police/drug addled neighbors

**sumas** · July-12-13, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by 4V4DMD

Glad you did something about that bad neighbor Sumas. Residents need to stand up together.

really didn't do much of anything except make a few police reports and do a ground swell with neighbors. We are entitled to some respect. Thinking other people are bitching too.

I was most amused when a neighbor who was cutting grass complained saying don't mind the noise but at least play something I can sing to. It was sweet, I usually cut their grass but sprained my wrist and it is not healing so they are returning a favor.

That same neighbor was chatting up someone I have never seen later in the day. The music was on, off, on, off, etc. Haven't heard a peep since. Just guessing. Thinking someone got a serious message to cease.

Honest this is such a nice neighborhood. My husband has a disability so in an odd way our front porch is our window. Porches are charming things.

**Cliffy** · July-12-13, 10:28 PM

To anyone that calls the police on your neighbors, don't tell anyone. Just keep it to yourself. Once you tell one neighbor, then the whole neighborhood finds out.

**Zacha341** · July-13-13, 12:46 AM

Yes, I would say that would be true.

**sumas** · July-13-13, 06:54 AM

Good advice, I started the bitching but have since laid low. Like I said this is a neighborhood where everyone is related to someone in some way. That has its pluses and minuses.

**Zacha341** · July-13-13, 07:53 AM

Pluses and minuses indeed. And for sure and peoples standards and tolerances vary even when they claim to be on the same page initially.

Originally Posted by sumas

Good advice, I started the bitching but have since laid low. Like I said this is a neighborhood where everyone is related to someone in some way. That has its pluses and minuses.

**JBMcB** · July-13-13, 08:35 AM

Start surveillance. Set up shop in your front window with a chair aligned so you can see their house easily, ideally with shades drawn so they can't see in so easily. Take pictures of everyone coming and going. Write down license plate numbers. If they are talking loudly outside, record it. Look up property records and see if you can find their names. You can do all of the above with a halfway decent point and shoot camera from inside your house, if it's a sunny day. If something untoward happens to you or someone else in your neighborhood, turn over the whole package to police.

The more you know about them the better.

**marshamusic** · July-13-13, 11:10 AM

After the Detroit Yes picnic hubby and I decided to drive down Sumas' street, because it was on the way home. She's always talking about it here, so I wanted to see her neighborhood.

Sure enough it's an old leafy neighborhood, with beautiful old homes. Threadbare for sure, and even a horrid looking burnt-out home on the block, but it was quiet and peaceful.

I will note that Honky Tonk above said it right, that "smiling faces sometimes, pretend to be your friends" [[that old jam), cause we passed a group working on a car and they "grimmed" us [[as it is said in the hood) in a way that wasn't cool.

But all in all, a nice, sleepy old neighborhood. Like when I'd go visit my grandaddy's house on the west side, with the scuppernog-like grapes on the ancient vines.

For a while I've been wanting to start a new thread, about how did the drug culture - the drug dealers - get such a hold in this city? There are so many folks here from so many persuasions that I thought there'd be quite a discussion about how - in the beginning of the crack epidemic - did this happen.

Even though I'm sure some of the old cops and law folks who were here back then may be gone from here - that was 30 years ago, after all - I'm sure there are folks here now who remember those days.

It is rare today to see dealers set up shop in a new area, because the neighborhoods so disposed are already taken. This is a rare look into a phenomenon experienced by so many Detroiters, starting three decades ago.

I remember when folks were utterly astonished, terrorized, agog! at the imposition of the drug culture on block after block.

I guess I'm trying to say that what Sumas is experiencing is no different than what folks in these neighborhoods went through those years ago, and they loved their neighborhoods no less than she does.

Folks often look back - or look at, from afar - and say "how did they 'let' this happen?". But it was this same combination of incredulity, paralyses and terror that so many in this city faced.

Some couldn't beat it, and so they joined it. Others soldiered on, their lives shrinking into a facsimile of community life, some sought solace in the churches to seek a way to cope and a modicum of spiritual power to live with evil nearby. Some held on and met the dealers toe to toe, in subtly negotiated standoffs that left some neighborhoods half livable, half hell. Of course, thousands left. But it was a war, and most of the neighborhoods lost.

At any rate, I wouldn't wish what Sumas is going through on anyone. But fortunately, it will likely not last - because the times are different and that area is too close to potential development.

[[though sometimes I wonder if the penetration of dealers is the long lit fuse for neighborhoods that are deemed expendable for future development. The housing stock of this neighborhood is good, so perhaps not, but like I said, sometimes I wonder).

Anyway, I hope this problem goes away - that music that she says they are playing is VILE, and if they are playing this kind of stuff - for the whole neighborhood - no telling what they'll be up to next.

