South side of East Jefferson east of St. Jean

[Honky Tonk]

A border patrol station...that's what this development is [[so says the sign on Jefferson).

My two cents on the area: its empty and needs people and small businesses. You're going to have a hard time attracting big box that close to the river [[unless someone can figure out how to put a lot of houses on the river itself).

On some level, that area's proximity to downtown should make it ripe for development, but it seems to lack many of the attributes that make for strong urban neighborhoods. Commerce always seems spotty on Jefferson near Chrysler, the street is too wide, etc.

1953

That's been tried and that too fell flat on it's face. There are several recent housing developments in that area that are either empty, or barely squeaking by. If you look @ the various Detroit Crime Map sites, crime in that area is NOT bad @ all. So I'm not sure what the underlying issue is. The part you're referring to Jefferson near Chrysler, IS undevelopable, [[is that a real word????) because both sides of Jefferson have fenced off industrial sections. Except, of course the vacant land that is now being commandeered for the Border Patrol Station.

[poobert]

That's been tried and that too fell flat on it's face. There are several recent housing developments in that area that are either empty, or barely squeaking by. If you look @ the various Detroit Crime Map sites, crime in that area is NOT bad @ all. So I'm not sure what the underlying issue is. The part you're referring to Jefferson near Chrysler, IS undevelopable, [[is that a real word????) because both sides of Jefferson have fenced off industrial sections. Except, of course the vacant land that is now being commandeered for the Border Patrol Station.

As to those who think a big box would go well there, that's just nuts. I live in EEV and the Meijer in Roseville is just as close [[admittingly, going to Roseville is horrible) - therefore, a big box at that site would be even further for people in the Farms, Shores, or Woods. There ain't much else to draw from.

I think that area is in limbo. You're not quite downtown or really near downtown, and you're not quite on the edge of the city. You don't have waterfront property, and you're surrounded by industry. Geographically, there isn't really any reason to live there. I'm glad the government is making use out of it.

That housing development southeast of there really speaks to Orr's comment on the city being 'fucking retarded' for the past 100 years, or whatever he said. Let's create a ghetto version of the suburbs in the middle of the city. Great idea. Masterful.

[mam2009]

There are so many apartment units downtown & along the riverfront between downtown & Alter Rd.; & plenty of commuter traffic along Jefferson, in addition to the population dense areas south of Jefferson between Conner & Alter Road, Indian Village, West Village, Berry Sub, etc. I would think that would satisfy the urban "rooftops" threshold, no?

If the "circle" for Whole Foods was ok, what's wrong with the "circle" on E. Jefferson?

[mam2009]

As to those who think a big box would go well there, that's just nuts...

...That housing development southeast of there really speaks to Orr's comment on the city being 'fucking retarded' for the past 100 years, or whatever he said. Let's create a ghetto version of the suburbs in the middle of the city. Great idea. Masterful.

Ahem. Well... the other "suburban" community in "the ghetto" south of E. Jefferson has been THRIVING since the 90's. Just sayin'.

[Honky Tonk]

Ahem. Well... the other "suburban" community in "the ghetto" south of E. Jefferson has been THRIVING since the 90's. Just sayin'.

Good one!!

[sumas]

Mike Curis shopping centers are doing well. That would be Riverbend and Alter Mack. He is civic minded partnered with area non profits, good planning on his part.

I could say plenty negative about residential development along the east side riverfront but I think I'll keep my mouth shut on that one. That would be a rant going for pages.

I keep probably 98% of my business in Detroit. I detest malls, not much use for big box stores either. I like my smaller stores where you know the employee names and they know yours. My husband is a master at remembering names and people love it. We get such great service at our little stores and markets. If they don't have what we need they order it for us. We have this one little restaurant we go to on occasion and they see us coming and treat us like royalty.

Truth told I didn't like that big Farmer Jack. My parents were visually impaired, so I notice things and the lighting sucked there.

To rat on myself, we have one store we go to and our drink of choice is Crystal Palace Vodka, they ordered it in special for us, honest I don't buy it often but when I go in they call me Crystal. I don't know if I amused or insulted.

