Car vs. Train = 4 dead in Canton Twp.

**Mackinaw** · July-09-09, 11:47 PM

extremely sad, but extremely senseless behavior. a lot of fault, in a legal sense, should be put on the driver. utter recklessness. you don't go around vehicles to cross a red-light illegally...why would you do that when you know such a powerful machine is on its way?

while at-grade crossings are not an enviable thing to have in your infrastructure, where there are gates and they close in front of you, if you obey them, at the very worst the at-grade crossing is an inconvenience for those in a hurry. They don't have to be unsafe.

**grumpyoldlady** · July-10-09, 02:21 AM

The surveillance video from a nearby business showed an SUV stopped at the crossing for 17 seconds before it was passed on the left by the Ford Fusion with the kids in it that drove around the SUV and the crossing gate. Dumb! Dumb! Dumb!

**gumby** · July-10-09, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

My daughter is 16. If your daughter is anything like my daughter, she won't listen.

You're right. Why even try?
Great parenting, geez.

**vetalalumni** · July-10-09, 02:42 AM

Four lives , so sad! I pray.

**CountrySquire** · July-10-09, 06:38 AM

Yeesh so senseless! Especially since these Amtrak Trains are quick and short. Waiting for them to pass usually takes less then a minute's time.

**jt1** · July-10-09, 07:01 AM

At least I did grow up and live in Detroit at one time. I haven't been calling anyone names here either.
Some guys around here can't handle the truth.

I wasn't disputing that and I'm not really concerned if you have been calling people names or not. Let's review the comment I made:

1. I pointed out that your tasteless comments do nto represent detroit [[as you currently don't live here and a comment from a single person does not represent the citizenry of a city or region.
2. I told him the asshole comments were representative of you and only you. If you are worred about someone calling you names I would expect you to have a little more tact that joking about 4 kids killed in an accident. Sorry, but in this case the term asshole fits perfectly.

What does 'handling the truth' have to do with your insensitive jokes?

**Meddle** · July-10-09, 07:23 AM

There's been some discussion of the U.S. installing European style gates that drop from both sides, effectively blocking the road so you can't get past them.

That's countered by two main points;

Costs would nearly double.
Roads could be blocked for hours when the gates malfunction.

**ggores** · July-10-09, 07:39 AM

I wonder. When a tragedy such as this occurs, exactly WHAT are people "praying" for? For the families of the victims, the passengers on the train, and particularly the engineer of the train - what is there to be prayed for? Mercy? Ummmmm, better days ahead? Perhaps a winning scratch-off lottery ticket in they future? You know, something to kind of balance out the fucked-upness of what happened to those little boys n girls?

Again and again and again, apparently these youths were not properly parented in the more subtle survival skills of urban living. Adults give kids much more credit for being smart than they deserve. Younggins, for the most part, are little dummies and need guidance and instruction. Many will agree that we've been hammered all our live's about the dangers of miscalculation/perception, especially when it comes to railroad crossings.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-10-09, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

Okay - how would you design the crossing?

Grade Separation or Closing of crossing. Both have major impacts on the overall transportation system. Impacts include the cost, which will take away from other investments that could have better payoffs [[for example, signal or turning improvements at many 100's of locations could be done that would eliminate a lot of deaths elsewhere with the money, the cost would be minimal when packaged with a road preservation project); OR accessibility for emergency responders.

MDOT has an experimental crossing that is ironically not too far from this location, just a few miles away on the same railroad. http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,...0723--,00.html

**vetalalumni** · July-10-09, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by ggores

I wonder. When a tragedy such as this occurs, exactly WHAT are people "praying" for? For the families of the victims, the passengers on the train, and particularly the engineer of the train - what is there to be prayed for? Mercy? Ummmmm, better days ahead?

An excellent question.

**DocTerry** · July-10-09, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ggores

I wonder. When a tragedy such as this occurs, exactly WHAT are people "praying" for? For the families of the victims, the passengers on the train, and particularly the engineer of the train - what is there to be prayed for? Mercy? Ummmmm, better days ahead?

I don't know about others, but I pray for them to have the courage, comfort and other qualities/supports needed to go on. Why is that so difficult to do/understand? Or perhaps so easy to mock? Whatever one's faith/spirituality, it is a positive thing, and even if one is not a person of faith/spirituality, what harm do other's positive wishes do?

**Sandhouse** · July-10-09, 10:40 AM

As passenger-train speeds increase, future regulations may require closure of many street crossings, and equipping the remaining crossings with positive barriers - that is, barriers that can't be driven around or through. I believe in Plymouth township or somewhere downriver there is an experimental installation of such a barrier, that rises hydraulically up out of the pavement. The point of these barriers for high-speed trains is to prevent mass casualties among train passengers in high-speed derailments caused by auto crashes.

As a traffic-safety measure, installation of costly grade-crossing barriers is a waste of money. Crossing crashes occur so rarely that investment to prevent them diverts resources from other improvements, such as at road intersections, that would have a much higher safety return for drivers or pedestrians. But car/train crashes generate vivid visuals, so the media love to exploit them. This attracts politicians eager to spend to alleviate the "problem." Car-train crashes typically kill 10 or 12 people a year in Michigan, out of almost a thousand fatalities in most years, but the spending on grade crossings is out of proportion to the need.

