Wayne State and their never ending tuition increases

[belleislerunner]

So it looks like the BOG from WSU will vote tomorrow to adopt a sizable tuition increase yet again. My guess it will be just shy of double digits [[e.g. 9.6%) http://www.freep.com/article/2013062...ition-increase

The trend in unsustainable spending between WSU and Detroit is bothersome. Leadership at WSU, based off the article, has adopted the same mentality as Detroit [[let's blame Lansing for all our issues) instead of fixing the structural and legacy issues. Who cares that your 10 year graduation rate isn't even 50% when you're being evaluated on a 6 year rate. So the reality is that the state gives you less money - deal with it - instead of whining about how you can't make cuts.

I think many colleges [[including WSU) feel entitled to raise prices every year thinking there is no breaking point. Presidents come in making 500K/year for 2-5 years and have no incentive to not "rock the boat" so the school glories in a new research building while spending itself into bankruptcy. The problem is WSU customers [[students) aren't like other Michigan college customers. Univ of Michigan's incoming class was 43% out of state students. They're coming from money and will pay full price. Michigan State appeals to students from accross the state. WSU attracts 75+% of students from SE Michigan. Many are first generation college kids strugging to get a degree. That unending demand of resources on a financially strained student is not limitless. Soon there won't be a justifable cost benefit anlysis of a high school senior choosing a D2 school in Midtown over a D1 school in Auburn Hills.

Sure there are centers of excellence [[medicine, law, engineering) that bring in research dollars to WSU - but it's really time to take the axe to departments/faculty in the remaining departments. Why do we even need foreign language departments at WSU? What marketable skill is learning Spanish, specifically at WSU, going to provide that Macomb or WCCC couldn't provide better? Or art history, or gender studies, or English, or liberal arts. Or half of their degrees.

I think one of the best near term outcomes is students revolt over the hikes in the near term with their feet and transfer to OU while the incoming freshman class decreases substantially. Enrollment could fall from 30K to a 22-25K range. That would force structural/legacy issues to be addressed immediately. Why is any new hire entitled to a pension in 2013? Enrollment could trick back up once it becomes managable - but aside from the location - it's getting harder and harder to justify the cost of a WSU undergraduate degree.

Coming from a guy who got one.

[guito13]

Man, I better finish up my MBA sooner than later....5 classes to go!

Right now its about 2200 a class with all the fees!

[Wesley Mouch]

You don't want tuition hikes? Then stop student loans. Once students can't afford schools, the schools will have to spend responsibly.

Schools are basically increasing their infrastructure and costs to best utilize the increased money available because students can take out loans.

Why should students finance school construction and wage increases above the prevailing wages of the market?

[ghettopalmetto]

You don't want tuition hikes? Then stop student loans. Once students can't afford schools, the schools will have to spend responsibly.

Schools are basically increasing their infrastructure and costs to best utilize the increased money available because students can take out loans.

Why should students finance school construction and wage increases above the prevailing wages of the market?

I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and assume you didn't pay for a college degree.

[Baselinepunk]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and assume you didn't pay for a college degree.

LOL!!!! Didn't the party that hates big government / government regulation pass legislation limiting the amount of colleges and universities can raise on the backs of the student body? Glad this is my last class. With the party of "nope, nadda" obstructing anything and everything in Congress, student loan rates will now double as well. This is in addition to the party of "nope, nadda" pass national legislation placing an additional 1% on student loans as part of the deficit reduction act. Thanks again, Georgie Poo! The University system will collapse under it's own weight; places like WSU don't stand a chance. That is unless they hack off about 30% of their administration -- yes I think it is at least that top heavy. While we're at, let's cut off Reid's Emeritus status, his perks and his 300,000 salary +.

[Det_ard]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and assume you didn't pay for a college degree.

I'll take a shot in the dark and assume you never studied economics or business.

[Wesley Mouch]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and assume you didn't pay for a college degree.

Brilliant. You're right, I didn't pay -- scholarship did the trick. Regardless of that, the cost in those dark ages was affordable -- it was before student loans allowed the schools to raise tuition.

You don't see the connection, do you? Student loans are a significant factor in high tuition, IMO. I'd like to see a study of correlating student loans outstanding against tuitions.

While on this topic, do you think health care got cheaper after the UAW won [[significantly) free health care?

Cause -> Effect. Not of course sole factor.

[ghettopalmetto]

Brilliant. You're right, I didn't pay -- scholarship did the trick. Regardless of that, the cost in those dark ages was affordable -- it was before student loans allowed the schools to raise tuition.

You don't see the connection, do you? Student loans are a significant factor in high tuition, IMO. I'd like to see a study of correlating student loans outstanding against tuitions.

While on this topic, do you think health care got cheaper after the UAW won [[significantly) free health care?

