Orr laying the groundwork for sale of DIA art

[Honky Tonk]

Not to worry. Krystal Crittendon is going to fire Orr after she is elected Mayor this autumn. She said so in a debate. He won't be able to sell the collection before then.

She's also bringing back swim-mobiles and book-mobiles to address the real problems of Detroit.

[Gistok]

I read the Plain Dealer from Cleveland. People there are already talking about how the Cleveland Museum of Art should buy some of Detroit's paintings for a bargain.

The Getty can outbid everyone else...

[Lily]

Am i reading correctly, the city couldn't be forced to sell but could choose to?

[trotwood]

The court will probably appoint Mr. Orr as the "receiver in banruptcy" to perform executive functions while the city is going through the process.

Thank you very much Hermod.

[p69rrh51]

The Getty can outbid everyone else...

Eveyone I know in Los Angeles already believes the collection is on its way to the Getty.

[BankruptcyGuy]

Pardon my ignorance[[and possible thread jacking)but I'm a bit confused about Kevin Orr's status or more to the point his continued status after the bankruptcy issue is settled by the courts.
My question is once a judge determines Detroit can indeed go into bankruptcy what becomes of Kevin Orr? Does he remain in place as the EM or does bankruptcy negate the need for an EM?

Chapter 9 cases are exclusively "debtor-in-possession" cases, so the lawful manager [[that's the EM, pursuant to state law) continues to run the city.

[BankruptcyGuy]

A couple of points:

Under no circumstances can a judge order the sale of assets in a Chapter 9. He can grant relief under the plan of adjustment, or deny relief if such relief is inequitable. Unless Orr proposes selling art, it can't be sold. Neither creditors nor the federal judge can order it.

Why, then, is Orr appraising the art? My guess is that he will be heading off the argument that the city is sitting on billions of dollars of assets without paying creditors. I would imagine the art would have to be appraised subject to any restrictions that exist--an owner can sell no more than it has. So if the piece of art is "on loan" or has a restricted use, then the valuation would be $0. Bankruptcy courts like having an expert provide them with indicators of value, not the parties.

[Honky Tonk]

A couple of points:

Under no circumstances can a judge order the sale of assets in a Chapter 9. He can grant relief under the plan of adjustment, or deny relief if such relief is inequitable. Unless Orr proposes selling art, it can't be sold. Neither creditors nor the federal judge can order it.

Why, then, is Orr appraising the art? My guess is that he will be heading off the argument that the city is sitting on billions of dollars of assets without paying creditors. I would imagine the art would have to be appraised subject to any restrictions that exist--an owner can sell no more than it has. So if the piece of art is "on loan" or has a restricted use, then the valuation would be $0. Bankruptcy courts like having an expert provide them with indicators of value, not the parties.

I don't know who you are, but I appreciate your responses.

[stasu1213]

What is Orr's agenda? What is Snyder's agenda? Who is really pulling the strings. I had thought that the DIA belong to the region of Southeast Michigan and not Detroit.

[mwilbert]

What is Orr's agenda? What is Snyder's agenda? Who is really pulling the strings. I had thought that the DIA belong to the region of Southeast Michigan and not Detroit.

Culturally, yes. Legally, no.

[Novine]

Snyder wasn't interested in "right-to-work". Orr didn't want to go into bankruptcy. Orr has "no intentions" of selling any of the DIA artwork. At some point, you have to stop listening to the rhetoric coming out of their mouths and pay attention to what they are doing. As I said earlier, actions speak louder than words.

[Honky Tonk]

What is Orr's agenda? What is Snyder's agenda? Who is really pulling the strings. I had thought that the DIA belong to the region of Southeast Michigan and not Detroit.

What freakin' "agenda" and what "strings"? Detroit is broke, and no way, with or without the EFM, is it capable of bailing itself out. [[unless you believe Howze, that it's only a matter of moving the decimal point) Bennie Napolean said sell the artwork to pay the bills. Other people are condoning selling off the DWSD, or Belle Isle to pay the bills. This isn't some hostile corporate take-over, the City government was partying like it was 1999, and now it's time to pay the DJ. You only have "X" amount of options, and that's it.

[313WX]

Snyder wasn't interested in "right-to-work". Orr didn't want to go into bankruptcy. Orr has "no intentions" of selling any of the DIA artwork. At some point, you have to stop listening to the rhetoric coming out of their mouths and pay attention to what they are doing. As I said earlier, actions speak louder than words.

