City Council says, get your #&!*@% Art out of my Paradise Valley

[elganned]

I love this quote: "We wanted art reflective of Paradise Valley, not reflective of some artists' vision of the universe as it exists in their mind," said Councilwoman Barbara Rose-Collins." [[italics added)

Isn't reflecting the artist's vision of the universe the very definition of "art"? What was she expecting? Ignorance in action.

That being said, I find I have to agree with gumby and Sstashmoo. [[Gasp! A sign of the End Times, certainly.) "This turd cannot be polished." [[Great line. I think I'll plagerize it mercilessly in future.)

I don't know "Art", but I know what I like. And I don't like this. It falls under the category of Not-Art, which I created in my personal lexicon to describe the many pieces of expensive bric-a-brac that dot our public spaces, like Picasso's baboon in Chicago or that Calder monstrosity in Grand Rapids.

That having been said, it remains for future generations to decide whether it's significant. I never forget that "Swan Lake," one of my favorite pieces of music, was vilified at its Moscow debut.

[Supersport]

I can only assume that those who don't have a clue how to use a welder, plasma cutter, and die grinder believe that this shit is truly art. Take a class at any vocational school and you too could be a run of the mill modern artist!

"i could've done/built/painted that..."

but you didn't.

That's right, because I would have taken that pile of twisted metal to the scrap yard. Joe Schmoe, the pipe bending guy from the muffler shop could replicate that in a half days work, and at a fraction of the cost.

[EastsideAl]

I actually think that all 3 of those piece look pretty nice. Although it is hard to tell given the crappy level of the photos [[c'mon News...).

What I don't get though is why, if the council wanted something specific, their interests weren't made known before the artwork was commissioned and completed. If they required some sort of realism [[I hesitate to say fascist/socialist realism, even though it does remind me more than a little of the Nazi, Soviet, or Maoist official art requirements), why commission these artists? One would have to expect that contemporary artists will make contemporary work. Of course, if your requirement is that they not make something "Picasso-like" then you may be, oh, about 100 years too late.

Having said that, there is a fair amount of tasteful representational work being done out there. And if it needs to be tied to the history of Paradise Valley, maybe a nice big life-size sculpture of John Lee Hooker holding his guitar at Hastings & Mack - I could go for that. Or some Detroit jazz greats, who surely deserve the recognition. Of course, if the artists still want to go abstract they could do sculptures of some of Ms.Collins' hairstyles over the years. But that may be more far out there than anyone really wants to see.

[Jmil]

This council is like that proverbial broke watch. They are definitely right about this one. Whether you call it art or not, I sure as hell wouldn't want it.

Ssporty, where are my damn wings & beer?

[gravitymachine]

I can only assume that those who don't have a clue how to use a welder, plasma cutter, and die grinder believe that this shit is truly art. Take a class at any vocational school and you too could be a run of the mill modern artist!



That's right, because I would have taken that pile of twisted metal to the scrap yard. Joe Schmoe, the pipe bending guy from the muffler shop could replicate that in a half days work, and at a fraction of the cost.

craftsmanship is but one component of art, and in some cases lack of it [[or perceived lack of it) serves a purpose in the message the artist is trying to convey, such as spontenaeity. art is not a zero sum game like welding up some flowmasters

[Sstashmoo]

Quote "That's right, because I would have taken that pile of twisted metal to the scrap yard."

Although I didn't go that far, those were my sentiments as well. I've dragged much nicer pieces to the dumpster . We call them "mistakes".

[ScienceFair]

Wow, I never realized we had so many art critics on this board! I never knew much about art, but today I learned that art can't be made of recylced materials and that if I don't like it or understand it, it's not art. I think we should really talk to the folks at the DIA about clearing out some of their displays, there's a lot of stuff in there that I don't like or understand and that I probably could have done myself. If they could have just focused on the "real" art, they wouldn't have needed all the space for that new addition! Keep up the good work Dyesers!

[alsodave]

Two words:

Velvet Coleman.

[LEOQUEEN]

I sent the following response to the Detroit News after I read the article in question---


"The artists chosen to participate in this project are citizens of this city, renowned, and in the case of Mr.Guyton, world-known. As a citizen of Detroit and a former resident of Harmonie Park, I would be more than honored to have the work of such illustrious artists installed in this area.

