Downtown/Midtown Rents "Downtown Detroit rents go through roof"

[michimoby]

There are plenty of lower-market rentals available, moby.

The correct comparison to Williamsburg is more something like sharing a Woodbridge house [[$300ish a room) than the Broderick or something, which is most comparable to a high-rise in Manhattan. Still apples and oranges, but not quite as bad of a comparison.

By amenities and size of the apartment, Eber, sure.

But regarding amenities and local retail establishments, walkability...the only fair comparisons with W'burg are Midtown, Downtown, and Corktown.

[WaCoTS]

The move to gentrify swaths of the city also is pushing out several hundred low-income residents who’ve been told to move after their buildings were sold, by new owners who’ll be raising the rent. It happened this year to residents of three small apartment complexes on Henry Street in the Cass Corridor. In downtown’s Capitol Park, senior citizens who relied on federal aid to pay their rent have been given a year to find a new home.

Tenants soon will start moving into the restored Beaux Arts building designed by Albert Kahn with relief stone carvings by Corrado Parducci. The seven-story building at 735 Griswold is a block from Campus Martius. Rent starts at $1,275 for a 850-square feet unit and tops out at $2,500 for a 1,440-square-foot unit. Based on the square footage, that’s about $500 a month more than almost anyone in the area would have charged two years ago.

how is that "good"?
sounds like the rich kicking out the poor, over a view of the skyline.
seems like there should at least be a little more thought given at least, to kicking out elderly, who have even less means or ability to deal with being displaced.

[TexasT]

how is that "good"?
sounds like the rich kicking out the poor, over a view of the skyline.
seems like there should at least be a little more thought given at least, to kicking out elderly, who have even less means or ability to deal with being displaced.

Because there are still plenty of places in Detroit, even near downtown, for the poor to live. They aren't being kicked to the streets. However, this opens up more expensive property [[or what would be expensive in any other city) so that we can actually have a tax base to provide services for the poor people.

I'd rather have a different house and police/fire/schools than have a rundown highrise downtown without basic city services. People can't have their cake and eat it too. Which one do you want?

And who said there isn't thought given? Are you familiar with the volunteers giving the tenants legal advice? The protestations leading to them getting an extension on the time they have to vacate? Are you showing up to help them move?

[Honky Tonk]

Because there are still plenty of places in Detroit, even near downtown, for the poor to live. They aren't being kicked to the streets. However, this opens up more expensive property [[or what would be expensive in any other city) so that we can actually have a tax base to provide services for the poor people.

I'd rather have a different house and police/fire/schools than have a rundown highrise downtown without basic city services. People can't have their cake and eat it too. Which one do you want?

And who said there isn't thought given? Are you familiar with the volunteers giving the tenants legal advice? The protestations leading to them getting an extension on the time they have to vacate? Are you showing up to help them move?

Classic. As long as they're NOT living around us.

[hathorlive]

As someone who made the decision to move, the rents were not cheap but what is worse than rent is car insurance and income tax. Much higher than other cities I looked at. What is up with car insurance in this area?

[JDKeepsmiling]

I am pretty sure that the Hudson block development will be the frist new construction in quite a while that will be primarily aimed at filling residentail demand. If that sells out quickly, I would expect something else to drop fairly fast. Someone will see opportunity, and Detroit will get at least 1 30 story or higher condo tower.

Totally random guess at loaction is parking lot at the corner of Randolph and Lafayette.

[Khorasaurus]

If that sells out quickly, I would expect something else to drop fairly fast. Someone will see opportunity, and Detroit will get at least 1 30 story or higher condo tower.

Totally random guess at loaction is parking lot at the corner of Randolph and Lafayette.

River House in Grand Rapids is the tallest residential tower in the state, at approximately 400 feet [[about 50 feet taller than the Broderick). I suspect Detroit will pass that at some point [[if the Book becomes residential, it would be the tallest - 475 feet), but the question is when.

[gthomas]

I am pretty sure that the Hudson block development will be the frist new construction in quite a while that will be primarily aimed at filling residentail demand. If that sells out quickly, I would expect something else to drop fairly fast. Someone will see opportunity, and Detroit will get at least 1 30 story or higher condo tower.

