Report: Pulte HQ Bailing out of Detroit

[313WX]

and yet Atlanta leads the nation in % of poverty based in its suburbs
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So what?

Detroit leads the nation in % of poverty based in its city proper.

[nain rouge]

Atlanta is unique in that it has a population of 430,000 with a metro population greater than Detroit.

[Brian1979]

It sucks their leaving - make no mistake about it - but it's the CEO's personal affinity for Atlanta [[the Detroit of the South) and nothing more. There was nothing Detroit could do to keep them. It wasn't motivated by anything other than Dick Jr [[what a name for a CEO) wanted to get back to Atlanta where his family is [[he used to be CEO of their Atlanta region). Personal greed, pure and simple, at the expense of everyone else. We should be glad Gilbert called him, and the board, out for what they are. Spineless. That's Gilbert sticking up for this hometown pride - not being nasty.

Gilbert has no business even commenting on this, if a busness wants to relocate that is their business, why should we be glad that Gilbert made himself look like a child?

[Brian1979]

Atlanta's population density is 3,188 per square mile. I'd say that's pretty spread out, Detroit's density is pretty close to double that. Both cities roughtly have the same land area, Detroit with 139 square miles and Atlanta with 131 square miles.

[Honky Tonk]

Atlanta's population density is 3,188 per square mile. I'd say that's pretty spread out, Detroit's density is pretty close to double that. Both cities roughtly have the same land area, Detroit with 139 square miles and Atlanta with 131 square miles.

Atlanta has their shit together, Detroit does not. That's the story.

[Honky Tonk]

Don't forget, we spent millions more and scored a Mai-yer as well.

Well there you go. Atlanta spends money and draws corporate headquarters, Detroit spends money and draws supermarkets. Maybe that could be Detroit's logo? "Move to Detroit, we have lettuce."

[Zacha341]

We actually have lettuce? Finally! It's about time... the dark green stuff or just iceburg?

[DTWflyer]

For one to recognize why Atlanta is successful at attracting corporate headquarters and that is has a thriving business community, you need to step out of the Detroit-yes / urban living mind-set.

Atlanta is successful because it has an excellent business climate, good housing stock, and in the minds of people seeking corporate jobs - a desirable place to live. It may not be desirable for everyone, it is may not be desirable for those seeking a true urban living experience, but companies love it and so do the corporate drones who work for at those places. There are a lot of people who like suburban living, big new houses, and the rat-race. You and I may not, but these people do.

There is a sizable number of people who will transplant anywhere for work, or the opportunity to move up the corporate ladder.

Atlanta is at the size where it feeds on itself, as the business community is large, it continues to attract more. The job opportunities are there and they can easily recruit people to come to Atlanta. It is easy for easier for spouces to find jobs if one accepts a transfer position. You have a number of universities in the Southeast that pump out grads and Atlanta is the main employment center for the entire region.

You are a few hour drive to the coast, and a few hours to the mountains. Essentially no winter/snow [[expect about 2 years ago). Large global airline hub that can get you anywhere in the world for business or pleasure.

This type of living is desirable for many and as it is right now, Metro Detroit cannot even compare to Atlanta for growth and attracting non-automotive business.

[Honky Tonk]

We actually have lettuce? Finally! It's about time... the dark green stuff or just iceburg?

Just Iceberg. It's best to get into these kinds of things slowly.

[Bham1982]

Essentially no winter/snow [[expect about 2 years ago).

I generally agree with everything you said except for this. Atlanta gets snow every winter, and has consistently cold weather [[below freezing) every winter.

Atlanta would be a very poor choice to escape winters. It's winter weather is much closer to that of, say, Washington, DC than compared to the more low-lying coastal cities in the South. You need to get south of Orlando to really escape winter. Atlanta is well inland, and up in the hills, close to Tennessee.

[Trumpeteer]

Not accurate in that we had no measurable snow last winter just a few flurries. We also do not have "consistently cold weather [[below freezing) every winter". Does it get below freezin? Absolutely but not for any length of time. In fact we were out on our deck boat early last November in shorts and T's.

Atlanta is also not "up in the hills" as the hills don't even begin until you get into the northern burbs such as Cherokee or Hall Counties specifically which is 30+ miles from Atlanta proper.

[Bham1982]

Not accurate in that we had no measurable snow last winter just a few flurries. We also do not have "consistently cold weather [[below freezing) every winter". Does it get below freezin? Absolutely but not for any length of time. In fact we were out on our deck boat early last November in shorts and T's.

Atlanta is also not "up in the hills" as the hills don't even begin until you get into the northern burbs such as Cherokee or Hall Counties specifically which is 30+ miles from Atlanta proper.

Atlanta is up in the hills, does get below freezing temp, and does get snow. Stop with the ridiculous nit-picking already. No, it isn't in the mountains, and no, it isn't as cold as Detroit. But it would certainly be a odd choice to escape winter weather.

And, no, one winter doesn't constitute a climate. Atlanta gets snow every single winter, including last year's ridiculously mild winter.

[DTWflyer]

I generally agree with everything you said except for this. Atlanta gets snow every winter, and has consistently cold weather [[below freezing) every winter.

Atlanta would be a very poor choice to escape winters. It's winter weather is much closer to that of, say, Washington, DC than compared to the more low-lying coastal cities in the South. You need to get south of Orlando to really escape winter. Atlanta is well inland, and up in the hills, close to Tennessee.

