Justice for Trayvon [Protest Rally in Grand Circus Park]

**Jimaz** · July-16-13, 06:09 PM

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**hudkina** · July-16-13, 06:56 PM

Why should Zimmerman have to stay in his car? It's not illegal for Zimmerman to get out of a car and follow a suspicious person through his neighborhood. Hindsight is 20/20, but in the moment I don't blame Zimmerman for getting out of the car in an effort to keep another suspicious individual from getting out of sight before the cops arrived. Obviously Martin wasn't up to no good, but again, there's no way to know that before hand. For all Zimmerman knew, Martin could have been casing apartments or could have already broken into an apartment, and keeping an eye on Martin until the police arrived could have saved someones life. Again, Zimmerman was wrong in his presumption, but you can't blame him for not knowing at the time.

And even if Zimmerman started the actual fight, the fact that there is enough reasonable doubt means that there is no way the jury could have convicted him. Whether or not Zimmerman truly murdered a young man or defended himself from a young man is clearly debatable. And for that the jury was right in acquitting Zimmerman. It's not the court's job to determine that Zimmerman was innocent. It was the court's job to determine that Zimmerman was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Clearly there is enough reasonable doubt, and therefore Zimmerman is free.

**Wesley Mouch** · July-16-13, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

...Being a wanna be cop, self appointed neighborhood watch captain does not give you the right to exert your authority over whom you see fit. Granted it is not illegal, but how can you claim victim when you set the ball in motion. Like Newton's 3rd law states, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Being a 'wannabe cop' may not give you right to 'exert your authority', but it does give you every right to follow someone on your property.

The idea that Zimmerman should have just backed off is very naive. The purpose of a neighborhood watch is to, well, watch.

One can reasonably criticize his handling of the situation -- but not criticize his interest in following Mr. Martin.

**Downriviera** · July-16-13, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Being an asshole is now punishable by death? Asshole or not, zim stays in his car, none of this happens. I firmly believe the only reason he got out of the car is because he was carrying a concealed weapon and knew he'd have the upper hand in any confrontation.

How does Zimmerman know he'd have the upper hand in any confrontation? How does he know the guy he's following doesn't have a gun. It was dangerous for him to get out of his car and follow a stranger. All he wants to do is protect his neighborhood. Go talk to the woman whose home was broken into while she was upstairs with her baby completely terrified.

**Jimaz** · July-16-13, 09:30 PM

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**Danny** · July-16-13, 09:41 PM

It least we Detroit didn't race riot unlike those Bloods and Crips on Crenshaw Blvd. in South Central Los Angeles. They even tore up the Wal-Mart store inside the mall.

**Jimaz** · July-16-13, 09:59 PM

DetroitYES Home » Non Detroit Issues » Thom Hartmann » Trayvon Martin's Parents are to Blame for his Death

**marshamusic** · July-16-13, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

It least we Detroit didn't race riot unlike those Bloods and Crips on Crenshaw Blvd. in South Central Los Angeles. They even tore up the Wal-Mart store inside the mall.

One of my Facebook friends, in Oakland, CA, wrote this post, this morning:

"From my side deck, I can see four helicopters hovering over downtown Oakland, and I suspect they're continuing their demonstration over George Zimmerman's acquittal. Last night, the demonstrators started peacefully, but by the end of the night, they'd started breaking windows of local businesses. EVERY single time this happens, it's always young white kids that start breaking stuff. What's up with that? During the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, we were a mixed crowd, every age, shape and form, marching, blocking traffic, whatever ... but we were peaceful. And within a few hours, these self proclaimed "anarchists" show up, wearing all black, with back packs full of tools, spray paint and other destructive items, and start making a mess of things. We got so fed up last time, a bunch of us went back downtown, afterward, and started cleaning up the mess, just to show that these destructive acts are NOT appreciated. When the police started arresting the vandals, not one was of color, and most didn't even live in Oakland. I'm sick of Oakland getting a bad rap for a bunch of spoiled brats. We're all upset about how things went down in Florida, so why break the windows of a local restaurant or bar?"