You make a fair point.

Also, the fact that Bill Schuette is talking out both sides of his ass [[which granted he always does) when it comes to Detroit's bankruptcy and the Pensioners has me a bit worried too.

[Zug]

I don't know who you are, but I appreciate your responses.

Based on his name, it just may be Kevin Orr

[Honky Tonk]

Based on his name, it just may be Kevin Orr

Then I'm even more impressed with him then I was. And if it's BS, I'm NOT playing poker with this guy, [[or girl).

[trotwood]

Chapter 9 cases are exclusively "debtor-in-possession" cases, so the lawful manager [[that's the EM, pursuant to state law) continues to run the city.

Thank you so much. Btw, I'm with Honkey Tonk....I appreciate your answers and the education I'm getting from them.

[guito13]

What is Orr's agenda? What is Snyder's agenda? Who is really pulling the strings. I had thought that the DIA belong to the region of Southeast Michigan and not Detroit.

Culturally, yes. Legally, no.

So why are residents in all three counties paying taxes on the DIA if we don't have a stake in it?

[Honky Tonk]

So why are residents in all three counties paying taxes on the DIA if we don't have a stake in it?

Because they get to use it for free now during normal business hours. How much of a stake do you expect @ about $10 a year?

[GPCharles]

Pay attention to what Gene Gargaro, Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Detroit Institute of Arts has to say and read between the lines a bit. This is a wild conjecture, but based on what he has said, I get the feeling he is lining up his ducks for a purchase of the building and the collection by the Founder's Society or some other such Detroit-based charitable entity to own and operate the DIA.

[Wesley Mouch]

Snyder wasn't interested in "right-to-work". Orr didn't want to go into bankruptcy. Orr has "no intentions" of selling any of the DIA artwork. At some point, you have to stop listening to the rhetoric coming out of their mouths and pay attention to what they are doing. As I said earlier, actions speak louder than words.

Absolutely right. Their actions do speak louder than words. But what are their actions saying so loudly.

I hear Snyder saying "I wish I didn't have to deal with Detroit. Its a political nightmare. I put a great guy in place to help avoid bankruptcy, and he got sued every three seconds by everyone involved. Oh well, I still need to do the right thing and fix what Detroit's leaders have messed up for so long. This is hard. No wonder why my Democratic predecessor couldn't get it done. Oh well, I don't avoid hard things. And I'll make tough decisions like RTW when pushed."

I hear Orr saying "I hate to think about selling DIA art, but I have a job to do, and my job requires me to treat all stakeholders here fairly and with all the facts. I need to know the value of the DIA art so I can act responsibly".

We all hear different things oh so loudly.

Other's hear a conspiracy. HA! Conspire to take over Detroit? That's like conspiring to take over Herpes.

[rex]

if they sell all the art & I will the powerball Im moving in.

[coracle]

So why are residents in all three counties paying taxes on the DIA if we don't have a stake in it?

It's called taxation without representation and was the opening salvo on more to come. It was sold to the counties as "only $12" and a noble thing to do because it's Art; and it was noted how meekly the counties approved it. If you recall it was a millage to be raised for Artistic enterprises anywhere in the three counties but that was a lie; it had been already earmarked for the DIA. When the bankruptcy is done and dusted there will be many more "only $12'' requests for millages.

[Honky Tonk]

It's called taxation without representation and was the opening salvo on more to come. It was sold to the counties as "only $12" and a noble thing to do because it's Art; and it was noted how meekly the counties approved it. If you recall it was a millage to be raised for Artistic enterprises anywhere in the three counties but that was a lie; it had been already earmarked for the DIA. When the bankruptcy is done and dusted there will be many more "only $12'' requests for millages.

Being a regular member, and since it passed, I've seen people in there that I've never seen, nor would they have an incling to visit. And you know what? I've yet to hear anyone say "this sucks!" Take advantage of that budget breaking $12 you've spent, and come down and see for yourself. Come visit for 10 minutes or so......

[guito13]

Because they get to use it for free now during normal business hours. How much of a stake do you expect @ about $10 a year?

I don't expect and individual "stake" but if you take 10 multiplied by the number of households in each county, city, etc. it becomes a relevant figure.

[sumas]

I adore the DIA and my grown sons are regulars visitors also. I doubt very much it would get its art touched, the litigation would take years.