Downtown has thousands of interns this summer

[emu steve]

Starting to resemble a college town which is the hope for Detroit that college students/graduates will want to gravitate to this big employment hub instead of some suburban office where at 5:00 it is time to get in the car and drive home.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Gilbert is excited by what he sees....

“There’s a massive, wildfire interest in Detroit,” Gilbert said. “Detroit sells.”

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2YRbeoXBX

[emu steve]

That’s impressed Title Source’s McConkey, a 21-year-old from White Lake.
“I’m getting to know the city a lot more,” she said. “I knew things were getting better but getting to actually experience it is awesome.”

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2YReAYLBo

[Chicago48]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Starting to resemble a college town which is the hope for Detroit that college students/graduates will want to gravitate to this big employment hub instead of some suburban office where at 5:00 it is time to get in the car and drive home.

Gilbert is excited by what he sees....

“There’s a massive, wildfire interest in Detroit,” Gilbert said. “Detroit sells.”

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2YRbeoXBX

Detroit is doing what NYC and Chicago have done for years, the difference is there is only ONE major university in Detroit -- WSU. There are a couple of Minor universities, but the big research univ is in Ann Arbor. Once Detroit brings more major universities to the city, THEN you will see growth, but one won't do it.
Also, Interns are temporary part time workers. When these kids stop working [[are they getting paid?) and start looking for work, they'll most likely leave the city, go to a big city or booming state like Minnesota, Utah, et al.

[michimoby]

Detroit is doing what NYC and Chicago have done for years, the difference is there is only ONE major university in Detroit -- WSU. There are a couple of Minor universities, but the big research univ is in Ann Arbor. Once Detroit brings more major universities to the city, THEN you will see growth, but one won't do it.
Also, Interns are temporary part time workers. When these kids stop working [[are they getting paid?) and start looking for work, they'll most likely leave the city, go to a big city or booming state like Minnesota, Utah, et al.

The other issue is this: no way are there 1,100 open positions for new college hires come 2014. It may be providing a sign of things to come, but it's a sign highlighting a destination that's hundreds of miles away.

I think a healthy indicator of Detroit's resurgence in drawing in a mobile young professional is when you see MBA graduates from HBS, Wharton, Chicago Booth, Ross, etc. making the move downtown in substantial numbers. Speaking from a Ross perspective alone, Detroit trails ten+ other cities in terms of the number of graduates it takes in. For a school in its own backyard, that's pretty deplorable.

[Eber Brock Ward]

The other issue is this: no way are there 1,100 open positions for new college hires come 2014. It may be providing a sign of things to come, but it's a sign highlighting a destination that's hundreds of miles away.

I think a healthy indicator of Detroit's resurgence in drawing in a mobile young professional is when you see MBA graduates from HBS, Wharton, Chicago Booth, Ross, etc. making the move downtown in substantial numbers. Speaking from a Ross perspective alone, Detroit trails ten+ other cities in terms of the number of graduates it takes in. For a school in its own backyard, that's pretty deplorable.

I personally know two Booth alums, one Northwestern Law alum, one UVa law alum, and one Sloan alum that have moved here in the past year. Each by choice, and only one of those four a Detroit [[or Metro) native.

And tons of folks from great undergrads, too.

The problem is one of housing supply, rather than demand to move down here. Beyond those above, I know other folks that want to "return home" from NY and Chicago that can't find anything to either rent [[or buy at a price that would appraise) in any of the "7.2 square miles."

[michimoby]

I personally know two Booth alums, one Northwestern Law alum, one UVa law alum, and one Sloan alum that have moved here in the past year. Each by choice, and only one of those four a Detroit [[or Metro) native

So you know five people with those credentials? Note that I said "substantial".

Five of the eleven tenants in my three-unit building in Brooklyn have those credentials.

Not discounting your opinion -- but I was working at a firm in Detroit where everyone had that pedigree, yet only two of the 30+ members of the firm lived in the city proper. And this was in the midst of Broderick taking reservations. I made my case very clear to my colleagues that the city was safe, I enjoyed my lifestyle, etc. etc...

The issue had nothing to do with neither supply nor demand. Matter of fact, most of them didn't even spend their weekends in Detroit, opting instead to spend time with their friends in other cities. But I'd say the momentum has [[slightly) shifted toward a greater acceptance of downtown Detroit as a place to live.

[corktownyuppie]

So you know five people with those credentials? Note that I said "substantial".

Five of the eleven tenants in my three-unit building in Brooklyn have those credentials.