Totally random guess at loaction is parking lot at the corner of Randolph and Lafayette.

Yes that parking lot is READY for a 30-story condo tower, I hope the Hudson site, partial Monroe site and the Statler site is nothing but residential. Those areas are dead zones after 5p. Adding thousands of units will create a density after dark downtown, without the Tigers/Redwings/Lions playing.

[wolverine]

Yes that parking lot is READY for a 30-story condo tower, I hope the Hudson site, partial Monroe site and the Statler site is nothing but residential. Those areas are dead zones after 5p. Adding thousands of units will create a density after dark downtown, without the Tigers/Redwings/Lions playing.

Actually it won't create pedestrian density. Businesses do. Even one city block with 2000 residents can be silent. I think downtown can feel vibrant long before highrises go up. This is why I've never understood NIMBY complaints about tall towers and traffic when residential buildings only contribute to a marginal increase in traffic.

[mwilbert]

Actually it won't create pedestrian density. Businesses do. Even one city block with 2000 residents can be silent. I think downtown can feel vibrant long before highrises go up. .

I don't think you are looking at this properly. What the residents will do a provide a better customer base for whatever businesses might want to open. A major retail area can draw customers from a wider area, as regional malls generally do, and they don't need a lot of nearby residents. But downtown Detroit is no longer a major retail area, it is never going to be able to compete with malls in terms of parking, and most businesses are going to need a critical mass of local customers to be successful. That implies a need for a lot more housing downtown.

The hope is that eventually downtown can get into a virtuous cycle, and you reach a sufficient density of businesses that it becomes a draw [[in conjunction with the other downtown entertainment attractions) that can pull people from outside downtown to shop, but I believe that density cannot be achieved without more local residents.

[wolverine]

Yes, we are saying the same thing. The business districts that serve resident population alone aren't always vibrant. They are 9-6. Destination districts....be it downtown or neighborhood streets have bars, restaurants, and retail and need a huge critical mass to sustain itself.

But midtown and downtown benefit from some tourism interest, so they can attract those type of places and also get the accessory benefits of a growing residential population in the area.

To put this in perspective I think on average you need 5000 residents within walking distance to support 1 Starbucks store in a non hotel-non-corporate area. That's alot of residential towers and that is why it's not good to anticipate population density alone as a meter for opening businesses. Best to consider vibrant districts as places that attract people from all over.

This is the whole reason why Gilbert is stepping in to improve the retail scene downtown. I don't think it could grow this fast on its own.

[mwilbert]

I'm not sure we are saying the same thing. It sounds as if you think downtown could be a vibrant district attracting outside people without there first being more residents. I don't believe there is a path to that state without significantly more residents that there are now. Other than that, I think we are mostly in agreement.

[wolverine]

I'm not sure we are saying the same thing. It sounds as if you think downtown could be a vibrant district attracting outside people without there first being more residents. I don't believe there is a path to that state without significantly more residents that there are now. Other than that, I think we are mostly in agreement.

Of course it could become vibrant before towers get built. But the busiest districts are not a result of their immediate surroundings of high population density. If such a direct correlation existed there would already be bustling retail around Detroit's existing residential towers. Instead it's mostly service based, some of it fast food, and much of it closes late evening.

[detroit12]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

This article got me thinking...is this the reality on the ground? I am hearing all this talk about how Midtown and Downtown are basically full. Is that people's actual experiances? Are rents rising 10-15% per year?

A second question is when do you think someone will come forward with a major residential development in Downtown?

from experience I would yes. I had a very hard time trying to find a one bedroom for a reasonable price that was nice and in the downtown area. I ended up renting in the Indian Village neighborhood. Which wasn't so bad for me because IV is my fav neighborhood. But to warn a lot of people it will get frustrating because almost every building between cork/mid/downtown have waiting list and even in New Center the apartments are limited as well

[scottn55]

I think it bears keeping in mind that all of the large downtown buildings, whether office or residential, occupy spaces which formerly held much smaller buildings. When I see the AAA Building on the Statler site it makes me wonder whether low-rise development wouldn't be better for that location right now. It seems like Detroit is always holding out for the next "big" development when maybe we should be thinking in terms of baby steps. Detroit has 1/3 of the population it had in 1950. Why would we expect that when we tear down a large building [[Statler, Hudsons, etc...) that an even larger building would take its place? I'd rather see small scale development, which could eventually be replaced by larger scale development if future demand dictates, than empty space. 30+ story towers are not a prerequisite in order to have vibrancy.

