Thought Experiment: Relocating the State Capital to Detroit

**gazhekwe** · August-03-13, 08:02 AM

If you go to Cadillac Place [[former GM Building and now State of Michigan) you will find major offices of most state departments. The Department I worked for has its HQ there with a smaller office in Lansing. Logistically speaking, it would be relatively easy to expand that presence, but the legislative function would require a lot more space. There are plenty of empty buildings in the New Center, though.

**313WX** · August-03-13, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

Oh good Lord, we have had enough idiot local politicians. Who would want more!

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Every representative from across the state will finally HAVE to drive to Detroit in order to represent their citizens in the legislature. That means they will need to spend money in restaurants and hotels for the time they're hear, which is more money being circulated throughout the city's economy. Not to mention maybe if more of them saw for themselves the great things Detroit has to offer in person and how dire the situation is, they'll be more willing to do more things to help the city.

**aj3647** · August-03-13, 09:52 AM

This isn't 1848, Lansing is an established city now. You can't just kill that city off and poach the capital because it would be "nice" to have the extra money in Detroit. And forget about the cost of moving the capital to Detroit, or constructing a new capital building for that matter. Tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars in wholly unnecessary spending, but hey it's worth it as long as some Detroit restaurants get a little extra capital business! Fuck those people in Lansing, Detroit needs a feather in its cap!

And then of course there's the "it's all because Racism!" card, even though the capital was established in 1848. Clearly the intent was to derive a future majority black city of a powerful economic engine. Right, Detroitnerd?

**Newdetroit** · August-03-13, 09:13 PM

I was listening to the radio in Washington DC two days ago on this very topic..States which have capitals in its large cities and those that have them out further away. The researcher stated that the reason for putting the state capitals away from big business was to minimize corruption. However, it turns out that states with capitals in smaller towns have more corruption than those states where the capital is in the major city. For instance, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, California are the most corrupt state governments while Utah, Mass, Georgia, have the lowest amount of corruption....All that being said, I actually wish that Michigan's Capital was St. Ignace - Mackinaw City. It would have been cool to have the capital on each side of the peninsulas. Kind of symbolic and it would certainly have been more pleasant that Lansing. Oh well.

**leapfrog** · August-03-13, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

Oh good Lord, we have had enough idiot local politicians. Who would want more!

Could we term limit local politicians too? Thats something I could get behind.

**Gistok** · August-03-13, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Newdetroit

I actually wish that Michigan's Capital was St. Ignace - Mackinaw City. It would have been cool to have the capital on each side of the peninsulas. Kind of symbolic and it would certainly have been more pleasant that Lansing. Oh well.

Not when the lower peninsula has 97% and upper peninsula has 3% of the states population!!

**Hermod** · August-04-13, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Newdetroit

I was listening to the radio in Washington DC two days ago on this very topic..States which have capitals in its large cities and those that have them out further away. The researcher stated that the reason for putting the state capitals away from big business was to minimize corruption. However, it turns out that states with capitals in smaller towns have more corruption than those states where the capital is in the major city. For instance, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, California are the most corrupt state governments while Utah, Mass, Georgia, have the lowest amount of corruption....All that being said, I actually wish that Michigan's Capital was St. Ignace - Mackinaw City. It would have been cool to have the capital on each side of the peninsulas. Kind of symbolic and it would certainly have been more pleasant that Lansing. Oh well.

New York, New Jersey, and Illinois also have massive amounts of corruption in their largest cities.

**Gistok** · August-04-13, 12:56 PM

State and international capitals are a complex mix of different issues as to why they are where they are...

Illinois became a state in 1818 and neither Chicago nor Springfield even existed then, so the capital moved around. Ditto for Indiana [[statehood in 1816) and Ohio [[statehood in 1803)... their capital cities didn't even exist when the state was incorporated... Michigan, Georgia and many other states were the same way. The reasons for where to put the capital varied from state to state... in some states bribes were used, in others logic became the choice.

So let's not try to assume that from 1787 [[when Deleware became the first state) to nearly 180 years later in 1959 [[when Alaska and Hawaii became the last states)... that the same reasoning was used to determine the state capitals.... it wasn't!