Not discounting your opinion -- but I was working at a firm in Detroit where everyone had that pedigree, yet only two of the 30+ members of the firm lived in the city proper. And this was in the midst of Broderick taking reservations. I made my case very clear to my colleagues that the city was safe, I enjoyed my lifestyle, etc. etc...

The issue had nothing to do with neither supply nor demand. Matter of fact, most of them didn't even spend their weekends in Detroit, opting instead to spend time with their friends in other cities. But I'd say the momentum has [[slightly) shifted toward a greater acceptance of downtown Detroit as a place to live.

I can't speak for the larger demographic trends, only anecdotally. The elite MBAs that I've known frequenting downtown were either automotive, on contract with a downtown employer like BCBS, or were at Deloitte and PWC, both with major offices downtown.

There's definitely a shift, as my next roommate is a PSU grad from out-of-state working for a major logistics company and doing 12-month rotations at various client-sites. Another candidate was a recent PhD candidate in higher ed down in Florida trying to get into admin at UDM or WSU. 5 years ago, those people weren't even looking downtown, they were solid Royal Oak prospects.

You are right though, Detroit isn't a magnet for the high-caliber and elite [[yet).

[Eber Brock Ward]

So you know five people with those credentials? Note that I said "substantial".

Five of the eleven tenants in my three-unit building in Brooklyn have those credentials.

Not discounting your opinion -- but I was working at a firm in Detroit where everyone had that pedigree, yet only two of the 30+ members of the firm lived in the city proper. And this was in the midst of Broderick taking reservations. I made my case very clear to my colleagues that the city was safe, I enjoyed my lifestyle, etc. etc...

The issue had nothing to do with neither supply nor demand. Matter of fact, most of them didn't even spend their weekends in Detroit, opting instead to spend time with their friends in other cities. But I'd say the momentum has [[slightly) shifted toward a greater acceptance of downtown Detroit as a place to live.

I do note that you said "substantial." But until the supply issue resolves itself, we are at saturation with respect to how substantial the movement can become, and that's my point.

BTW, how long ago did you move? You seem disgruntled because you moved just as things were starting, as evidenced by what you post here and by how you talk shit about the city in other venues [[unless someone else is posting under "michimoby").

I ask that because the most substantial changes have taken place over the last year or so. Campus Martius this summer vs. last is like night and day. Same with the Riverwalk at any given day or time.

I stand by my point that it's a supply issue, even if we disagree on how much pent up demand there is.

I suppose we'll know the answer as more and more mid- to higher-level buildings come online [[Whitney, new Merchant's Row, etc.).

[emu steve]

Detroit is doing what NYC and Chicago have done for years, the difference is there is only ONE major university in Detroit -- WSU. There are a couple of Minor universities, but the big research univ is in Ann Arbor. Once Detroit brings more major universities to the city, THEN you will see growth, but one won't do it.
Also, Interns are temporary part time workers. When these kids stop working [[are they getting paid?) and start looking for work, they'll most likely leave the city, go to a big city or booming state like Minnesota, Utah, et al.

Interns are what they are, presumably short term employees.

They will be replaced by other 'presumably short term employees', but that isn't the point.

The turnover doesn't matter.

It is having a couple thousand young 'warm bodies' [[have to be careful how I phrase it) there that matters.

I think the point is that young college students can enliven an area.

[BasementBeat]

Interns are what they are, presumably short term employees.

They will be replaced by other 'presumably short term employees', but that isn't the point.

The turnover doesn't matter.

It is having a couple thousand young 'warm bodies' [[have to be careful how I phrase it) there that matters.

I think the point is that young college students can enliven an area.

Pretty much.
This will certainly be an instant + consistent boost to vendors, restaurants and bars downtown. Which is nothing to sneeze at.

[nain rouge]

The interns would probably enliven the area more if they were paid [[or paid more than a token amount) and didn't have to pay their colleges to work for little to nothing.

[Cliffy]

The interns would probably enliven the area more if they were paid [[or paid more than a token amount) and didn't have to pay their colleges to work for little to nothing.

I bet those interns are making $12 hour and above.

[casscorridor]

Detroit is doing what NYC and Chicago have done for years, the difference is there is only ONE major university in Detroit -- WSU. There are a couple of Minor universities, but the big research univ is in Ann Arbor. Once Detroit brings more major universities to the city, THEN you will see growth, but one won't do it.
Also, Interns are temporary part time workers. When these kids stop working [[are they getting paid?) and start looking for work, they'll most likely leave the city, go to a big city or booming state like Minnesota, Utah, et al.

