Plans unveiled for $650M Red Wings arena, entertainment district in Detroit

**artds** · June-19-13, 01:24 PM

UPDATE: Renderings Released July 20, 2014
With the release of the renderings discussion of this topic will continue at the new thread:
Ilitch Announces Huge Plans For Red Wings Arena Project - Renderings Released

The announcement of the new rendering was first cited on this thread. Click here to jump to those posts, after which this thread was closed to further posting.

----------------------------------------------------------
Original June-19-13, 02:24 PM Starting Post follows:
Detroit — Plans for a $650 million Red Wings hockey arena and entertainment district are being unveiled Wednesday before the city’s development arm.

More...

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Wgi4aH9T

**Eber Brock Ward** · June-19-13, 01:25 PM

TERRIBLE!

No residential.
A big ass parking garage.
Only 35k ft^2 of retail.
And a bit over 100k ft^2 of office.

Just terrible. Might as well be sprawly, too.

**artds** · June-19-13, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

TERRIBLE!

No residential.

Just terrible. Might as well be sprawly, too.

"Under the concept proposed by Ilitch Holdings, the new hockey arena or multipurpose events center would anchor a 35-acre downtown district featuring sports, entertainment, stores and housing..."

**Eber Brock Ward** · June-19-13, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by artds

"Under the concept proposed by Ilitch Holdings, the new hockey arena or multipurpose events center would anchor a 35-acre downtown district featuring sports, entertainment, stores and housing..."

You have to read between the lines. He is not obligating himself to anything beyond the stadium, the parking garage, and about 150k square feet of retail and office.

The housing and all the stuff we got excited about are simply aspirational at this point, and he's not bound to do it. He already got his money/subsidy, and has a bad track record.

Needless to say, I'm not optimistic about how it will end up.

**DetroitPlanner** · June-19-13, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

You have to read between the lines. He is not obligating himself to anything beyond the stadium, the parking garage, and about 150k square feet of retail and office.

The housing and all the stuff we got excited about are simply aspirational at this point, and he's not bound to do it. He already got his money/subsidy, and has a bad track record.

Needless to say, I'm not optimistic about how it will end up.

Technically it is still mixed-use even without residential. It will be serviced by M-1 and several DDOT and SMART bus lines. You wanted development along Woodward due to the rail line? Well here it is!

**Eber Brock Ward** · June-19-13, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Technically it is still mixed-use even without residential. It will be serviced by M-1 and several DDOT and SMART bus lines. You wanted development along Woodward due to the rail line? Well here it is!

Yeah, but quotes from late last and early this year included a residential component.

Now it's "could" include. Nice. We gave away the subsidy.

That said, I'd like to see the MOU that everyone's considering.

How does it require residential, if at all? And how is "residential" scoped out? Is it just simply "residential", or does it require a certain density/scale?

How can we enforce it if surface lots remain or he fails to produce? If the DDA money is paying off its own bonds, the proceeds of which already went to the project, we obviously can't claw back from Olympia. Does it include a provision that denies the leased/concession premises to the Wings if Olympia fails in its development responsibilities?

And so on. As always, the devil is in the details. I'm obviously not optimistic, in that I expect to see fancy renderings and what not relatively soon, but expect to see no more than what Olympia/Ilitch is absolutely obligated to perform, with a useful enforcement mechanism.

**artds** · June-19-13, 01:30 PM

M Live is live-blogging the DDA meeting...

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi..._river_default

**Danny** · June-19-13, 01:27 PM

After the new stadium is completed, it will be called LITTLE CAESAR'S AREA. It won't be named under Joe Louis.

**Honky Tonk** · June-19-13, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

After the new stadium is completed, it will be called LITTLE CAESAR'S AREA. It won't be named under Joe Louis.

Illitchland. Thanx, taxpayers!

**TexasT** · June-19-13, 01:44 PM

Jackson: surrounding the arena will be "urban feel, with urban density" - mixed use developments, etc.

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi..._river_default

**Bham1982** · June-19-13, 01:45 PM

Geez, only 300 million in taxpayer dollars for another Comerica-style suburban design?

Why not have us pay for the whole thing? Lord knows we're swimming in dough here in Metro Detroit.

**Spartan** · June-19-13, 01:56 PM

That's a lot of public funding... I thought it'd be closer to 70/30.

**iheartthed** · June-19-13, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan

That's a lot of public funding... I thought it'd be closer to 70/30.

And hardly a word of protest will be said. But if you try to build a rail transit line for the same dollar amount then that's just derided as a waste of money.

**rb336** · June-19-13, 07:37 PM

I gets rid of one of the biggest gaps between downtown and midtown.

So what happens when the Lions, Wings and Tigers all play on the same day? [[tigers late in world series, early wings game, etc.)

**emu steve** · June-20-13, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

I gets rid of one of the biggest gaps between downtown and midtown.

So what happens when the Lions, Wings and Tigers all play on the same day? [[tigers late in world series, early wings game, etc.)

George Jackson probably throws a big party.

Seriously, I wonder about Tigers parking during the time when the surface parking on Woodward is cleared but before a parking garage is built.

All of those parking spots on Woodward from the Fisher to around Temple will be gone.

I assume folks will just park behind the Fox.

**Zacha341** · June-20-13, 04:52 AM

Could that happen? I'm not into sports but it seems baseball goes on forever re. how long their season goes...

