a lot for a test in his free time.

I may have missed it, but has this particular individual's salary been announced? All I've seen is the rate his employer charges for his services, which is not at all what he makes. Based on that, it's impossible to say he's making more than "an Ivy grad in a NYC or LA"...which in and of itself is a flawed argument.

[Honky Tonk]

When a 22 yo Spartan with a BA in finance is making more in Detroit than an Ivy grad in a NYC or LA = something is fishy. The "CFA candidate" line in his bio is comical. That's not a credential, it basically says he studies a lot for a test in his free time.

Are NYC or LA facing the biggest municipal bankruptcy in history? No? Well, I bet if they were, you'd see the aforementioned "kid" charging the same rates, looking @ their books too!

[ct_alum]

The only question that needs to be asked is: Who will Mr. Orr go back to work for when his time is up? 'Nuff said.

[Honky Tonk]

The only question that needs to be asked is: Who will Mr. Orr go back to work for when his time is up? 'Nuff said.

No, not nearly " 'Nuff" said. Read about people in politics, even those appointed by the President to oversee the Country's financials. They were all successful in the private sector, which is what got them assigned in the first place. Same in the private sector. Alan Mulaly @ Ford comes to mind. No one places ads for these kind of people for these kinds of positions on Monster.com. You have to prove your net worth, it travels by word of mouth, and you or your company get chosen for the task.

[noise]

The only question that needs to be asked is: Who will Mr. Orr go back to work for when his time is up? 'Nuff said.

I'm not sure saying meaningless words is enough.

[Wesley Mouch]

I may have missed it, but has this particular individual's salary been announced? All I've seen is the rate his employer charges for his services, which is not at all what he makes. Based on that, it's impossible to say he's making more than "an Ivy grad in a NYC or LA"...which in and of itself is a flawed argument.

Facts only cloud the issue. The individual is irrelevant. His only value is as a proof that the system is corrupt. Anyone who goes to work for the enemy is an enemy. This has nothing to do with his actual wages.

[ct_alum]

Don't tell me to "read about people in politics"- I'm not talking about Orr's qualifications. The point was that nobody should be surprised by the billing rates and practices of his "former" employer. The fix was in from day one, beginning with Snyder asking him when he could come on board before the "emergency" was even declared. Crony capitalism at its best, aided by a duplicitous Governor.

[Honky Tonk]

Don't tell me to "read about people in politics"- I'm not talking about Orr's qualifications. The point was that nobody should be surprised by the billing rates and practices of his "former" employer. The fix was in from day one, beginning with Snyder asking him when he could come on board before the "emergency" was even declared. Crony capitalism at its best, aided by a duplicitous Governor.

I think I just did. You must be talking about the "Crony capitalism" that got Detroit in the position it's in, in the first place. But as I've posted before, everyone's entitled to their opinions.

[noise]

Don't tell me to "read about people in politics"- I'm not talking about Orr's qualifications. The point was that nobody should be surprised by the billing rates and practices of his "former" employer. The fix was in from day one, beginning with Snyder asking him when he could come on board before the "emergency" was even declared. Crony capitalism at its best, aided by a duplicitous Governor.

It would be better to declare an "emergency" and then scramble to find a person to handle it?

I think having your ducks in a row is commendable.

[Wesley Mouch]

Don't tell me to "read about people in politics"- I'm not talking about Orr's qualifications. The point was that nobody should be surprised by the billing rates and practices of his "former" employer. The fix was in from day one, beginning with Snyder asking him when he could come on board before the "emergency" was even declared. Crony capitalism at its best, aided by a duplicitous Governor.

I'm pro-business. And crony capitalism is a major concern. This bankruptcy has nothing to do with crony capitalism. Don't cry wolf. The wolf was us.

[48009]

Are NYC or LA facing the biggest municipal bankruptcy in history? No? Well, I bet if they were, you'd see the aforementioned "kid" charging the same rates, looking @ their books too!

The facts are that they're billing $275/hr for a state school grad [[mid tier at best in the grand scheme of things), with less than a year experience, in a cheap market like Detroit -- which is higher than or equal to a bill rate an Ivy grad, with more experience, would get in top-tier COL markets like NYC or SF. [[What he actually takes home is irrelevant.) Calling him a "senior associate" is completely unethical.

[48009]

I think I just did. You must be talking about the "Crony capitalism" that got Detroit in the position it's in, in the first place. But as I've posted before, everyone's entitled to their opinions.

I don't disagree with you that a lot of shady dealings got Detroit into this mess, but that doesn't excuse the unethical behavior continuing through this bankruptcy.

[noise]

The facts are that they're billing $275/hr for a state school grad [[mid tier at best in the grand scheme of things), with less than a year experience, in a cheap market like Detroit -- which is higher than or equal to a bill rate an Ivy grad, with more experience, would get in top-tier COL markets like NYC or SF. [[What he actually takes home is irrelevant.) Calling him a "senior associate" is completely unethical.