If you want to pray for anybody, how about auto crash victims who die or are maimed without heart-rending media coverage?

**jcole** · July-10-09, 10:54 AM

If you want to pray for anybody, how about auto crash victims who die or are maimed without heart-rending media coverage?

Or the people looking out the train windows in the aftermath? I took a train to Colorado last year, and we got hung up in Chicago waiting for passengers from a train that had been delayed by a woman who had jumped on the tracks in front of it. They spent 5 hours waiting to get back on track while the police, train authorities and God knows who-all did their inspections of the scene. These people were traumatized and had to finish their vacations with the image of that burned into their minds. I guess the front end of the train was covered in a mist of viscera and blood. The train employees were temporarily relieved of duty and a new crew was brought on to replace them. Counselors were brought in. All because someone decided it would be a dramatic way to 'end it all'. Nice.

**jtf1972** · July-10-09, 11:11 AM

I wonder what sort of new technology could be used to prevent this sort of tragedy from occurring if we ever get up to speed with true bullet trains? Maybe the barriers that come up from the ground, preventing any passing? Bridges?

**lpg** · July-10-09, 11:42 AM

Saw the news at noon today. There is a video of the accident. The car zoomed past the white SUV stopped at the crossing. The driver had a suspended license. Also a bad driving record. He should have not even been on the road.

**catch22** · July-10-09, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Sandhouse

I believe in Plymouth township or somewhere downriver there is an experimental installation of such a barrier, that rises hydraulically up out of the pavement. The point of these barriers for high-speed trains is to prevent mass casualties among train passengers in high-speed derailments caused by auto crashes.

Ironically enough, the experimental barrier is located on this same line, a few miles west at the Denton Road crossing. MDOT has some info here:

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,...0723--,00.html

Buy American · July-10-09, 11:57 AM

After viewing the video of the incident, it is obvious that the young man driving the car [[who incidentally had a suspended license) didn't hesitate to go around the SUV, the guardrails, on to the tracks. Young adults think of themselves as being invincible and in this case, it turned tragic.

**DetroitPlanner** · July-10-09, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by catch22

Ironically enough, the experimental barrier is located on this same line, a few miles west at the Denton Road crossing. MDOT has some info here:

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,...0723--,00.html

Tsk tsk, Sister Mary 8th Grade shall strike you with her ruler!

**bailey** · July-10-09, 01:01 PM

After viewing the video of the incident, it is obvious that the young man driving the car [[who incidentally had a suspended license) didn't hesitate to go around the SUV, the guardrails, on to the tracks. Young adults think of themselves as being invincible and in this case, it turned tragic.

too bad he had to take 4 others with him.

http://www.myspace.com/crackfizzle

**Bigb23** · July-10-09, 02:17 PM

There should be an easy way for parents to check on drivers license status on their at home teenagers, who are probably on their insurance. This guy was nineteen and had his license suspended on July 2nd. Why wait for the mail on suspension notification ?

That video was horrific, he also was doing about sixty, and didn't even slow down.

And yes, I was that dumb at his age too.

**Gsgeorge** · July-10-09, 02:43 PM

The 20-y.o. driver of the car was clearly reckless. He was not shy about his drinking and drug habits. Browse the pics of him and his buds drinking & read his words and the comments from others -- his last update was "Mood: drunk"; one friend says "I love you Dan, I just wish we could smoke one last time!" and another "We had some great times dude. just save some brew for me man." This is really sad... but WTF? Why was this guy driving???

http://www.myspace.com/crackfizzle

Also, the gov't shouldn't do any more than it already has to prevent people from crossing the tracks when they shouldn't. A simple barrier and a warning is enough. If anyone is stupid enough to disobey the crossing gate then it is their fault. We should not lower our standards by pumping money into beefing up train crossing gates just for the stupidest and most irrational of individuals. Accidents like this don't happen often anyway.

2blocksaway · July-10-09, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

I wonder what sort of new technology could be used to prevent this sort of tragedy from occurring if we ever get up to speed with true bullet trains? Maybe the barriers that come up from the ground, preventing any passing? Bridges?

Brains maybe?

**Thames** · July-10-09, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bigb23

There should be an easy way for parents to check on drivers license status on their at home teenagers, who are probably on their insurance. This guy was nineteen and had his license suspended on July 2nd. Why wait for the mail on suspension notification ?

As soon a person turns 18, their parents have no rights to check anything on them. Not their driving record, medical records, school records, nothing.

**Gsgeorge** · July-10-09, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Thames

As soon a person turns 18, their parents have no rights to check anything on them. Not their driving record, medical records, school records, nothing.

But they can still say "no" when their kid -- who just had his license suspended -- wants to take the car out.

**bailey** · July-10-09, 03:07 PM

As soon a person turns 18, their parents have no rights to check anything on them. Not their driving record, medical records, school records, nothing.

quoth my pater familias "if you're in my house and on my insurance, you will abide by my rules."

If he was on his own..ok. But doesn't seem like he was. sure sounds like he was living at home.