Car vs. Train = 4 dead in Canton Twp.

**rooms222** · July-10-09, 03:07 PM

I was a court clerk in a county in Illinois where there are lots of trains. Although this downstate county was not known as being friendly to the plaintiff, all of the biggest jury verdicts and settlements were when people got hit by a train and survived [[3-8 million dollars each).

Why? Because the aftermath of surviving as a brain damaged and physically broken person was so horrifying. These cases were almost always the clear fault of the driver [[and the driver was usually the survivor), but juries felt really sorry for the drooling, incontinent, mentally incompetent person that that same person's reckless driving had created, because they were late to their job at the cereal plant.........

**Thames** · July-10-09, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

But they can still say "no" when their kid -- who just had his license suspended -- wants to take the car out.

They can't tell him "no", if the car is in his name.

**Thames** · July-10-09, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Thames

As soon a person turns 18, their parents have no rights to check anything on them. Not their driving record, medical records, school records, nothing.

Originally Posted by bailey

quoth my pater familias "if you're in my house and on my insurance, you will abide by my rules."

If he was on his own..ok. But doesn't seem like he was. sure sounds like he was living at home.

That still doesn't give the parents any legal right to see any of his records, which was the point of my post.

**wolverine** · July-10-09, 03:29 PM

I highly doubt the car was in his name. That car and what I'm guessing the amount of insurance was is all the more reason.

They should be able to tell their kid "no" regardless. He's living under their roof. Until he's out of the house paying rent, car insurance, etc he can make his own reckless decisions.

Thames, your point is irrelevant, but thanks for the bit of information. It doesn't apply to this situation.

**dtowncitylover** · July-10-09, 03:38 PM

I watched the video. All I could think of was being one of his friends or his girlfriend [[umm...was she the 14 yr old?!) and screaming at him to slow down. Then...well we all know.

**Thames** · July-10-09, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

I highly doubt the car was in his name. That car and what I'm guessing the amount of insurance was is all the more reason.

They should be able to tell their kid "no" regardless. He's living under their roof. Until he's out of the house paying rent, car insurance, etc he can make his own reckless decisions.

Thames, your point is irrelevant, but thanks for the bit of information. It doesn't apply to this situation.

I was responding to Gsgeorge who posted that the parents can just say "no" when the 20 year old wants to drive the car.

If a 20 y/o owns the car, you can't tell them no.

BTW, I have 21 y/o that owns a Fusion. She bought it herself. Why do you highly doubt that it wasn't his car? It's certainly possible. She pays her own insurance. I know what it costs to insure one without guessing. What do you guess the insurance is?

Buy American · July-10-09, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

I wonder what sort of new technology could be used to prevent this sort of tragedy from occurring if we ever get up to speed with true bullet trains? Maybe the barriers that come up from the ground, preventing any passing? Bridges?

When do we say it's time to take responsibility for your own actions? Nothing short of a gated railroad track allowing access by swiping a card could have kept those kids off the tracks. This young adult knew better, I'm sure he was showing off his "driving skills", probably had the radio full blast and looked like he was speeding.

I don' think the families can sue Amtrack but some ambulance chasing lawyer will find a way to sue someone for negligence somewhere.

**wolverine** · July-10-09, 04:02 PM

If I'm not mistaken, it said in one of the articles [[either on Action 7 or one of the Detroit papers, his mother was the owner of the vehicle.

Regardless GsGeorge is making a point of what he would do in a functioning household regardless of what the law says.

You are constantly trying to prove your post. We get it. You are right. Yes, we know what the law says. Thank you. But whether the law said he could take the car out for a drive with friend doesn't seem to have helped the situation either way, has it?

**Meddle** · July-10-09, 04:29 PM

IF the driver was living at home and used the parents' car with their knowledge and they knew of his past record, the parents could be in for some serious legal problems.

Buy American · July-10-09, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

IF the driver was living at home and used the parents' car with their knowledge and they knew of his past record, the parents could be in for some serious legal problems.

Watch the lawyers start their feeding frenzy.

**Crystal** · July-10-09, 04:35 PM

When our boys [[now 19, 21, and 21) got their learner's permits and driver's licenses, the rule for the first year was no more than one other person in the car at a time.

We look back on how coordinated, athletic and smart all the boys were, yet how BAD their sense of time and distance was when driving.

Their driver's ed instructors used to say it takes five years to become a good driver.

**Downriviera** · July-10-09, 05:01 PM

I saw a picture in a magazine a while back of a railroad crossing down south that has a skull and crossbones that lights up and flashes when a train is approaching. There has never been a car/ train collision at that crossing.

Sludgedaddy · July-10-09, 05:23 PM

When my two kids gained four-wheel independence, I gave them a bit of "tough love" when it came to motoring advice. It may have helped that my profession gives me an occasional glimpse at severed body parts.

I explained that their reckless actions would result in a spot in their high school yearbooks, not as the class clown, valedictorian, most popular boy or girl, but they would have a special page devoted to them as "The Class Cadaver".