It sounds like you know A LOT about this particular individual that has not been reported. You must know him personally. Please don't hold back and provide us with the facts.

[48009]

It sounds like you know A LOT about this particular individual that has not been reported. You must know him personally. Please don't hold back and provide us with the facts.

I know the facts as reported by the media:

- 22 years old
- graduated from mid-tier business school last May
- CFA level two "candidate," which means absolutely nothing
- Lives in a cheap market, Detroit
- Labeled a "senior associate" when there's nothing senior about his tenure
- Bill rate $275/hr

Complete BS.

[noise]

I know the facts as reported by the media:

- 22 years old
- graduated from mid-tier business school last May
- CFA level two "candidate," which means absolutely nothing
- Lives in a cheap market, Detroit
- Labeled a "senior associate" when there's nothing senior about his tenure
- Bill rate $275/hr

Complete BS.

I agree that something is complete BS, but it's in regards to your knowledge of the specifics. You could supply some hard data to support your assertion, though. That could help you.

[Wesley Mouch]

I know the facts as reported by the media:

- 22 years old
- graduated from mid-tier business school last May
- CFA level two "candidate," which means absolutely nothing
- Lives in a cheap market, Detroit
- Labeled a "senior associate" when there's nothing senior about his tenure
- Bill rate $275/hr

Complete BS.

One billing issue -- that might already have been addressed -- and you can't this out of your mind. This may be complete BS -- but let's put some perspective here. We're on a ship that hit an iceberg. We've been leaking money for years. Corruption. Stupidity. Inefficiency. Ghost employees. 100-400% overstaffing at water board. Bureaucracy that can't get back to people. Permits department that abuses businesses. Lighting department that spends money, but can't get lights on. Bus system that can't get buses on the road to meet schedule. City Clerk's office that can't count.

And you want to spend time criticizing some single thing that just might be a mistake? Yes, correct it -- but perspective please. That water rising around you means nothing. But I want don't want the rescue ship coming if it hasn't met every safety standard. Lighten up and start working on the 80,000# problem staring us in the face. Not the one that validates your personal prejudices, please.

[noise]

One billing issue -- that might already have been addressed -- and you can't this out of your mind. This may be complete BS -- but let's put some perspective here. We're on a ship that hit an iceberg. We've been leaking money for years. Corruption. Stupidity. Inefficiency. Ghost employees. 100-400% overstaffing at water board. Bureaucracy that can't get back to people. Permits department that abuses businesses. Lighting department that spends money, but can't get lights on. Bus system that can't get buses on the road to meet schedule. City Clerk's office that can't count.

And you want to spend time criticizing some single thing that just might be a mistake? Yes, correct it -- but perspective please. That water rising around you means nothing. But I want don't want the rescue ship coming if it hasn't met every safety standard. Lighten up and start working on the 80,000# problem staring us in the face. Not the one that validates your personal prejudices, please.

It's a big IF that the charge may be high. In the original story, a competing firm mentioned they charge $225/hour for new staff. Seems pretty on par...despite the belief this is "cheap market".

[corktownyuppie]

“The city benefits because it pays one rate,” Nowling wrote in an email. “So, there are others with much more experience billing at the same rate within the classification.”

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2cf88pq1e




We can't really focus on this guy's billing rate because it isn't really a relevant number. We are getting charged $275 per hour regardless whether or not it's a $1,000 per hour or a $150 per hour employee.

[Cliffy]

I'm pro-business. And crony capitalism is a major concern. This bankruptcy has nothing to do with crony capitalism. Don't cry wolf. The wolf was us.

The wolf might have been us but the wolf is also the lawyers and financial analysts and consultants. They are jumping head first into this big financial windfall too.

[Lily]

There would have to be several. You know, one to open the book, one to look @ the numbers, one to write them down, one to sharpen the pencil, etc., etc., etc.,

HT.....if i may interrupt. Wouldn't an electrician be needed to change potential light burned out bulbs and a plumber......... [[Crawling back under my rock)

[Honky Tonk]

HT.....if i may interrupt. Wouldn't an electrician be needed to change potential light burned out bulbs and a plumber......... [[Crawling back under my rock)

2 electricians, one to steady the ladder, and a Journeyman to actually change the bulb.

[Wesley Mouch]

The wolf might have been us but the wolf is also the lawyers and financial analysts and consultants. They are jumping head first into this big financial windfall too.

I get your point. Sure, the consultant wolf is a wolf. Yes. And yes. Its is however a much, much, much smaller wolf than the one that's just about eaten your entire leg over the last decade.

...but I worry about the mindset. Why worry about that particular comparatively small wolf. That small wolf although willing to enjoy a feast on your withering body is part of a system that is defending you against the much larger wolf. The little wolf may enjoy your viscera, but the big wolf was sure to kill you. Let the little wolf take a few bites -- and let him heal you. You need to be healthy to deal with what is yet to come.

Our mindset should be 'we hate lawyers and consultants', but we're glad you're here. Please tell us what we need to do so our finances are stable and we can get healthy again.