One of the priciest homes to hit Metro Detroit market in years [[asking $15,000,000)

[bailey]

The first of many, I'm sure. The Bloomfields and "hams, etc. are all getting pretty long in the tooth. Pretty soon, a lot of those houses are going to hit the market asking for premium prices, but the glut of those houses on the market will drive prices down quickly and the younger generation really thinks those houses are really yucky - nice place to visit but wouldn't want to live there.

That area in the next ten years is going to be pretty interesting when those homes become within reach of folks that otherwise would never have access. I predict the 2nd coming of the great white flight: This Time It's Bloomfield Hills!

-- Hell, Bloomfield Park is a great start. lol!

I would guess a likely of scenario is that if there is glut of monstrous homes, they will be sold to developers who will tear them down and put 10-15 mc mansions on the property....ala Grosse Pointe in the 70s and 80s.

[48009]

Take a look at real estate news that covers high end properties. Rich people flip houses all the time. It's also become common for rich foreigners to park their money in American real estate to avoid taxes in their home countries.

You can't really look at this one house being for sale and draw any meaningful conclusion about... anything. There are probably a hundred apartments on the market in Manhattan that are asking for more than $15M, but that doesn't mean rich people are fleeing Manhattan [[Corcoran's site alone shows 38: http://tinyurl.com/n4ztwrr). Now, if the house sales for significantly more or significantly less than ask, or if the house stays on the market for very short or very long amount of time, then that would be something more meaningful to talk about.

What the heck does anything in NYC have to do with a 22k sq/ft newer build being up for sale in Rochester Hills, MICHIGAN? You continue to claim rich people flip homes all the time--I asked you how many houses of this stature even exist IN THE AREA, let alone have been sold in the last decade? We're talking about MICHIGAN, period. I'd guess there are maybe a dozen homes of this size built within the last ten years in Metro Detroit.

Light research: I couldn't find anything that sold for north of $5M in Metro Detroit past few years, no where near this sq/ft

[48009]

I would guess a likely of scenario is that if there is glut of monstrous homes, they will be sold to developers who will tear them down and put 10-15 mc mansions on the property....ala Grosse Pointe in the 70s and 80s.

Can you expand on this? Never heard of this. Aging auto icons died or moved to ??? couldn't sell their show homes?

[bailey]

Can you expand on this? Never heard of this. Aging auto icons died or moved to ??? couldn't sell their show homes?

am I missing some sarcasm here...or are you serious?

[iheartthed]

What the heck does anything in NYC have to do with a 22k sq/ft newer build being up for sale in Rochester Hills, MICHIGAN?

The type of buyer who can afford to buy a $15M apartment in NYC is the type of buyer who can afford a $15M house in Rochester Hills. Stop being dense.

[48009]

am I missing some sarcasm here...or are you serious?

I am not aware of this. I know nothing about the development of Grosse Pointe--it might as well be Canada to me. Unless we're headed to the boat, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've gone west of say...Van Dyke. Sterling Heights, Warren, Clinton Twp, Grosse Pointe.

[48009]

The type of buyer who can afford to buy a $15M apartment in NYC is the type of buyer who can afford a $15M house in Rochester Hills. Stop being dense.

NOBODY HAS EVER cross shopped a NYC apartment and a 22k sq/ft home in Rochester Hills. Jesus.

[iheartthed]

NOBODY HAS EVER cross shopped a NYC apartment and a 22k sq/ft home in Rochester Hills. Jesus.

Whoever said they did? That doesn't mean that a person who buys a $15M property in Michigan and one who buys one in New York [[or California, or Florida, or Texas, or Illinois, or Ohio) won't use the property in similar ways. Seriously, do I really have to explain this? Doesn't it logically follow that people who shop at similar price points would have similar habits? Especially the very limited market of people shopping in super high end real estate. Hence, why I said that this being for sale says nothing about Detroit or the market. You need more information.

[DTWflyer]

This is such a niche piece of property, its an outlier home, its huge and out of reach of all but a tiny fraction of people. The original owner is now getting older and likely cannot support the huge home, and its very possible the family does not want to continue to maintain this huge estate. Houses worth $15M will sit on the market an awful long time just because the potential buyers are far and few between.