Cityplanner is right though, the river creates a half circle and big box stores look at that closely. Not enough draw.

[1953]

Honky Tonk - I meant that you would literally need to build on the river water in order to create the population density necessary to attract big box in that area.

[royce]

Well, I guess if I was a developer I would build terrible developments, meaning that things would not add up right like the shopping center in discussion. Unlike me, the developers made a special point to disconnect the residential component of the development with the retail component. Your house could be right behind the shopping center and you would not have to worry about walking to it because some of the other houses are in the way and a berm was built so that you couldn't get to it by foot. Also, only one street was made available for pedestrian and vehicle traffic to get to the stores from the residential component. That was brilliant planning.

In addition, the houses were set so far back from Jefferson that if you even thought about walking to a bus stop to get to work your would shake your head and realize that a car is the only way to go and that you should thank the developers for building the residential component in such a way that they assisted you in not wasting your time walking to any thing important. Again, brilliant planning. I, as a developer, could never have come up with so many great ideas as the developers did with this whole development. I should thank my lucky stars that I never became a developer. I would be terrible.

[royce]

Sarcasm aside, I also take issue with the set back for this development. Clearly it's huge and uninviting, saying to people along or across Jefferson, "Don't try walking to get here, you might die of exhaustion. Only take a car." Now, most of us on this forum have preferred developments that come right up to the side walk, but this one is just too deep. I'm not crazy about the setback at the Harbortown shopping center, but it's half the size of this one [[at least in front of the former Farmer Jack site). I understand that Farmer Jack, because it was a grocery store, needed more depth for parking, but some of the stores to the west of it probably should have been situated in front of it like what they did with Wonderland Mall at Plymouth and Middlebelt in Livonia.

Whatever the case may be, this entire development, retail and residential, was designed very poorly in my opinion. Hindsight is 20/20, but Crosswinds probably should have built some apartments/condos to get more people to live in the Jefferson Village development than to build just houses. Those hundreds of additional people and a "walkable" design could have helped this shopping center development thrive and survive. The developer who tries to resurrect this development will need to keep those things in mind.

BTW, the State of Michigan took over a large space of retail shops at Eight Mile and Beech [[Daly) and turned it into a government office. Maybe they could do the same thing with the former Farmer Jack site.

[Honky Tonk]

Honky Tonk - I meant that you would literally need to build on the river water in order to create the population density necessary to attract big box in that area.

1953, I understood what you meant, and I stand by my statement. Back around 2005, big, new homes around the $300K price tag, were built on the water, in a gated community, next to the Edison Boat Club. To this day, I don't believe one of them is occupied. That isn't the only new development on the water. Others were stopped and the projects abandoned. Other developments are struggling to stay even keel. Part of it has to do with the collapse of the housing market, a LOT of it has to do with the collapse of Detroit. I moved to the Eastside in 2005, and the area looked like it was on the rebound. Now it looks in worse shape than before the upswing. Even small, private businesses are either constantly turning over, or closed for good, and the properties falling into despair. The fact that people that area is "thriving" is laughable.

[hybridy]

Back around 2005, big, new homes around the $300K price tag, were built on the water, in a gated community, next to the Edison Boat Club. To this day, I don't believe one of them is occupied. That isn't the only new development on the water.

Morgan Waterfront Estates. Those monstrocities are 5,000+ SF. I would be interested to hear more about that whole development. I'm sure lots of folks really got wet on that one.

Website is still active:
http://morganwaterfrontestates.com/home.php

[Zacha341]

^^^ I'd forgotten about those. Looks somewhat like web site on life support... no links regarding anything currently active. Does ANYONE live there? Who/how are the properties maintained?

[motz]

That's inaccurate.
Kroger still had sour grapes over the failure at 7 Mile and Gratiot, so they opted not to inherit these locations.

I want to hear more about this, I've always been surprised that Kroger has avoided the city, considering that people seem to be gobbling Meijer and Whole Foods up like CRAZY.