Other posters commented about the same phenomenon going on in LA as well.

**Zacha341** · July-16-13, 11:26 PM

That's really helpful. Next the grocery stores so they will have to call for the FEMA trucks for food relief. What an irony that would be?

Originally Posted by Danny

It least we Detroit didn't race riot unlike those Bloods and Crips on Crenshaw Blvd. in South Central Los Angeles. They even tore up the Wal-Mart store inside the mall.

**EastsideAl** · July-16-13, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

It was dangerous for him to get out of his car and follow a stranger.

It was apparently much more dangerous for Trayvon Martin to be the "stranger" [[who, again, had every right to be where he was, doing what he was doing). Especially since he was the unarmed one. Zimmerman "protected" his neighborhood by killing the relative of one of its residents going about his perfectly legal business.

**Johnnny5** · July-16-13, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by marshamusic

One of my Facebook friends, in Oakland, CA, wrote this post, this morning:

"From my side deck, I can see four helicopters hovering over downtown Oakland, and I suspect they're continuing their demonstration over George Zimmerman's acquittal. Last night, the demonstrators started peacefully, but by the end of the night, they'd started breaking windows of local businesses. EVERY single time this happens, it's always young white kids that start breaking stuff. What's up with that? During the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, we were a mixed crowd, every age, shape and form, marching, blocking traffic, whatever ... but we were peaceful. And within a few hours, these self proclaimed "anarchists" show up, wearing all black, with back packs full of tools, spray paint and other destructive items, and start making a mess of things. We got so fed up last time, a bunch of us went back downtown, afterward, and started cleaning up the mess, just to show that these destructive acts are NOT appreciated. When the police started arresting the vandals, not one was of color, and most didn't even live in Oakland. I'm sick of Oakland getting a bad rap for a bunch of spoiled brats. We're all upset about how things went down in Florida, so why break the windows of a local restaurant or bar?"

Other posters commented about the same phenomenon going on in LA as well.

Those anarchist morons will riot over anything and everything. Just a bunch of unemployed slacker kids trying their best to fit in with all the other "non conformists". That being said, I have seen plenty of black faces in the Zimmerman rioting videos over the last few days, it's not the just the lazy white kids causing problems.

**Meddle** · July-17-13, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

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**Wesley Mouch** · July-17-13, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

It was apparently much more dangerous for Trayvon Martin to be the "stranger" [[who, again, had every right to be where he was, doing what he was doing). Especially since he was the unarmed one. Zimmerman "protected" his neighborhood by killing the relative of one of its residents going about his perfectly legal business.

Aggressive behavior just because you are being followed or even if you are called names is not acceptable. It can end up badly. And it did.

**Zacha341** · July-17-13, 06:11 AM

Bandwidth wasting......

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Originally Posted by Meddle

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**noise** · July-17-13, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Those anarchist morons will riot over anything and everything. Just a bunch of unemployed slacker kids trying their best to fit in with all the other "non conformists". That being said, I have seen plenty of black faces in the Zimmerman rioting videos over the last few days, it's not the just the lazy white kids causing problems.

That dismissive attitude is the same one Zimmerman had when he started stalking an innocent black kid.

**noise** · July-17-13, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Aggressive behavior just because you are being followed or even if you are called names is not acceptable. It can end up badly. And it did.

Unless you have a reasonable belief of a threat, in which case you're just standing your ground. And given the situation, it turns out that belief would have been completely reasonable.

**bailey** · July-17-13, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Aggressive behavior just because you are being followed or even if you are called names is not acceptable. It can end up badly. And it did.

I don't understand how this simple point is continually ignored. THE ONLY ONE ATTESTING TO ANY [[so called) "AGGRESSIVE" BEHAVIOR BY THE THE DEAD KID IS THE ONE WHO SHOT HIM.

witnesses have given testimony on how the fight ended...not how it started. not who made "aggressive" contact with whom. not who threw the first punch. NONE of that.