That being, said not so sure about all the doom and gloom about Birmingham / Bloomfield Hills.
Birmingham, agreed is certainly has changed from what it was 10-15 years ago, but it sure seems like if anything the real estate prices have continued to climb and in most neighborhoods have prices many families out of the market. Tear-down and reconstruction in B'ham are the highest I've seen in several years, even now creeping more into the Pembrook Park neighborhood.
Yes, some of the smaller homes that could be potential tear-down targets have been turned into rentals. There are some dumpy/tired houses that are rentals in the neighborhoods near Woodward between Lincoln & 14 Mile.

This is not the case in the Quarton Estates, Popleton Park neighborhoods at all as most homes in there are in the $500 - $900K range.

Bloomfield Hills is interesting since the average age is 65 and most homes are like estates. Bloomfield Hills seems like it will always continue to attract the older, conservate home buyer looking for a quiet retreat.

I don't know, I'm not buying the doom and gloom scenarios for these locations.

[48009]

1. Yes, some of the smaller homes that could be potential tear-down targets have been turned into rentals. There are some dumpy/tired houses that are rentals in the neighborhoods near Woodward between Lincoln & 14 Mile.

2. Bloomfield Hills is interesting since the average age is 65 and most homes are like estates. Bloomfield Hills seems like it will always continue to attract the older, conservate home buyer looking for a quiet retreat.

I don't know, I'm not buying the doom and gloom scenarios for these locations.

Good post.
1. What do you think that does to the school district, or the downtown area, etc.? The blight is pervasive and eventually bleeds and diminishes other home prices.
2. Bloomfield Hills will hold on longer than any other Metro Detroit town because it’s by far the wealthiest enclave and by far the hardest to enter. But there’s only so long you can fight off and ignore the surroundings. Pontiac isn’t getting any better. Birmingham is struggling to maintain its identity. And Bloomfield Twp and West Bloomfield are seeing a rapidly changing landscape.

I just don't think SE Michigan can support these anymore. I think what you'll see in the future are pockets of elite [[i.e. neighborhoods), instead of entire towns.

[48009]

Whoever said they did? That doesn't mean that a person who buys a $15M property in Michigan and one who buys one in New York [[or California, or Florida, or Texas, or Illinois, or Ohio) won't use the property in similar ways. Seriously, do I really have to explain this? Doesn't it logically follow that people who shop at similar price points would have similar habits? Especially the very limited market of people shopping in super high end real estate. Hence, why I said that this being for sale says nothing about Detroit or the market. You need more information.

You're trying to compare Michigan real estate with that of LA NYC and Miami? Umm, ok. The only residential real estate in Michigan that could be considered a place to "park" wealth would be the Lk Michigan shoreline--and even that's a stretch. There is no high end residential in SE Michigan you park your wealth.

[Baselinepunk]

Good post.
1. What do you think that does to the school district, or the downtown area, etc.? The blight is pervasive and eventually bleeds and diminishes other home prices.
2. Bloomfield Hills will hold on longer than any other Metro Detroit town because it’s by far the wealthiest enclave and by far the hardest to enter. But there’s only so long you can fight off and ignore the surroundings. Pontiac isn’t getting any better. Birmingham is struggling to maintain its identity. And Bloomfield Twp and West Bloomfield are seeing a rapidly changing landscape.

I just don't think SE Michigan can support these anymore. I think what you'll see in the future are pockets of elite [[i.e. neighborhoods), instead of entire towns.

Here's another issue to chew on: I think that once the babyboomer population bubble finally makes its way through, even more of these [[and other) homes will be on the market.

Frankly, I don't see the need to develop new homes when there will not be the population [[or the stomach to live in such glorified orifices to Capitalism) that will cause a migration to fill the housing void in da 'Fields.

Plus, the current population in those towns certainly are not cranking out kids that will fill that void either. There's a ton of those kids that got the hell out of dodge right out of college. Once they get a taste of the outside world '[[read: outside the state), there's no motivation to come back, except to visit and be a tourist.