True, ATL winter is not like northern cities but not like Florida either. I don't mean "no winter" at all, but the depth of ATL winter is really no worse than a typical November here in Michigan. The point still stands, that ATL is a good place for those who do not want the endless months of cold, gloom, snow/slush, and having to bundle-up like we do in Michigan. They can tolerate a handful of days or a few weeks, but not the 5 months that we can get here.

ATL's average highs in the middle of winter only get as low as about 50 degrees, with average lows around freezing. That being an average, there always are periods of below average temps every winter [[an average temp is just that - an average) where ATL get sustained cold temps, and periodic snow. It is generally short lived and the snow is usually on there for a day or two.

They have a much longer tail of "comfortable weather" in the spring/fall months down there which can be highly appealing for many, even if mid-summer is miserable. November, March, and April are great months in Atlanta weather-wise where here - not so much.

[rb336]

Atlanta is unique in that it has a population of 430,000 with a metro population greater than Detroit.

Atlanta's "metro area" extends into Alabama - almost 90 miles through a nearly exclusively rural area. No matter how the census bureau defines it, it ends up fairly arbitrary. if you use the same geographical area around Detroit, Detroit is bigger

[rb336]

So what?

Detroit leads the nation in % of poverty based in its city proper.

Simple, it's for the "Atlanta has its shit together" crowd. no, it doesn't. It just offers big bribes to companies to stay there. It kills me when people say "x is great and has its shit together and that is why it is doing so well." 9 times out of 10, that x has higher poverty rates, high illiteracy rates, high infant mortality rates, etc. Yes, Michigan has some of those problems too, just pointing out that "good business climate" doesn't translate into getting rid of those problems. Also just as an aside, Michigan has done worse attracting new businesses under Snyder's "business friendly" republican government than it did under his predecessor.

[Honky Tonk]

Simple, it's for the "Atlanta has its shit together" crowd. no, it doesn't. It just offers big bribes to companies to stay there. It kills me when people say "x is great and has its shit together and that is why it is doing so well." 9 times out of 10, that x has higher poverty rates, high illiteracy rates, high infant mortality rates, etc. Yes, Michigan has some of those problems too, just pointing out that "good business climate" doesn't translate into getting rid of those problems. Also just as an aside, Michigan has done worse attracting new businesses under Snyder's "business friendly" republican government than it did under his predecessor.

Don't forget to read the posts about spending millions and attacting 2 grocery stores. But I'm sure that's offset by the $114 mil pissed away on the new jail.

[nain rouge]

What did Atlanta do to you guys, steal your girlfriends? The jealousy here is rich. Atlanta has better weather, a higher GDP, a higher metro population, and serves as a headquarters for a slew of companies that are arguably more relevant to the modern world than the Big 3 [[Turner, CNN, Coca-Cola, The Home Depot, etc.) In fact, if you look at the employment stats, we're still scarily reliant on the Big 3 [[two of which very nearly went bankrupt!) and the US government for jobs.

But so what? What are you going to do about it?

[313WX]

Atlanta's "metro area" extends into Alabama - almost 90 miles through a nearly exclusively rural area. No matter how the census bureau defines it, it ends up fairly arbitrary. if you use the same geographical area around Detroit, Detroit is bigger

That's because a sizable number of people from Alabama commute into Atlanta proper for work.

That seems pretty cut and dry to me.

[313WX]

Simple, it's for the "Atlanta has its shit together" crowd. no, it doesn't. It just offers big bribes to companies to stay there. It kills me when people say "x is great and has its shit together and that is why it is doing so well." 9 times out of 10, that x has higher poverty rates, high illiteracy rates, high infant mortality rates, etc. Yes, Michigan has some of those problems too, just pointing out that "good business climate" doesn't translate into getting rid of those problems. Also just as an aside, Michigan has done worse attracting new businesses under Snyder's "business friendly" republican government than it did under his predecessor.

No one said Atlanta doesn't have its problem, but in comparison to Detroit, it does have its shit together [[no question).

The only ones who seem to be debating otherwise are those who are butthurt over the fact that Atlanta continues to grow while Detroit remains stagnant.

[Spartan]

That's because a sizable number of people from Alabama commute into Atlanta proper for work.

That seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Is the Windsor area included in Detroit metro area?

[313WX]

Is the Windsor area included in Detroit metro area?

Windsor is in a different country, so it doesn't count.

[Spartan]

Windsor is in a different country, so it doesn't count.

So it's not so cut and dry after all, then.

[313WX]

So it's not so cut and dry after all, then.

I'm not sure what you mean.

The census is based off commuting patterns within the US. Atlanta and Alabama are both within the US, Windsor is not.

[Gistok]

That's because a sizable number of people from Alabama commute into Atlanta proper for work.

That seems pretty cut and dry to me.

What is not so cut and dry is that metro Atlanta consists of 29 counties and 8,300 square miles... while metro Detroit consists of 6 counties and 3,800 square miles... BIG DIFFERENCE!!

The reason for the disparity is partly due to the fact that there are no other mid or large sized cities near Atlanta. So it cast a wider metro area net from which to draw. For Detroit, we are surrounded by other metro areas... Ann Arbor, Flint, Toledo, and yes Windsor... which never counts in any metro area figure. [[Note: Ann Arbor is not part of our MSA.)

So when you say that metro Atlanta is more populous than metro Detroit... remember to keep it in perspective... I'm sure that there are more people within a 90 mile radius of Detroit than there are within 90 miles of Atlanta... but we're not allowed to count much of it.

[DetroitPlanner]

I would include Windsor as part of Metropolitan Detroit. Our economies are intertwined [[manufacturing and medical) and Windsor shares a border with the Central City [[Detroit).