I believe that the citizens who view these pieces will rise to the occasion and see that these pieces, while "abstract", are another link in the artistic chain that works well with both the theme and the atmosphere of the park.

After all, what is more abstract than Jazz? Listen to a solo by Miles Davis, or the scatting of Ella Fitzgerald...and when Billie was singing about STRANGE FRUIT, we all knew what she was talking about without her having to spell-it-out. That's what art does...it allows the viewer to participate and marry the richness of their own lives with the reading of the work in front of them. So look at the bronze ladder by Todd Erickson and see striving, strength, and fortitude: all attributes of the original inhabitants, that now Mr. Erickson is paying tribute to in his own way."

[gumby]

Wow, I never realized we had so many art critics on this board! I never knew much about art, but today I learned that art can't be made of recylced materials and that if I don't like it or understand it, it's not art. I think we should really talk to the folks at the DIA about clearing out some of their displays, there's a lot of stuff in there that I don't like or understand and that I probably could have done myself. If they could have just focused on the "real" art, they wouldn't have needed all the space for that new addition! Keep up the good work Dyesers!

Never said it wasn't art. I believe I said it was crap but crap in my eyes may be art in the eyes of others. My main arguement is that art snobs scoff at the opinions of us "little guys". How dare we not understand that the statue of Jesus in a vat of piss is making a statement. If the Council does not feel it is appropriat for Harmony Park then so be it. They are the ones who make the decisions [[you voted for them).

[elganned]

I think we should really talk to the folks at the DIA about clearing out some of their displays, there's a lot of stuff in there that I don't like or understand and that I probably could have done myself. If they could have just focused on the "real" art, they wouldn't have needed all the space for that new addition! Keep up the good work Dyesers!

Let me know when that's happening. I'll bring my truck and work gloves.

[gnome]

Thank you Leoqueen....our friend Joe Wisner told me once, "just 'cuz you have a paint brush, don't make you Picasso" pretty much sums up how I feel about this debate.

With Tyree's piece...who could be surprised at what it looks like? You couldn't be shocked if you ever seen any of his work; judging from the grainy photos his "door" is tame, no baby doll heads hanging off of it, no steering wheels or toasters or bedsprings painted in a crayola rainbow. sheesh

[Zimm]

Two words:

Velvet Coleman.

brilliant!

this is the kind of results that can be expected when Clowncil awards commissions based on the artist attributes such as "from Detroit" and "looks like them"

[LEOQUEEN]

An aside that I would like to offer, once and for all, for all its worth. There was no STATUE of Jesus immersed in a vat of piss. There was no dung 'smeared' across anybody's Madonna. The first was a PHOTOGRAPH, consisting of a trinket purchased in a variety store that was then placed in a beaker of the artist's own urine. There was never any actual urine displayed anywhere. The second was a very detailed painting of a Black Madonna, ornately decorated with paint and glitter and sequins, where the entire canvas sat on preserved balls of elephant dung as pedestal.

In both cases, the artists were responding to their respective heritages and backgrounds---Serrano and his reading of Catholicism and its references to bodily fluids in its rites, plus, in the case of the trinket, to the commercialization that would endorse the creation of a plastic Jesus; and Ofili, responding to his diverse and African/Christian culture with the collision of rituals and symbols.

I am so sick of people repeating hearsay and taking it as gospel. Have you seen the "smears" or the urine within the context of the exhibitions they were in or read about them in magazines or text that discussed the work in question?

Far be it for me to try to convince anyone to like this work....that is not the issue. But ignorance is NOT blissful when comments such as those are paraded around as convenient ways to sully any work that is not instantly understood, or as our 'Council' will term, "abstract".

[LEOQUEEN]

this is why I hate you art snobs. How dare people not like the so called art? Us ignorant masses could care less about what the fuck the artists intent was. A piece of crap is a piece of crap. This turd cannot be polished.

I'm sorry just because someone thinks it is art doesn't make it so. I think many here would agree that "Piss Jesus" sucks but how dare we comment on its offensiveness and how we don't want public money funding it.