[48009]

Here's another issue to chew on: I think that once the babyboomer population bubble finally makes its way through, even more of these [[and other) homes will be on the market.

Frankly, I don't see the need to develop new homes when there will not be the population [[or the stomach to live in such glorified orifices to Capitalism) that will cause a migration to fill the housing void in da 'Fields.

Plus, the current population in those towns certainly are not cranking out kids that will fill that void either. There's a ton of those kids that got the hell out of dodge right out of college. Once they get a taste of the outside world '[[read: outside the state), there's no motivation to come back, except to visit and be a tourist.

I think iheartthed was trying to say there will always be a need for high end enclaves and he or she isn't off the mark. I mean there's always going to be industry and a 1% [[and .10%) in SE Michigan and they have to live somewhere--why won't it continue to be Birmingham/Bloomfield? I just don't think SE Michigan will be able to sustain the overall scope of those towns.

Any of my daughter's friends that moved back moved back [[usually around late 20s, early 30s) only did so to be closer to family. If that core family leaves the state, that draw to go back is gone. Visit or be a tourist? HA!

[Baselinepunk]

I agree with that to a point.

It could continue but as we have already seen in a short few years Grand Rapids has over taken Warren as the #2 city in the state [[which I think call it #2 for that city is quite appropriate). The reason why it could not continue is attitudes towards this type of lifestyle does not fit with a lot of the kids current worldview. Less and less of them even have credit cards; how can we expect them to have the fiduciary capital to fill a void of an enclave of 30 McMansions? Even more so when real wages have been falling for this age group and everyone else?

I'm sure that enclaves will always be in demand; and I agree with you I don't think it's sustainable for this area.

Frankly, I think the way to bust up gerrymandering in this state is if a bunch of people, like my Ferndale ass, moved into these areas and fucked the district/s up by flipping them Blue.

There would be a collective heart attack [[and, thus, more housing stock on the market .... ).

[DTWflyer]

Good post.
1. What do you think that does to the school district, or the downtown area, etc.? The blight is pervasive and eventually bleeds and diminishes other home prices.
2. Bloomfield Hills will hold on longer than any other Metro Detroit town because it’s by far the wealthiest enclave and by far the hardest to enter. But there’s only so long you can fight off and ignore the surroundings. Pontiac isn’t getting any better. Birmingham is struggling to maintain its identity. And Bloomfield Twp and West Bloomfield are seeing a rapidly changing landscape.

I just don't think SE Michigan can support these anymore. I think what you'll see in the future are pockets of elite [[i.e. neighborhoods), instead of entire towns.

The so-called "blight" in Birmingham is nothing like Detroit, in fact in looks no better or worse than 50% of the homes in most inner-ring suburbs. Unlike Detroit, these areas still have all of the city services and amenities to draw in people. Plus, even the "dumpy" bungalows are not cheap to rent. Even rentals that haven't been fixed-up still rent for at least $1200-$1400 in Birmingham, and they start at 1000 sq ft. It is impossible to find a rental in good shape in Birmingham for less than $1700/month. Go south of 14 Mile to Royal Oak or Clawson and rents immediately drop by at least $300/month for the exact same house.

Plus, we are talking about what maybe 100 houses that fit this profile out of a city of what more than 9000. These areas where like that that 15-20 years ago when I was growing up there. These areas where always known as the "lower income" areas, a relative term for Birmingham.

Downtown Birmingham has changed more because of the fact it has become a regional entertainment desination and draws people in from all over for the bars/restaurants/movies 10 years ago it was essentially a sleepy downtown area primarily for the adjacent residential areas. The different demographics and petty crime in Birmingham are more a function of people coming in from other areas than the lower-income renters in a few parts of Birmingham.

Bloomfield Hills has not been impacted by being adjacent to Pontiac for decades, not sure what that would change all of the sudden now.

[Baselinepunk]

"Bloomfield Hills has not been impacted by being adjacent to Pontiac for decades, not sure what that would change all of the sudden now."

That's because BH has been able to fend off the hoard by pricing them out.

Ten years from now that "borderline" will be greatly blurred; already is in some places.

