Westland considering banning the carnival due to gang fights.

[313WX]

No it isn't. I worked Downtown when the mugging and purse snatching happened @ the fireworks. The women in the office were terrified to leave the building @ lunchtime. Now I work in the 'burbs. Just 2 minutes ago a co-worker announced "Are you kidding? I never go to Detroit". He was asked about the going Grand Prix. People equate these kinds in incidents WITH Detroit, and it doesn't help with it's reputation.

You're missing the point.

Unlike Westland, Detroit didn't ban its fireworks simply because of criminal activity. Instead, the city did what was necessary to lower the potential of said criminal activity taking place. Thousands of people still atted the Fireworks every year.

[Honky Tonk]

You're missing the point.

Unlike Westland, Detroit didn't ban its fireworks simply because of criminal activity. Instead, the city did what was necessary to lower the potential of said criminal activity taking place. Thousands of people still atted the Fireworks every year.

Ok, I'll give you me missing the point. But in all honesty, I think Detroit is flying by the seat of it's pants on the fireworks, and hoping nothing seriously goes wrong. I don't think they have the manpower or know how to stop anything serious. Also Canada is a major contributor to the fireworks. That might be a factor as well.

[Novine]

"Orchard Lake is a tiny affluent community of 2,000 folks surrounded by 150,000 much less affluent folks in Pontiac, Waterford, and Keego."

If Orchard Lake is surrounded by anything, it's surrounded by West Bloomfield. Next you'll entertain us with tales of the gangs of Sylvan Lake or the gangs of Walled Lake.

[Bham1982]

"Orchard Lake is a tiny affluent community of 2,000 folks surrounded by 150,000 much less affluent folks in Pontiac, Waterford, and Keego."

If Orchard Lake is surrounded by anything, it's surrounded by West Bloomfield. Next you'll entertain us with tales of the gangs of Sylvan Lake or the gangs of Walled Lake.

Except I didn't even allude to gangs. I said the area wasn't affluent, and was adjacent to rougher areas, which is true.

[aj3647]

As someone who works in law enforcement and has worked a number of church festivals, I can say you are mistaken. Regular duty officers don't work festivals/carnivals. It's reserve officers that work these events.

Westland PD does not have a reserve or auxiliary unit, at least not one that I can find any information about on the internet. So if Westland PD wants to put more officers at the festival, that means more overtime or fewer guys out on the streets.

[Newdetroit]

Orchard Lake is one of the most affluent areas! Secondly, people from the hood of Pontiac never come to Orchard Lake and it is further away than Bloomfield hills and Bloomfield township etc. The people who come to St. Mary's Fair generally are from West Bloomfield, Farmington Hills, Keego Harbor, Commerce Township, Bloomfield and Birmingham areas. All upper middle class areas [[except keego harbor) I have overheard people saying that these gangs are the result of the influx of Detroiters who have moved into West Bloomfield and Farmington Hills during the last decade as this is a recent phenomenon. .....not people from Pontiac.

[aj3647]

Secondly, people from the hood of Pontiac never come to Orchard Lake and it is further away than Bloomfield hills and Bloomfield township etc. The people who come to St. Mary's Fair generally are from West Bloomfield, Farmington Hills, Keego Harbor, Commerce Township, Bloomfield and Birmingham areas. All upper middle class areas [[except keego harbor) I have overheard people saying that these gangs are the result of the influx of Detroiters who have moved into West Bloomfield and Farmington Hills during the last decade as this is a recent phenomenon. .....not people from Pontiac.

And you know all of this because you did an exhaustive survey of the festival attendees and asked them where they lived?

[Zacha341]

Are we really talking here solely about GANGS per se or 'groups' of teens that facebook and instagram each other to go to a given place to hang and act out?

"Orchard Lake is a tiny affluent community of 2,000 folks surrounded by 150,000 much less affluent folks in Pontiac, Waterford, and Keego."

If Orchard Lake is surrounded by anything, it's surrounded by West Bloomfield. Next you'll entertain us with tales of the gangs of Sylvan Lake or the gangs of Walled Lake.

[Newdetroit]

And you know all of this because you did an exhaustive survey of the festival attendees and asked them where they lived?

No, I spoke to people who knew which high school most of the trouble makers went to. West Bloomfield High, Harrison, and North Farmington. Also, most of the people referred to in the "gangs" are black youth. I have lived in the area for 40 years and have attended this festival for the last 25 years. Pontiac has historically had a large black population for the last 25 years. It has only been in the last 5 years that more black youths are attending this fair. So I highly doubt the Pontiac black youth just found out about it and decided to start coming to the fair.

From 2000 to 2010, the black population of Farmington Hills grew from 7% to 18% and in West Bloomfield grew from 5% to 12%. During the same period, attendance of black youths increased at the fair. These two cities will become the next Oak Park and Southfield in the next 20 years as more whites will move.

[compn]

keego harbor is less rich [[oops, i mean affluent) than surrounding areas.

these are from the 2000 census. the 2010 census blurb didnt have this info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keego_Harbor,_Michigan
The median income for a household in the city was $46,552

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchard...lage,_Michigan
The median income for a household in the city was $121,126
whoa!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvan_Lake,_Michigan
The median income for a household in the city was $71,875

[Danny]

Last year carnival by Westland Mall was gang related. Fighting for control in that area or areas in their territories. This was 2 rival black gangs. Cliques from Inkster and Detroit. A way to start a gang war for their trend is set it off in the suburban festivities. If you want a safe festival go be these rules: 1. Ban anyone who wear gang colors and wearing saging pants and shirts: 2. Commit security for weapons check. 3. Have more illusionized security.