[mwilbert]

I think this is not really the key issue. The issue is whether you can build new residential space of whatever size at current rents, or alternatively, when rents will be high enough to build new residential space. Even with the current rising rents, I don't believe new construction downtown is economic without subsidy.

[Khorasaurus]

I think this is not really the key issue. The issue is whether you can build new residential space of whatever size at current rents, or alternatively, when rents will be high enough to build new residential space. Even with the current rising rents, I don't believe new construction downtown is economic without subsidy.

The article that started this discussion said developers have identified that point as the average [[or maybe median?) rent hitting $2 per square foot. It's about $1.75 and rising. The prediction was that if/when it hits $2, you'll see a rash of new developments, especially because acquiring lots and vacant buildings is still going to be pretty cheap.

[Spartan]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

This article got me thinking...is this the reality on the ground? I am hearing all this talk about how Midtown and Downtown are basically full. Is that people's actual experiances? Are rents rising 10-15% per year?

A second question is when do you think someone will come forward with a major residential development in Downtown?

Just got my renewal info, and I'm looking at a 33% increase [[downtown) to about $1.75 per sq foot. Looks like I might be moving to another area in the city or back to the burbs...

[Spartan]

Rents are skyrocketing and everything's full, I have about 2 weeks to find somewhere to move. I want to stay here, but damn!

[Eric_c]

Take a look in the Villages, Spartan. My friend just leased a beautiful two bedroom in the Parkstone for $950.

[Spartan]

Take a look in the Villages, Spartan. My friend just leased a beautiful two bedroom in the Parkstone for $950.

Villages? Indian Village? University Village?

I would like to stay in "Greater Downtown." I've started looking more at Corktown/Lafayette Park but it seems to be much harder to locate properties around there. A lot of them don't have web sites, etc. Midtown is another option, but that is looking pretty similar to downtown. Everything seems to be <$700 and crappy or >$1000 and nice. There is a serious lack of "mid-level" stuff near downtown/midtown from what I've seen.

[Eric_c]

THE Villages: www.thevillagesofdetroit.com

Islandview Village, West Village, Indian Village, East Village, Gold Coast and Joseph Berry Subdivision. All very much within the Greater Downtown. We are the same distance from Woodbridge to Campus Martius and have more than two streets to choose from, too! Lol!

[mwilbert]

I'm sure he could find a nice place in the Villages, but they are farther from what most people think of as downtown than Corktown. If he is looking in Lafayette Park, he might try talking to the people at Vasileff; they seem to have a pretty good handle on that area.

[Eric_c]

It always makes me laugh when people talk about "distance" with regard to the Villages. The Villages are the same distance to Downtown as New Center or Woodbridge and Jefferson Avenue is arguably Detroit's most vibrant business street. Plus, we have the river anywhere from zero to ten short blocks away. And Belle Isle. We're thirteen minutes from Campus Martius by bike or bus and the busses are actually quite good. And grocery stores. And Eastern Market! Lol! I've been here for nine years and always suggest people take a look. It's the perfect balance of neighborhood and Downtown living. Good stuff.

[mwilbert]

It always makes me laugh when people talk about "distance" with regard to the Villages. The Villages are the same distance to Downtown as New Center or Woodbridge and Jefferson Avenue is arguably Detroit's most vibrant business street. Plus, we have the river anywhere from zero to ten short blocks away. And Belle Isle. We're thirteen minutes from Campus Martius by bike or bus and the busses are actually quite good. And grocery stores. And Eastern Market! Lol! I've been here for nine years and always suggest people take a look. It's the perfect balance of neighborhood and Downtown living. Good stuff.

Again, I'm not trying to suggest the Villages don't have their own appeal, but people in New Center or Woodbridge are probably more interested in their proximity to Midtown than their distance to Downtown. In any case, Spartan isn't a newcomer, and he can decide what constitutes Greater Downtown for himself.