You don't have to worry about public funding anymore. Jesse Helms started the ball rolling on that one. Fortunately there are a number of private institutions that have stepped up to support the arts in most of its manifestations....they know that a community cannot keep creative talent here OR entice business, visitors, tourism, new citizens unless there is a creative component to enhance the quality of life.

Thank you, Kresge!

[Evelyn]

Aw, I like the giant Calder in Grand Rapids.

I'm no art critic! But I would prefer to see public art that I don't really understand, rather than no public art at all.

[Island]

I think a bronzed Lincoln Navigator, with a marble statue of Michael Jackson dancing on the roof, perhaps a [[bulletproof) glass diorama of the monorail/casinos/closed schools in the background might be appropriate.

[EastsideAl]

brilliant!

this is the kind of results that can be expected when Clowncil awards commissions based on the artist attributes such as "from Detroit" and "looks like them"

And, whether you like the art or not, this is the kind of not-so-subtle as the poster apparently thinks racist spew one sees far too often on this site.

[gravitymachine]

Thank you, Kresge!

congratulations by the way

[LEOQUEEN]

congratulations by the way

Thanks so much for the acknowledgement!

[Fnemecek]

The 3 pieces are consistent with the artists prior work. If someone wanted a different style of art, they shouldn't have commissioned those 3 artists.

The City Council's current reaction is the equivalent of someone walking into a Chinese restaurant and expressing outrage they don't have tacos on the menu.

If they're adamantly opposed to installing them in Paradise Valley/Harmonie Park then there are several places in my neighborhood where I'd love to have them.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Let me know when that's happening. I'll bring my truck and work gloves."

Right on.

Do they still have that umm work known as "Autometal" there. It was a few car hoods welded together if I remember correctly. It was the source of much merriment on one of my visits.

[thecarl]

i remember being at the guggenheim in new york, studying a piece that contrasted modern society with the humanity of yore. it featured a small, black, misshapen plastic object in the center, surrounded by a metal surface reflecting the faces of the people that gazed upon it. the outer area represented natural materials and how we could see ourselves and humanity within - but at the core, everything was reduced to a grave, hardened, unfeeling piece of resin derived from a laboratory and mass-produced in a factory. it was in the center to signify that everything over the course of civilization had led to "this." and lastly, the piece demonstrated the power that amassed technology had over the fate of the planet: when the small plastic center was moved into the "off" position, the lights in the room were extinguished - as if our world had been eliminated from space and time. it was a stunning and provocative work done by the noted artist, "leviton."

[Retroit]

Whether this is "good" art or "bad" art is beside the point. What I am troubled by is why, in a city with so many pressing needs and so few resources, is money being spent on something that is so unnecessary?

[Zug]

Personally, I think the city council has the right to complain as much as they want. I for one hate the pieces. Not that I don't believe it's art, but to be honest, the abstract public art thing is getting annoying to me. Sometimes it feels like every new public art piece is a piece of twisted metal or sheet metal with some holes in it or geometric shapes meant to represent something unrecognizable. Not that I don't think it's legitimate, but sometimes the obscure and non-obvious nature of abstract art ends up being distracting and almost meaningless after a while. I see no obvious connection between the history of that area and the pieces created. Of course I can use my brain and have fun seeing possible meanings in the curves and/or bright colors of the abstract pieces, but what's wrong with something with a more realistic/commemorative feel. But come on...some of those pieces look more like broken playground equipment than symbolic art pieces. And the argument that my [[or anyone else's) lack of art education makes them unworthy to criticize is very elitist & condescending. Just because an artist created something doesn't mean that it should be accepted by all out of respect. My biggest complaint is the waste of money and lack of oversight, but these are permanent pieces...let's get it right if we're going to have it for a long time.

On a side note, I have to admit, I never really liked Tyree Guyton. When I first saw the Heidelberg Project after hearing so much about it, I couldn't believe how trashy it looked. Granted, I'm not a professional artist, so I may not be worthy to critique according to some...but him painting happy faces on garbage seems very overrated. And just because he was crazy enough to paint circles on a house, or nail a thousand baby dolls to a house [[sadly, it was torn down) doesn't make him an artistic genius. It's probably more that he has few neighbors to complain. Is he an artist? Yes...but I don't find him a good artist.