I agree. Detroit needs a second major research university. Perhaps this could come about through a consortium of state universities that already have a presence in the city such as Michigan State, University of Michigan, Grand Valley State and Central Michigan.

[emu steve]

I agree. Detroit needs a second major research university. Perhaps this could come about through a consortium of state universities that already have a presence in the city such as Michigan State, University of Michigan, Grand Valley State and Central Michigan.

Why?

Doesn't the internship program work relatively independent of the number and location of the universities?

Isn't it the opposite of a Detroit kid doing an internship in NYC or D.C. or somewhere else?

One of my boyhood friends was an engineering student who did an internship in I believe Montana.

It would be nice for kids from outside Michigan to come to downtown and do an internship.

[iheartthed]

Detroit is doing what NYC and Chicago have done for years, the difference is there is only ONE major university in Detroit -- WSU. There are a couple of Minor universities, but the big research univ is in Ann Arbor. Once Detroit brings more major universities to the city, THEN you will see growth, but one won't do it.
Also, Interns are temporary part time workers. When these kids stop working [[are they getting paid?) and start looking for work, they'll most likely leave the city, go to a big city or booming state like Minnesota, Utah, et al.

I don't think that it really matters that the schools be located in Detroit's borders. Sure, it helps but it's not a deal breaker. Seattle and San Francisco also don't have multiples of major universities within their borders and those places attract outsiders pretty well.

The U of M is close enough to Detroit that if Detroit were an attractive urban center it would easily pulls in graduates from there. Detroit would do the same with MSU too since there isn't any other major city in the state.

ETA my own two cents: What Detroit really needs to attract are foreign immigrants. All of these yuppie magnets that Detroit desperately wants to copy were foreign immigrant magnets first.

[dmike76]

Chicago48, gotta start somewhere.

[sumas]

Lots of churches do intern programs. Many interns would like to stay.

Guess what no jobs.

Do enjoy the young folks that come through though and they do make a difference

[Hamtragedy]

I've noticed the influx of Detroit "summer-vacationers" over the last couple years. You can usually tell by early June at Eastern Market that there's a bunch of people you "ain't never seen before." After talking up a conversation with a few of them [[usually by a stroller or cart jam, or in line for avocados), I'm amazed at two things
1. they look so damn young
2. when asked the question "you're not one of those people here for summer break too are you?" they are shocked at how recognizable they really are.

[Baselinepunk]

BTW - - praying for the MBA's to come and save us is really a silly thing to wish for.

[corktownyuppie]

BTW - - praying for the MBA's to come and save us is really a silly thing to wish for.

When Detroit was a powerhouse, one of the top 5 US Cities by population, and the State of Michigan was one of the wealthiest states in the union, Detroit was home to the some of the most innovative, world class financial institutions in the world. College graduates from all around the country would compete for highly sought after positions at Detroit Bank and Trust. The Guardian building was known as the "Cathedral of Finance".

If you want to call MBAs silly, I won't argue with you on that point. My only argument is that the world has changed and we [[Detroit) haven't changed with it. Someone else posted about how 20 years from now there will be a major economic crisis as the population further divides into unskilled- to low-skilled workers and then the knowledge-based workers and the robots/machines which replaced all of the low-skilled workers.

I'm reluctant to use the dramatic terms that he/she used, but the sentiment is accurate. For 50 years we have transitioned from a muscle-based economy to brain-based economy, and not only has Detroit failed to change with it...but culturally speaking, many are people deploying a strategy of fighting the change instead of adapting to change.

You're right that MBAs aren't going to save us. But what will save us is changing our culture so that MBAs are assets instead of enemies.

[belleislerunner]

It would be very rare for any financial service company to get away with not paying interns. There are six criteria the Dept of Labor uses, at a minimum, to evaluate whether an intern can go unpaid. Most financial service firms would quickly fail #4 [[The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern) because they would bill out at X, while paying their intern X/20. [[i.e. immediate benefit to the P/L). It would be much more common for nonprofit/social service type places to get away with unpaid labor as they might be able to argue they can't clearly identify how the work of the intern benefits them. I dare you to publicly identify one financial service company [[e.g. public accounting firm, public law firm, financial service company) that does not pay interns for said reasons.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ships-illegal/

[iheartthed]