All that being said, I hope this is taken care of, because I still plan to come by and sit on the porch with Sumas and Ron.

[and don't forget, they - and/or your other neighbors - know how to look at DetroitYes, too]

**Honky Tonk** · July-13-13, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by marshamusic

After the Detroit Yes picnic hubby and I decided to drive down Sumas' street, because it was on the way home. She's always talking about it here, so I wanted to see her neighborhood.

Sure enough it's an old leafy neighborhood, with beautiful old homes. Threadbare for sure, and even a horrid looking burnt-out home on the block, but it was quiet and peaceful.

I will note that Honky Tonk above said it right, that "smiling faces sometimes, pretend to be your friends" [[that old jam), cause we passed a group working on a car and they "grimmed" us [[as it is said in the hood) in a way that wasn't cool.

But all in all, a nice, sleepy old neighborhood. Like when I'd go visit my grandaddy's house on the west side, with the scuppernog-like grapes on the ancient vines.

For a while I've been wanting to start a new thread, about how did the drug culture - the drug dealers - get such a hold in this city? There are so many folks here from so many persuasions that I thought there'd be quite a discussion about how - in the beginning of the crack epidemic - did this happen.

Even though I'm sure some of the old cops and law folks who were here back then may be gone from here - that was 30 years ago, after all, I'm sure there are folks here who remember those days.

It is rare today to see dealers set up shop in a new area, because the neighborhoods so disposed are already taken. This is a rare look into a phenomenon experienced by so many Detroiters, staring three decades ago.

I remember when folks were utterly astonished, terrorized, agog! at the imposition of the drug culture on block after block.
I guess I'm trying to say that what Sumas is experiencing is no different than what folks in these neighborhoods went through those years ago, and they loved their neighborhoods no less than she does.

Folks often look back - or look at, from afar - and say "how did they 'let' this happen?". But it was this same combination of incredulity, paralyses and terror that so many in this city faced.

Some couldn't beat it, and so they joined it. Others soldiered on, their lives shrinking into a facsimile of community life, some sought solace in the churches to seek a way to cope and a modicum of spiritual power to live with evil nearby. Some held on and met the dealers toe to toe, in subtly negotiated standoffs that left some neighborhoods half livable, half hell. Of course, thousands left. But it was a war, and most of the neighborhoods lost.

At any rate, I wouldn't wish what Sumas is going through on anyone. But fortunately, it will likely not last - because the times are different and that area is too close to potential development.

[[though sometimes I wonder if the penetration of dealers is the long, lit fuse for neighborhoods that are deemed expendable for future development. The housing stock of this neighborhood is good, so perhaps not, but like I said, sometimes I wonder).

Anyway, I hope this problem goes away - that music that she says they are playing is VILE, and if they are playing this kind of stuff - for the whole neighborhood - no telling what they'll be up to next.

All that being said, I hope this is taken care of, because I still plan to come by and sit on the porch with Sumas and Ron.

[and don't forget, they - and/or your other neighbors - know how to look at DetroitYes, too]

As [[almost) always, a good post. You're also witnessing one of the main reasons for the so-called "white flight" [[I REALLY HATE that term), and in later years, the "black educated" flight. Your analysis is one of the main reasons Detroit looks today as it does.

**marshamusic** · July-13-13, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

As [[almost) always, a good post. You're also witnessing one of the main reasons for the so-called "white flight" [[I REALLY HATE that term), and in later years, the "black educated" flight. Your analysis is one of the main reasons Detroit looks today as it does.

Almost? LOL! Well, nobodies perfect. :-)

As to white flight, and black flight, of course, that's what I'm saying [[without saying, because I thought that was a given). Though for sure, this era was the beginning of the last round of white flight.

[HT, why do you hate the term "white flight"? Isn't it simply descriptive for the earlier evacuation [[I don't always use the term "abandonment") of the city, before so many blacks left, too?]

You are right about the "look" of the city - we are often shocked when the photos of the city immediately post- '67 riots are so dense with homes, businesses and even trees, even in those days following the destruction of blocks upon blocks of properties. It was clearly not the riots that "destroyed the city".

But the crack epidemic and the subsequent desiccation of the population and its housing really cleared the city of housing stock.

......as well as insurance fires and the mortgage crisis.

But surely not The Riots. In fact, you could go through most residential neighborhoods of the city afterwards and visually never have a clue that anything had happened at all.

**Zacha341** · July-13-13, 02:02 PM

Awesome points MM, the comment and the previous one you wrote. Add to that the casinos and the economy.

Originally Posted by marshamusic

But the crack epidemic and the subsequent desiccation of the population and its housing really cleared the city of housing stock.

......as well as insurance fires and the mortgage crisis.