[rex]

cold hard streets of orchard lake. Its easy to understand why those kids need gangs. Times is tough and corners need protectin.

[Hermod]

3. Have more illusionized security.

Ummmmmm, in English, please.

[compn]

i think he means more 'police presence'.
a few cop cars parked where the gangs of youths get together for a fight.

its strange in this thread people are talking about not having the resources to put a cop at the fair. there are desk cops that can put on uniforms and patrol the carnival. it doesnt have to be a beat cop. it can be sargeants and chiefs even.

having fire fighters + truck would be more presence to dissuade roudy people as well.
theres even all that free federal homeland security budget for securing public gatherings.

what we should be concerned about is those racist protesters from florida that wanted to disrupt the arab american festival in dearborn. now they cancelled that festival since they cant legally ban the protesters from protesting.

why is a westland / orchard lake thread doing in the detroit section anyways? haha

[SWMAP]

The young man arrested in the Orchard Lake carnival incident was a long way from home. He is described as having hos home in detroit.
As far as "protesters" at the Dearborn event- I think you have conflated two sets of people. As has been established in court, the Dearborn police incorrectly arrested Citizens who were proselitizing for Christianity at the Dearborn Arab Festival. I don't believe that there was any protest involved. I don't think they are from Florida.
What was involved was that the festival organizers didn't want to honor their free speech rights and they were arrested.
There is quite a body of law about the right of American citizens to speak about whatever they like in "the public square"- which Warren Ave. certainly is.

[DetroitPlanner]

I guess I will think twice when I try to the fill the balloon with the water gun game and instead of shooting at the clown's mouth I would shoot at the baggy pants kids. Figuring he was a bigger clown.

[compn]

Terry Jones, a Christian pastor from Gainesville, Fla., announced Friday that he and his group, Stand Up America! will be returning to Dearborn on June 14 to protest the annual Arab International Festival.

http://dearborn.patch.com/groups/edi...-int0de661e2fa

The controversial Qur'an-burning pastor gained notoriety in the city after staging an anti-Islam rally outside of Edsel Ford High School in October 2012.

i remember the police having to come in to fence off everybody last year. didnt they also protest a mosque on mich ave? or they were going to before the city stepped in? i dont know.

dont get me wrong. i support everyones right to free speech and free assembly.
you're also free to burn all the books you want, but then i'm going to call you a bookburning nazi.

[SWMAP]

That minister Terry Jones, was not at the festival last year. He was near the mosque on Ford Rd. On anothe ocassion. I think it may have been Good Friday. He was trying to get on private property to denounce the muslim faith. That's why he was barred and dragged into court.
At the festival, It was another group, that got a formal apology. They proved [[think) that they were promoting Christianity with lierature and nothing more- although I grant that they chose a confrontational venue and that certainly calls the true motive into question.
Maybe the Terry Jones' plans to go to the Festival this year tipped it over.
Anyway, Dearborn has a job cut out for it, balancing all these rights.

[Gannon]

I think everyone is forgetting the gestapo tactics the police used to corral and ship off everyone who was ignorant of the quick curfew city council rushed through a few weeks before the fireworks last year.

I was a few stories directly above all that at Woodward and Jefferson...it was unreal to witness. Totally unfair to MOST who were caught up in it, because they were all bussed down to the precinct in the SouthWest...well after most of the bus lines had shut down. A good number of children spent the night in jail.

Every community has ways of calculating the worth of cancelling an event...or upping the security. But every one who has horses always brings them out, without anyone truly realizing they are a show of force, not friendly PR. Crowd control.

[Honky Tonk]

I think everyone is forgetting the gestapo tactics the police used to corral and ship off everyone who was ignorant of the quick curfew city council rushed through a few weeks before the fireworks last year.

I was a few stories directly above all that at Woodward and Jefferson...it was unreal to witness. Totally unfair to MOST who were caught up in it, because they were all bussed down to the precinct in the SouthWest...well after most of the bus lines had shut down. A good number of children spent the night in jail.

Every community has ways of calculating the worth of cancelling an event...or upping the security. But every one who has horses always brings them out, without anyone truly realizing they are a show of force, not friendly PR. Crowd control.

You can rationalize this all you want, but one thing's for sure, a lot of people won't be attending these events because of these "children". You know, the ones posing with 45 automatics and assault rifles, threatening others with harm @ the events. The ones that get their kicks blowing someone away and watching them die over BS.

[Danny]

Ummmmmm, in English, please.

I mean
Illusion security!

[brougham]

I live in Westland, I understand why they want to do this since there have been problems before this years gang issue, the last few years at Westlands festivals/carnivals, a shooting, a stabbbing and last year a young child was messed with. Maybe they can regulate hours of operation and required security as an alternative to completely shutting them down.

[noise]

With effective parenting, you wouldn't have to.

You've solved the problem. We no longer need police. Thank you.

[Honky Tonk]

You've solved the problem. We no longer need police. Thank you.

Why don't you change your handle to "Much ado about nothing", or "I don't get it"?

[noise]

Why don't you change your handle to "Much ado about nothing", or "I don't get it"?

I don't want to steal your thunder.