Further, the only person to make any claim about Martin's "casing" of the condos or "suspicious" behavior is again THE GUY WHO SHOT HIM.

MARTIN IS NOT HERE TO TESTIFY TO REFUTE ZIMS TESTIMONY BECAUSE HE"S FUCKING DEAD.

jesus.

**noise** · July-17-13, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't understand how this simple point is continually ignored. THE ONLY ONE ATTESTING TO ANY [[so called) "AGGRESSIVE" BEHAVIOR BY THE THE DEAD KID IS THE ONE WHO SHOT HIM.

Well he says he's innocent. Good enough for me!

**Johnnny5** · July-17-13, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

I don't understand how this simple point is continually ignored. THE ONLY ONE ATTESTING TO ANY [[so called) "AGGRESSIVE" BEHAVIOR BY THE THE DEAD KID IS THE ONE WHO SHOT HIM.

witnesses have given testimony on how the fight ended...not how it started. not who made "aggressive" contact with whom. not who threw the first punch. NONE of that.

Further, the only person to make any claim about Martin's "casing" of the condos or "suspicious" behavior is again THE GUY WHO SHOT HIM.

MARTIN IS NOT HERE TO TESTIFY TO REFUTE ZIMS TESTIMONY BECAUSE HE"S FUCKING DEAD.

jesus.

I agree that there's not a lot of evidence to back up Zimmerman's claim that Martin started the fight. That said, what evidence is there to say that he didn't?

Would it be right to sentence someone to life in prison without any evidence that they committed a crime?

**bailey** · July-17-13, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

I agree that there's not a lot of evidence to back up Zimmerman's claim that Martin started the fight. That said, what evidence is there to say that he didn't?

Thats why he got off. The prosecution could not meet the BRD standard to disprove his telling of the events.

What that doesn't mean is his statements were proved to be true.

**EastsideAl** · July-17-13, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Aggressive behavior just because you are being followed or even if you are called names is not acceptable. It can end up badly. And it did.

Aggressive behavior just because you think someone 'might' possibly do something, despite the fact that the activities that that person is actually undertaking are not illegal or threatening, is unacceptable. It can end up badly. And it did.

**EastsideAl** · July-17-13, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

What that doesn't mean is his statements were proved to be true.

Particularly since he was never cross-examined.

**Johnnny5** · July-17-13, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Thats why he got off. The prosecution could not meet the BRD standard to disprove his telling of the events.

What that doesn't mean is his statements were proved to be true.

I understand that. What I don't understand is the continued cry for "Justice for Trayvonn" when the main demand is the punishment of George Zimmerman even in the absence of evidence to prove his quilt.

It seems as if the mob mentality, racist attitudes and strong emotions are almost completely blinding people to the facts in this the case. Ironically, that's a similar mentality to what has led to the forced and false criminal convictions of many innocent Blacks in this country.

**bailey** · July-17-13, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

I understand that. What I don't understand is the continued cry for "Justice for Trayvonn" when the main demand is the punishment of George Zimmerman even in the absence of evidence to prove his quilt.

well, as a point of fact, there was no evidence proving Z's "innocence" either. Clear cases don't make for controversy. There is a serious black hole in the chain of events that lead to a young man's death. I don't think it's unreasonable to think there is an injustice and a guy got away with killing someone based on a lack of evidence to disprove his claims.

Personally, I find Zim's tale both hard to believe and non-nonsensical. However, if I were on the jury, I'm fairly certain I would have found him "not guilty" as there is "reasonable doubt".

I am interested in if civil charges are brought by the family. Z has to take the stand there.

**hudkina** · July-17-13, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

It seems as if the mob mentality, racist attitudes and strong emotions are almost completely blinding people to the facts in this the case. Ironically, that's a similar mentality to what has led to the forced and false criminal convictions of many innocent Blacks in this country.

And that's the ultimate irony in this case.