It would be very rare for any financial service company to get away with not paying interns. There are six criteria the Dept of Labor uses, at a minimum, to evaluate whether an intern can go unpaid. Most financial service firms would quickly fail #4 [[The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern) because they would bill out at X, while paying their intern X/20. [[i.e. immediate benefit to the P/L). It would be much more common for nonprofit/social service type places to get away with unpaid labor as they might be able to argue they can't clearly identify how the work of the intern benefits them. I dare you to publicly identify one financial service company [[e.g. public accounting firm, public law firm, financial service company) that does not pay interns for said reasons.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ships-illegal/

Not only do they get paid, they get paid at the same rate as an entry level professional in the same company. I'd be surprised if any intern at a financial service company was being paid less than $25/hour, even in Detroit.

[Baselinepunk]

The six criteria is broken all the time. Your right; not for profits / public have dabbled in this practice as well.

Just a cursory search on the google/bing:

"On Feb. 1, the law firm Outten & Golden filed a class-action lawsuit against the Hearst Corporation, which owns Harper’s Bazaar, on behalf of Wang and any other unpaid and underpaid intern who worked at the company over the past six years. The lawsuit alleges that, among other things, Hearst violated federal and state labor laws by having Wang work as many as 55 hours a week without compensation.

Read more: http://business.time.com/2012/05/02/...#ixzz2YYSZj6kJ"

"Along with the increased use of unpaid interns, there has also been an increase in litigation brought in both the entertainment and publishing industries by individuals who claim to have been misclassified as interns when they should have, instead, been classified as employees. This type of high-profile litigation has highlighted the broad ranging issues/land mines associated with employers using unpaid interns."

http://www.akerman.com/documents/res.asp?id=1707


"Internships are legitimate and within the bounds of labor laws if they meet FLSA's six criteria. However, there are cases where not all six of them were met which resulted in law violations such as replacing or displacing existing full-time employees with former interns. The widespread opinion is that despite the existing labor law some employers do exploit interns independent of academic level, and this is induced by high unemployment and a poor state of the economy. Additionally, some companies are not using internships the way they are intended. Internships are supposed to be recruiting pipelines to bring in new talent. Instead they are being used as a way to free labor where employers are cycling through interns without any intent to hire them on a full-time basis. "



http://www.investopedia.com/articles...nternships.asp


So, while it's neat that all of those kiddies are hanging out downtown; it's just more window dressing for PR sake. And with the huge rise in rent downtown -- these kids can't afford to live down there.

[belleislerunner]

Interns actually make sense from a business perspective and an employee development perspective. Let's use a public accounting firm as an example. If you work on the tax side, you are most busy from Jan-April - so if you hire your interns to work those four months, you can hire them at an attractive rate [[e.g. $20/hr) and pay them time and half for overtime. The interns benefit from getting hands on training/experience under pressure and an attractive pay. When it's time for a full time job - they already have experience and know what a job entails. An employee gets the benefit of added staff during the busiest time without the expense of benefits/401[[k). Furthermore, the company doesn't have to lay off workers every May 1 and bring them back in January, decreasing the morale of the full time workers. The city gets the benefit of interns bringing their suburban tax dollars and spending them on shopping/dining/entertainment/gas etc in the city. Many of these interns [[i.e. Quicken) are housed in the WSU dorms over the summer so it gives them exposure to city life, city living. Which helps to desensitize them to many of their preconceived notions about Detroit. Other friends/relatives come and visit them in the city - thus breaking down more barriers/spending more money. It's a great productive cycle.

[TexasT]

Yes, I could imagine that most grads working in the 'burbs wouldn't call the city home. I wouldn't even consider working in the 'burbs - I'd imagine a Troy office is a bit self-selecting against those who vastly prefer a city [[I know few downtown Detroiters who work in the burbs, and knew few Chicagoans who worked in the burbs when I lived there, although it wasn't unheard of).

That being said, I think it's a bit of a moot point since I disagree with your premise that the turning point so to speak will be when top MBAs flock to the city. Detroit isn't top 10 in wealth, population, or GDP, so it's not surprising that it isn't top 5 or 10 in attracting top MBAs, which is where it sounds like you think it should be [[?). That's not really my expectation when we come out of the other side either...I guess it depends on your perspective though. I'm not really comparing Detroit to Chicago or NYC in terms of how well it attracts Wharton grads and the like.

I think the turning point will be when it starts attracting more college grads period. When it won't be a social experiment or "urban pioneering" [[as I was accused of when I moved here end of last summer) to live here.