[48009]

The so-called "blight" in Birmingham is nothing like Detroit, in fact in looks no better or worse than 50% of the homes in most inner-ring suburbs. Unlike Detroit, these areas still have all of the city services and amenities to draw in people. Plus, even the "dumpy" bungalows are not cheap to rent. Even rentals that haven't been fixed-up still rent for at least $1200-$1400 in Birmingham, and they start at 1000 sq ft. It is impossible to find a rental in good shape in Birmingham for less than $1700/month. Go south of 14 Mile to Royal Oak or Clawson and rents immediately drop by at least $300/month for the exact same house.

Plus, we are talking about what maybe 100 houses that fit this profile out of a city of what more than 9000. These areas where like that that 15-20 years ago when I was growing up there. These areas where always known as the "lower income" areas, a relative term for Birmingham.

Downtown Birmingham has changed more because of the fact it has become a regional entertainment destination and draws people in from all over for the bars/restaurants/movies 10 years ago it was essentially a sleepy downtown area primarily for the adjacent residential areas. The different demographics and petty crime in Birmingham are more a function of people coming in from other areas than the lower-income renters in a few parts of Birmingham.

Bloomfield Hills has not been impacted by being adjacent to Pontiac for decades, not sure what that would change all of the sudden now.

There have always been lower income pockets in 48009 but those pockets have gotten even cheaper, there are more rental houses mixed in throughout town, and when *half* of the homes sold were bank owned, a lot of buyers didn't fit the template of the quiet Birmingham buyer of yesteryear. I'd bet Birmingham would be in even bigger decline if bham lifers could actually sell for what they need to. A lot of people here put 6 and sometimes 7 figures into remodeling their homes.

And yes, the city officials clamoring to make dtown some regional destination was terrible for the town. And crime and property values, etc.

Bloomfield Hills wasn't shielded from the real estate or auto industry crash. And with an older population, there simply aren't those lucrative jobs here to keep those property values that high.

[48009]

"Bloomfield Hills has not been impacted by being adjacent to Pontiac for decades, not sure what that would change all of the sudden now."

That's because BH has been able to fend off the hoard by pricing them out.

Ten years from now that "borderline" will be greatly blurred; already is in some places.

Yup. 5 years ago the Det News was saying half of the homes sold in Bimingham *and* Bloomfield Hills were bank owned.

Where do you already see it blurred in BH?

[Baselinepunk]

"Where do you already see it blurred in BH?"

Areas of Telegraph and Square Lake.

[Baselinepunk]

Wholly shit! I just looked at Zillow; are there usually this many homes for sale in this area? It looks like everyone's leaving ...

Could the end could be nigh?

[DTWflyer]

The area of Telegraph and Square Lake is Bloomfield Township. The far corners of Bloomfield Twp that border Pontiac has always been transitional, and frankly is not one of the more desirable areas to be in.
Every city/township is going to have some fringe areas.

On the bank owned/foreclosures, lets not kid ourselves, they aren't selling for the cost of back taxes and are still out of reach for many.

Example:

House in Franklin was valued at $1.0M in 2005, sold for $699K in 2008.
House that was worth $1.3M in Bloomfield Hills, was sold by the bank for $800K in 2011.

While they are not the absurd prices of years ago, there is plenty of demand of real estate in that price range in Metro Detroit. McMansion in Rochester Hills can go for $700K easily.

[DTWflyer]

Believe it or not the real estate market in Birmingham/Bloomfield is HOT right now. Inventory was absurdly low over the past few years, and now that things have started to recover people are putting places on the market. It is a sellers market in these areas right now.

[48009]

Wholly shit! I just looked at Zillow; are there usually this many homes for sale in this area? It looks like everyone's leaving ...

Past 5 years have been on another level.

[antongast]

[48009]

Believe it or not the real estate market in Birmingham/Bloomfield is HOT right now. Inventory was absurdly low over the past few years, and now that things have started to recover people are putting places on the market. It is a sellers market in these areas right now.

Sounds like RE agent/broker talk to me. If homes really are selling in the area it's because prices are so low. Many of my neighbors would love to get out but can't sell without incurring a sizable loss.