Cause -> Effect. Not of course sole factor.

Might as well get rid of mortgages, then. They just make housing way too expensive.

What's your alternative--eliminate student loans and thus ensure that higher education becomes the strict province of the wealthy? Or are you going to argue some unsubstantiated economic voodoo bullshit?

You're aware that Wayne State, as a public university, has a budget that is very much public. You're welcome to review it anytime you want. Then you can tell us exactly how "overpaid" all those state employees are....

[JBMcB]

Might as well get rid of mortgages, then. They just make housing way too expensive.

Were you sleeping through the real estate bubble? The government artificially kept lending rates low, housing prices shot up. Float the rate and housing prices stabilize where they should be. Same situation with student loans - the misuse/overuse of artificially low rates is pushing up prices. This is pretty basic economics.

Then you can tell us exactly how "overpaid" all those state employees are....

When I went to WSU I paid my way through working minimum wage jobs through the school year, then full time in the summer. The campus hadn't changed significantly since my mom went in the 70's - it was pretty shabby, but I went to learn, not appreciate post-modern architecture.

A decade later and WSU is full of shiny new buildings and properties, and tuition is more than double. It's not hard to figure out where the money is going.

[Justin SOD]

I'm currently a student at Wayne State and received an e-mail today stating there would be an 8.9% tuition increase. As someone going back to school for a second career, increases this big definitely make me second guess my decision to return to/stay in school. Already looking at $100,000 in debt upon graduation at the current rates....

[firstandten]

BOG Kim Trent gives her explanation "I agonized over the decision to vote for an 8.9 percent tuition increase for Wayne State University undergraduate students for FY 2014 and I want to explain to you why I supported it. Lansing has withdrawn support for higher education for many years and our state appropriation for 2014 is the same as it was for 1989, not adjusted for inflation. Meanwhile, WSU’s tuition rate has been artificially ...low when compared with Michigan’s two other high activity research universities, MSU and UM. Because of cuts in state funding, declining enrollments and other factors, the university would face massive cuts beyond the $19 million we have already cut from our FY 2014 budget without this increase. In fact, we've cut $50 million over the past three budget cycles"

[noise]

Meanwhile, WSU’s tuition rate has been artificially ...low when compared with Michigan’s two other high activity research universities, MSU and UM.

This is ultimately the comparison by which they're operating, as they're the only 3 universities in this category in the state. Universities serve more functions than teaching undergraduate students and those functions often cost money. The general public often has a pretty myopic view of the role of "college", not understanding or acknowledging the differences.

If the students wanted [[and would enroll) in a school that offered no amenities, I wonder how much tuition could decrease. Unfortunately, that's not what sells a university, given the interest incoming students and their parents have during orientation and tours.

[Bham1982]

Meanwhile, WSU’s tuition rate has been artificially ...low when compared with Michigan’s two other high activity research universities, MSU and UM.

But why does WSU need to have similar tuition as U-M or MSU? WSU isn't as prestigious [[generally speaking), doesn't have the same endowment, doesn't have the same proportion of non-Michigan students, and has a very different role and student population.

Generally speaking, WSU serves more working class, first generation college students, usually commuters, and often of immigrant stock. It isn't filled with out-of-state, full tuition paying kids from Connecticut or Long Island or wherever like Michigan. It doesn't have a multi-billion endowment, an army of wealthy donors, or an enormously involved alumni base.

WSU is a good school, and has some particularly strong graduation programs and noted research capabilities, but cannot hope to justify tuition increases by looking to Ann Arbor.

[Cliffy]

Actually to be honest, its not that bad in comparison to other schools in the area. You're talking 340 a credit hour for freshman and soph and 400 per credit hour for junior and senior. Very close to Oakland U.

[Danny]

When I was a student in Wayne State U. It was a school in the middle in the ghetto! The WSU Board of Directors wants their campus to be like Harvard and attract some young professionals rather then some fail Detroit Public Student, hard and innovative working Arabs from Dearborn and some East Indians from some slums of Mumbai.

Over that years when art culture became pop culture, and our government is cutting money to our academic institutions, tuition increases will have to do in order to save their programs and prove government that these kids will be learned and seeking regional jobs. So get used to rising costs. Its time for kids and parents to plan for their future and prepare for the worst. That will be their fate!

[firstandten]

Ultimately universities will need to find a way to condense degree programs by a year or more so that students aren't taking unnecessary classes. The way these programs are set up, the classes and prerequisites needed has turned education into one big money grab. Students getting into six figure student loan debt because they are trying to do the right thing and get ahead in life. So while I can understand WSU need to stay solvent, the entire system needs reform.

[Novine]

"Were you sleeping through the real estate bubble? The government artificially kept lending rates low, housing prices shot up. Float the rate and housing prices stabilize where they should be."