Originally Posted by rb336

So what happens when the Lions, Wings and Tigers all play on the same day? [[tigers late in world series, early wings game, etc.)

**emu steve** · June-20-13, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Could that happen? I'm not into sports but it seems baseball goes on forever re. how long their season goes...

The regular season ends at the end of September/1st days of October.

The World Series ends very late October.

Sports seasons are getting longer and more overlap.

THIS season the Lions have home games on Oct 20 and 27.

Those games could conflict with the World Series very easily.

**Spartan** · June-19-13, 02:02 PM

This is certainly encouraging [[from mLive live blog)
http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi...t_vote_by.html

According to DEGC documents, Olympia Development "has committed, and/or will induce other private developers to commit, at least $200 million for other developments within the Catalyst Development Area"

**401don** · June-19-13, 02:03 PM

Next "no concrete plans yet but, oh yeah, we want your money" announcement is due Sept. 15.

**emu steve** · June-19-13, 02:16 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Wgi4aH9T

I'm liking what I'm reading.

Woodward was always my #1 location for an arena.

The rest sounds pretty good.

Other projects that could be part of the $200 million additional development include:
■ 140,000 square feet of new mixed office and retail development on Woodward at Sproat St.
■ 25,000 square feet of office and retail development along Woodward
■ Several parking structures with a total of 25,000 square feet of retail
■ Renovation of the Detroit Life Building at 2210 Park Ave. for 3,645 square feet of retail and 35 residential units
■ Renovation of the Blenheim Building at 81 W. Columbia St. for 1,833 square feet of retail and 16 residential units
■ Renovation of the building at 1922 Cass Ave. for 70,000 square feet of office space
■ A new hotel-retail development with a 20,000 square feet of ground floor
■ Parking lots and other amenities

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2WgvBEIma

**downtownguy** · June-19-13, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Wgi4aH9T

I'm liking what I'm reading.

Woodward was always my #1 location for an arena.

The rest sounds pretty good.

Other projects that could be part of the $200 million additional development include:
■ 140,000 square feet of new mixed office and retail development on Woodward at Sproat St.
■ 25,000 square feet of office and retail development along Woodward
■ Several parking structures with a total of 25,000 square feet of retail
■ Renovation of the Detroit Life Building at 2210 Park Ave. for 3,645 square feet of retail and 35 residential units
■ Renovation of the Blenheim Building at 81 W. Columbia St. for 1,833 square feet of retail and 16 residential units
■ Renovation of the building at 1922 Cass Ave. for 70,000 square feet of office space
■ A new hotel-retail development with a 20,000 square feet of ground floor
■ Parking lots and other amenities

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2WgvBEIma

Sounds good? It should. We've heard it before. Ilitch acquired the Detroit Life and Blenheim Apartments to renovate in 1988 as part of the taxpayer subsidized Fox Development. We've only been waiting 25 years.

About the only thing we can count on in that list is "Several parking structures" and "Parking lots."

**downtownguy** · June-19-13, 02:36 PM

Has the city and/or Ilitch done anything yet about the "up to $70 million" in fees owed the city on the Joe Louis Arena television contract first reported on in December and discussed in this DetroitYes thread?

City of Detroit "hasn't been able to collect a dime" for JLA Cable from Ilitch

**downtownguy** · June-19-13, 02:23 PM

What a joke. One of the richest men in Michigan needs to take money from education to make his own playground.

The $12.8 million comes from school taxes collected by the Downtown Development Authority. This revenue stream, which could vary each year depending on the economy, would pay for bonds that would be used to finance construction.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2Wgwxx1Si

**Khorasaurus** · June-19-13, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

What a joke. One of the richest men in Michigan needs to take money from education to make his own playground.

This is a little misleading. The money is coming from the DDA, which gets all incremental property tax dollars from the downtown area, regardless of what the millage was originally for. So that money was always going for "downtown development." It would never have been for schools.

**emu steve** · June-19-13, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Khorasaurus

This is a little misleading. The money is coming from the DDA, which gets all incremental property tax dollars from the downtown area, regardless of what the millage was originally for. So that money was always going for "downtown development." It would never have been for schools.

Another post I agree with.

I saw reference to this in an article [[think it was mlive.com).

Let me digress for a second and show the parallels to what happened in D.C. for Nationals Park.

In D.C. they developed a plan which had multiple funding sources to pay off the debt.

1). Taxes on tickets, concessions, etc. etc. [[nothing surprising here).

2). The business created a tax zone and taxed themselves.

After the outcry from those who wanted the money [[WHAT MONEY?????) spent on schools, etc. [[let me explain this later) the stadium was built.

What has happened?

The income from those sources EXCEEDED the debt service and now the business folks are complaining that D.C. is keeping the excess funds [[for the general fund) instead of paying off the debt early.

Bottom line:

D.C. got a beautiful stadium [[to keep their Nats), tremendous amount of development around the stadium AND D.C. IS MAKING MONEY ON THE STADIUM [[+ cash flow - income > expenditures).

And money for schools: The taxes the business agreed to tax themselves was SOLELY for the stadium. NO stadium; NO Tax. and NO extra money for schools.

This isn't EITHER OR.

The stadium did not take a nickle from schools and if the stadium hadn't been built there wouldn't be another nickle for schools.