**sumas** · July-13-13, 04:42 PM

Point is well taken, what goes on line stays on line. I do appreciate in particular the women on these threads. The angst I feel is real. I am a life long Detroiter and have seen it at its best and worst and now hopefully a real rejuvenation.

My neighborhood is so wonderful in general. I sprained my wrist and association people put it out I needed some help and help keeps arriving at my door. Fortunately, I was able through family to take care of stuff, but to to have neighbors show up to volunteer is so heart warming.

I could share many horror stories, I don't have blinders on, but I really try to focus on this is a DETROIT YES forum.

MM you totally need to experience our porch. All houses should have porches, they are like a community activity center. Can't wait to have you as a guest.

**Zacha341** · July-13-13, 05:38 PM

Porches are fun. I just did a bit chilling or shall I say sunning on mine. Reading a few pages of a novel. Count me in too for a porch visit!

**RickBeall** · July-14-13, 03:20 PM

Hi Sumas, I know from your posts on DetroitYes what a wonderful person you are. I wish the best for you and hope things work out. And it's nice how Marsha put things into perspective a bit.

I figure that when drugs move into a neighborhood, the drug dealers have an unfair advantage because they do not need to follow any laws. And a house is a sitting target. A couple bullets through the window and most people are ready to move out. That explains white and black flight. Some people, most people, just are not built for confrontations like that.

**sumas** · July-14-13, 06:00 PM

Thank you Rick, but I do need to say I can be quite evil.

There now appears to be 8 squatters. The music is currently subdued. But their buddies showed up with 3 cases of beer so doubt as the night goes on the music goes up [[started already) then fights start.Of course there is more to this story, I'll let "family" handle it.

I just really love my porch. Our neighbors, the best. We really do have a park bench on the berm for people to rest and sit on. We use it too!

We do have a big backyard, it looks sad because we were to do a Duggan at home then things changed on off etc. Funny truly. Guess we will sit out there for a few weeks til shit settles.

**marshamusic** · July-14-13, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

Thank you Rick, but I do need to say I can be quite evil.

There now appears to be 8 squatters. The music is currently subdued. But their buddies showed up with 3 cases of beer so doubt as the night goes on the music goes up [[started already) then fights start.Of course there is more to this story, I'll let "family" handle it.

I just really love my porch. Our neighbors, the best. We really do have a park bench on the berm for people to rest and sit on. We use it too!

We do have a big backyard, it looks sad because we were to do a Duggan at home then things changed on off etc. Funny truly. Guess we will sit out there for a few weeks til shit settles.

You do have a great porch - nice and deep and a bit cloistered, so that you can look out onto the street without being all out yourselves.

This situation seems like a great time to Do a Duggan - let him tell you what he'd do about THAT situation.

**rex** · July-17-13, 10:02 AM

how about mind your business? Are you trying to cause problems for yourself? Interest of self preservation. etc

**sumas** · July-17-13, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by rex

how about mind your business? Are you trying to cause problems for yourself? Interest of self preservation. etc

I am minding my business. I hold a position on our block club and also our street association. we have a delightful neighborhood and I have a vested interest in keeping it that way. I sit on numerous boards for east area coalitions.

Things have been tame since other neighbors also feel empowered to bitch. Remember, I said, almost everyone is related to everyone. The squatters are relatives that came in for a funeral and decided to stay. C lost his house to foreclosure and handed over keys. Grandma came through and evicted them. Go Grandma!

Frankly I don't care what others do but when they infringe on my serenity, yeah, I have a huge problem.

**rex** · July-17-13, 01:08 PM

I can appreciate wanting serenity. Im just suggesting when you are new to the block and neighbors give friendly advice perhaps they know something you dont. If the drug spot is inadvertently causing you grief imagine if they decided they wanted to cause you grief. If they thought you were a threat to their business. By all means carefully do your thing tho. I tend to worry about things like firebombs and being singled out and targeted by criminals. As far as the inside informant idea. My guess is it was coincidental. I doubt DPD shows up much for squatters, noise violations, or drug activity calls.

**Jimaz** · July-17-13, 01:20 PM

The Michigan law concerning police scanners was relaxed a few years ago. You no longer need permission from the State Police to operate one in a civilian vehicle but there are still other reasonable restrictions.

Here are some details: Michigan Compiled Laws section 750.508

**sumas** · July-20-13, 08:11 PM

I had thought our squatters were gone. Duh!!!

Remember this neighborhood is so interconnected. They have no utilities whatsoever. Someone we know vaguely,living there, asked for 3 buckets of water. We provided that.

Our thanks was someone/relative with a boom box in a van played really loud music from 3 to about 8. I can live with that just shut my front windows..

Weirder to me though was they kept singing "Green Acres" I guess that is some race commentary as we left or came home. Ours is a multi racial household so I can only assume they are more ignorant than I thought.