Have to love this kind of pseudo-economics. Interest rates today are lower than they were for most of the bubble period and have been kept down by the actions of the Fed. We've seen an entire cycle of boom, bust and re-inflation and yet people want to make claims like this.

[48009]

Wayne's undergrad student base is a bunch kids and non-traditional students who don't make any money, qualify for max pell grants and gov loans [["What's a tuition hike mean when you don't even know the rate on your gov loans?"), don't understand compound interest and have no other alternative besides WSU. Oakland would probably accept them, so would UM-Dearborn, but then they'd have to drive a half hour each way. UD doesn't want 2.0 students. What I'm trying to say is that most of the student body has no other option, nor do they even understand how much they're throwing away on the poor excuse of an education they receive there.

Don't get me started on their med school potentially losing it's accreditation.

[drjeff]

Wayne's undergrad student base is a bunch kids and non-traditional students who don't make any money, qualify for max pell grants and gov loans [["What's a tuition hike mean when you don't even know the rate on your gov loans?"), don't understand compound interest and have no other alternative besides WSU. Oakland would probably accept them, so would UM-Dearborn, but then they'd have to drive a half hour each way. UD doesn't want 2.0 students. What I'm trying to say is that most of the student body has no other option, nor do they even understand how much they're throwing away on the poor excuse of an education they receive there.

Don't get me started on their med school potentially losing it's accreditation.

I'd like to get you started, since I'm on the faculty of the med school and there is absolutely no chance we are losing accreditation. So what the hell are you insinuating?

Also, while there is a serious problem on main campus with students who are not prepared to do college level work when they arrive, it's ridiculous to claim that the education undergrads receive is substandard. There are excellent faculty in all the WSU schools. There are also excellent students.

[48009]

I'd like to get you started, since I'm on the faculty of the med school and there is absolutely no chance we are losing accreditation. So what the hell are you insinuating?

Also, while there is a serious problem on main campus with students who are not prepared to do college level work when they arrive, it's ridiculous to claim that the education undergrads receive is substandard. There are excellent faculty in all the WSU schools. There are also excellent students.

I don't need to expand on the med school rumors. You said they're unsubstantiated. O.K.

Bright kids don't want to be in classes with completely idiots--nor should they pay university tuition to share space with people barely fit for junior college classes. The undergrad problem ruins the main campus, and is pervasive in that it bleeds into the rep of the other programs at WSU, which also have their own issues.

[drjeff]

By the way, WSU receives more NIH research funding than MSU and the med school has a higher residency match rate than either MSU or UM despite being more than twice as large. Yeah, it really sucks though.

[48009]

The six-year graduation rate among first-time freshmen was just 26.4 percent in 2011...its worst year this century, according to data from the WSU Office of Budget, Planning and Analysis and the U.S. Department of Education's National Center for Education Statistics.

But it improved to 28.1 percent his second year, and administrators hope by August to reach a 32 percent completion rate for the 2012-13 academic year. That would return Wayne State to the range where it hovered for much of the previous decade -- but still at the back of the pack among Michigan's 15 public universities, according to the other schools' data submitted to NCES.

In short, it's the worst 4-year university in the state, where approx 3/4 of the students on campus are there for refund checks.

[firstandten]

In short, it's the worst 4-year university in the state, where approx 3/4 of the students on campus are there for refund checks.

In fairness to Wayne State this is a part of its urban mission that other Michigan schools aren't bound by. A lot of the problem is that todays urban student is so ill-prepared for college that all of the remedial courses that Wayne can offer will only make a dent, all the while the student loan debt goes up and up. If Wayne wanted to get its graduation rate up it could deny entry to these students tell them to go to WCCC then try and get in. That however would create a backlash that would look bad on WSU

[48009]

If Wayne wanted to get its graduation rate up it could deny entry to these students tell them to go to WCCC then try and get in. That however would create a backlash that would look bad on WSU

Ha! They don't want people going to community college, they want all the $$$.

[drjeff]

In fairness to Wayne State this is a part of its urban mission that other Michigan schools aren't bound by. A lot of the problem is that todays urban student is so ill-prepared for college that all of the remedial courses that Wayne can offer will only make a dent, all the while the student loan debt goes up and up. If Wayne wanted to get its graduation rate up it could deny entry to these students tell them to go to WCCC then try and get in. That however would create a backlash that would look bad on WSU

WSU did increase their admission requirements in the past year. That led to a decreased enrollment, which led to decreased revenue, which led to the increase in tuition that is about to happen for 2013-14. The republicans who run the state do not like WSU, probably because of its location. They're busy throwing money at Grand Valley, which really is a third rate school, because it's in right wing stronghold western Michigan.