A couple of other things... "West" Germany had Bonn as its' temporary capital until a determination or unification would settle the issue... they opted to move back to the old capital of Berlin.

In Italy Torino became the first capital of a unified Italy... followed by Florence... and finally Rome. It all had to do with politics of the merged kingdoms that became the country [[and the fact that for hundreds of years Rome wasn't even Italy's largest city again until modern times).

In Russia... Peter the Great wanted a "window to the west" and moved the capital from Moscow to the new [[swampy) location of St. Petersburg.

Brazilia had different reasons... one was that Rio was not centralized, and it was also so very crowded and had little space for expansion due to being hemmed in by coastal mountains.

Paris was the capital of the Kingdom of France [[the Ile de France) for over 1000 years. Ironically the Kingdom of France wasn't even the largest territory within the borders of France today... back in the middle ages Burgundy, Normandy, Brittany and Aquitaine were all larger than the Kingdom of France.

In Britain... London evolved into the capital of the country... after the merger of the smaller kingdoms, Winchester became the Saxon capital... later transfered to Westminster during the time of Edward the Confessor. It wasn't until later than that that Westminster grew into an ever expanding London.

In Spain, the capital moved from Toledo to Madrid [[partly to do with the merging of the independent kingdoms [[Castile, Aragon, Leon, etc).

In Poland the early capital was Krakow, later transfered to Warsaw.

In Germany there was no set capital of the Holy Roman Empire... it moved about from ruler to ruler... starting at Aachen, later Quedlingburg, Goslar, Bamberg, Nuremberg, Prague and finally Vienna before the desolution of the Holy Roman Empire and emergence of Prussia in the 18th and early 19th century, when Berlin became the capital.

So each capital emerged on its' own merits... nots some common agenda...

**Detroitnerd** · August-05-13, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by aj3647

And then of course there's the "it's all because Racism!" card, even though the capital was established in 1848. Clearly the intent was to derive a future majority black city of a powerful economic engine. Right, Detroitnerd?

I think I pretty clearly elaborated why U.S. state capitals are mostly located away from major cities. Race wasn't a factor.

Why would outstaters resist having the capital in Detroit? I left that open. Run wild with it.

And, yes, Gistok, lots of reasons why capitals are located where they are. Although we seem to be a minority in locating our capitals in smaller towns [[and letting them stay small, for that matter). As I finally concluded, I think a lot of it has to do with how we view cities in America, and whether or not we invest in them, especially since the advent of the motorcar.

**Hermod** · August-05-13, 08:44 AM

There is probably more rational for locating the state's primary university in a small and isolated town to shield the scholars from the hurly-burly of urban life so that they can properly cogitate on the problems of the universe. Mr Jefferson's university [[University of Virginia in Charlottesville) was purposely so placed. When the university was established, Charlottesville was a really dinky town [[despite Jefferson's efforts with Sally Hemings to increase the population). Charlottesville only grew when it became a major junction of the Southern and C&O railroads.

**Hermod** · August-05-13, 08:46 AM

Little blurb in the paper today giving significant events occurring on August 5:

August 5, 1833. The village of Chicago was incorporated in Illinois. Population at time of incorporation was 200 .

**Detroitnerd** · August-05-13, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

There is probably more rational for locating the state's primary university in a small and isolated town to shield the scholars from the hurly-burly of urban life so that they can properly cogitate on the problems of the universe. Mr Jefferson's university [[University of Virginia in Charlottesville) was purposely so placed. When the university was established, Charlottesville was a really dinky town [[despite Jefferson's efforts with Sally Hemings to increase the population). Charlottesville only grew when it became a major junction of the Southern and C&O railroads.

I think this is more in line with the pastoral fantasies of the past. It's kind of out-of-date to think of education as a monkish pursuit, where people sit in quiet libraries overlooking green lawns with flowering trees. Cities are excellent places for exchanging ideas or being confronted with new ones.

Don't get me wrong, though. Small towns are good for what they are. Rural hamlets too. Even a country post office can be good. The mistake is in thinking that cities cannot be great due to some failing of cities themselves.