On the hopeful side, maybe footage of the grisly crash will provide footage for a remake of the Ohio State Police films shown in driver's class such as "Mechanized Death" etc. These "scare films" were almost gauranteed to make someone in the class vomit. Cool cars, dead greasers and plenty of carnage. A cinematic word to the wise, so to speak.

My condolences go out to the four innocent victims of this senseless accident.

The reckless driver, however, was described on his my space page, as being very cool by his friends in their homage to teen-age substance abuse. He is beyond cool now. He's cold.

Buy American · July-10-09, 06:37 PM

"He is beyond cool now. He's cold. "

That gave me the shivers and says it all!

**MrJones** · July-10-09, 08:46 PM

A guy from my High School was killed, alone at some tracks that had no gate, only lights.
A lot of us went to the tow-yard and saw his car, an early 70s station wagon and I could not believe how the driver's door of such a wide car could be pushed to within 12" of the passenger door.
I sometimes still get a chill crossing the tracks imagining a train barreling down.

**Novine** · July-10-09, 10:09 PM

If it's any solace to the families, death was probably instantaneous. If you saw close-up photos of the Focus on the front of the engine, it was flattened in a way that few cars outside of a junkyard ever are flattened. If he had been driving a few MPH faster or the train a few MPH slower, he would have made the crossing. In their terrible timing, they managed to get struck head on.

**ZRX Doug** · July-10-09, 10:42 PM

Actually, the car was struck just about dead-center in the passenger side..not that it much matters from the occupants POV..lateral accelleration from a dead stop to almost seventy miles per hour in practically zero time is WAY more than our frail human brains can handle.

Your brain's like a yolk & your skull is the shell..smack the egg hard enough and the yolk slams against the shell that's supposed to be protecting it. Zero to seventy mph in a millisecond or so will splatter the yolk pretty damned well, even if the shell is in a position to remain undamaged.
I'd say it's a safe bet to say that none of these young people suffered.

Sorry if the talk is getting dry & clinical..I've been racing cars & motorcycles for about three decades now, and these thoughts are in my head often, not just when a carload of kids loses a race with a train..
I've seen a lot of good people succumb to the effects of rapid accelleration & decelleration..at least in my friend's cases, they went in with their eyes open, knowing what could happen..at least four of these poor kids didn't have a clue, IMHO.

**Novine** · July-11-09, 12:29 AM

"Actually, the car was struck just about dead-center in the passenger side..not that it much matters from the occupants POV"

That is correct. I was trying to make the point that it was a direct hit, not a glancing blow, not that it would have made much difference. If the train had only clipped the car, it likely would have been thrown with such force that anyone who would have survived would have been horribly injured.

**reddog289** · July-11-09, 12:34 AM

After spending Thursday home sick I found out about this later. The tracks that this happened on is a block from my house.
The eerie part is that there were no trains for awhile, that was the part that made me think. The 17 year old future driver in my house just acted as it was BLAH BLAH ain,t gonna happen to me.
I myself having worked for the railroad for a shorttime can tell you that if you try to beat the train you lose. With that said I feel bad for all involved and hopefully someone will learn from this.

**Meddle** · July-11-09, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by reddog289

The 17 year old future driver in my house just acted as it was BLAH BLAH ain,t gonna happen to me.

I'm sure the now deceased driver was thinking the same thing.

Don't we all?

**Meddle** · July-11-09, 02:22 AM

http://freep.com/article/20090711/NE...ed-fatal-crash

**Meddle** · July-11-09, 02:32 AM

Thursday by a 530-ton Amtrak train as they tried to drive around crossing gates on Hannan Road in Canton.

Investigators estimate the Amtrak train was rolling at almost 70 m.p.h. when it slammed into the black Ford Fusion and dragged it for nearly a mile.

http://freep.com/article/20090710/NE...lives-are-lost

Ummm, lemmme see, 530 tons travelling at 70 MPH vs. Ford Fusion.

You know, all other comments aside, you almost have to believe in fate somehow. The timing had to be perfect - split second perfect for this car to get hit broadside. One second either way and they may not have been hit at all.

Hmmmmmmmmm.......

Blarf · July-11-09, 04:47 AM

This sound like a candidate for a Darwin award.

Think you can beat a train? Think again.

**MCP-001** · July-11-09, 09:34 AM

Lesseehere.

An active railroad crossing that was working property.

Another motorist who stopped for several seconds prior to the train crossing.

Someone driving with a suspended license getting him and his friends killed.

Stupidity should be painful!

**rjk** · July-11-09, 10:27 AM

The other 4 aren't totally innocent in all of this.
Even the mother who lost two sons had warned them to not get in this guys car.
Everything you read/hear about this guy indicates that he was a deluxe asshole.

The lesson for teenagers in all this shouldn't be to stop at railroad crossings because the overwhelming majority of them already follow the rules. The lesson should be to not get in a car driven by a known asshole.